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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#361 - 2011-10-26 02:10:36 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
EVE Stig wrote:
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=4769&tid=1

huh they mention everything BUT WiS

Where do they say theyre "putting it on ice" as I keep seeing?

They usually quote this interview as their reason to fear it being put on ice.

All I see it saying is that it's going to have to wait for a bit before they get back to it.
Naradius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2011-10-26 02:14:45 UTC
If I wanted a Secondlife clone...I would have been playing...errrrrrmmmmmm...Secondlife. Fortunately, I wanted spaceships, so I played EVE.

I was convinced that CCP had taken the wrong direction with WiS, with the new NEX content announcements from CCP - they sounded camp and very gay, or if they were directed to the pre-pubescent school girl subscriber.

Now, if the NEX store content announcement had a headline like: "NEW - 2400 Gigawatt Pulse Laser Hand Gun, PLUS FREE Holster. Conveniently blast your closet neighbor in the face, with your new custom accessory. ONLY AVAILABLE FROM YOUR LOCAL NEX STORE!!"...then I may have had more confidence in the direction CCP were going.

Whatever, there is no excuse for the neglect that FiS has received over the last couple of years...I'm glad that CCP has realised that Smile

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - Douglas Adams
Naradius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2011-10-26 02:23:36 UTC
Che Biko wrote:

The only things I didn't like was sadly the stuff CCP put into CQ: the NEX prices, and the fact that entering CQ was mandatory.


That just about sums up the complete content of the whole expansion...agreed - a complete and utter disappointment. The Incarna expansions should (and probably will) be scrubbed from EVE history. No...in fact it should be raised as a Totem inside CCP offices as a reminder of what a truly great ****-up looks like.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - Douglas Adams
Bomberlocks
Bombercorp
#364 - 2011-10-26 02:25:12 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Reading the CCP CEO interview I was taken by this comment.

"but the voice of the community is quite clear. People want more spaceships, and more flying in space features. That's very much what we are responding to. "

I don't agree, we certainly do want FiS but that doesn't mean we don't wasn more WiS. I think a lot of us do! And leaving WiS as single player prison cell CQ is a reminder that CCP can't keep its promises. The interview makes it clear there is no plan in the works or even being discussed to take WiS beyond the prison cell.

So if you wanted WiS please post in this thread because I think a lot of us want CCP to deliver more of what they have promised use for years now.

DO NOT ABANDON WiS!!
LET US OUT THAT DOOR!!!!

Issler
Issler, it's nice that the hisec crowd have a voice in the form of your person, but unless you've been living under a particularly large rock, you may have noticed EVE's subs slipping by about 20% since last december and around 8% since June, when The Door(TM) was released. If CCP had continued working on Beyond The Door(TM), there's a very good chance that CCP would have gone down as a company by next year.

If and when CCP manages to get all the stuff released that they've currently announced, and it's a LOT of stuff, as well as having finally iterated on and fixed nullsec, losec and FW, then I think there'll be leeway from the portion of the players who quit over The Door(TM).

--Bomb
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#365 - 2011-10-26 02:40:56 UTC
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:
non judgement wrote:
EVE Stig wrote:
(lol I cant link it without getting the BBC error)

huh they mention everything BUT WiS

Where do they say theyre "putting it on ice" as I keep seeing?

They usually quote this interview as their reason to fear it being put on ice.

All I see it saying is that it's going to have to wait for a bit before they get back to it.


I dont even see them mentioning walking in stations


So you didn't see this part of it?

Quote:
Eurogamer: Regarding Incarna, we were expecting to have the other Captain's Quarters by now, along with the first steps towards station Establishments. Is there still a development roadmap for Incarna?

Hilmar Pétursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed. It also includes some optimisations and other fixes. I think the community has spoken loud and clear that they want more classical Eve features to come out, and that's the priority for us. Incarna is there, and we might pick it up at some point later down the line, but the voice of the community is quite clear. People want more spaceships, and more flying in space features. That's very much what we are responding to.

Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#366 - 2011-10-26 02:46:54 UTC
Quote:
Hilmar Pétursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed.


Especially the latter part of that sentence is distressing (emphasis mine). In other words: we're only releasing a bit of more Incarna because we had it finished already, and not because we plan to actually work on it some more.

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#367 - 2011-10-26 03:05:17 UTC
Ranka Mei wrote:
Quote:
Hilmar Pétursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed.

Especially the latter part of that sentence is distressing (emphasis mine). In other words: we're only releasing a bit of more Incarna because we had it finished already, and not because we plan to actually work on it some more.


On the upside, I just realize, he is saying that he's releasing the new quarters this year. Of course, the man's made promises before, LOL; but let's hope he keeps this one. And if it's true, then, who knows, maybe we'll get the entire Winter expansion this year (as that's the logical inference of the above).

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP
Flamespar
WarRavens
#368 - 2011-10-26 03:23:41 UTC
Ranka Mei wrote:
Ranka Mei wrote:
Quote:
Hilmar Pétursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed.

Especially the latter part of that sentence is distressing (emphasis mine). In other words: we're only releasing a bit of more Incarna because we had it finished already, and not because we plan to actually work on it some more.


On the upside, I just realize, he is saying that he's releasing the new quarters this year. Of course, the man's made promises before, LOL; but let's hope he keeps this one. And if it's true, then, who knows, maybe we'll get the entire Winter expansion this year (as that's the logical inference of the above).


Personally I think it sounds like they are trying to distance themselves from Incarna by implying that minimal work is being done on it.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#369 - 2011-10-26 03:27:57 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Ranka Mei wrote:
Ranka Mei wrote:
Quote:
Hilmar Pétursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed.

Especially the latter part of that sentence is distressing (emphasis mine). In other words: we're only releasing a bit of more Incarna because we had it finished already, and not because we plan to actually work on it some more.


On the upside, I just realize, he is saying that he's releasing the new quarters this year. Of course, the man's made promises before, LOL; but let's hope he keeps this one. And if it's true, then, who knows, maybe we'll get the entire Winter expansion this year (as that's the logical inference of the above).


Personally I think it sounds like they are trying to distance themselves from Incarna by implying that minimal work is being done on it.

I agree.

I also see this part of his comments:
Quote:
Incarna is there, and we might pick it up at some point later down the line

and it makes me think they'll continue it later. I think they are just going to wait until the heat has died down a bit first.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#370 - 2011-10-26 03:30:55 UTC
Walking in stations - since it is doomed to have no combat due to dust - is considered a minor side show. Stopping basically all work on eve for 18 months to work on "walking in stations" was a huge mistake. I think CCP can see that now.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Elyssa MacLeod
Doomheim
#371 - 2011-10-26 03:38:25 UTC
non judgement wrote:


I also see this part of his comments:
Quote:
Incarna is there, and we might pick it up at some point later down the line

and it makes me think they'll continue it later. I think they are just going to wait until the heat has died down a bit first.


The "might" qualifier should be pointed out here. That way if they dont come back to it, they can say they never said they WOULD

GM Homonoia: Suicide ganks are a valid and viable tactic in EVE.

Where is your God now carebear?
Flamespar
WarRavens
#372 - 2011-10-26 03:51:57 UTC
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:

The "might" qualifier should be pointed out here. That way if they dont come back to it, they can say they never said they WOULD


Which is exactly why players are pissed. We have no idea if Incarna will ever be finished because of his language.

Personally I think they should just come clean and say something like.

Winter 2011 expansion: Space stuff and remaining captains quarters
Summer 2012 Expansion: Null sec revamp and Dust
Winter 2012 Expansion: Multiplayer establishments plus cool space stuff and t3 frigates

At least this way we know it's coming, and have broad understanding of when. Instead of this endless "wait and see" nonsense.
Elyssa MacLeod
Doomheim
#373 - 2011-10-26 04:04:31 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Elyssa MacLeod wrote:

The "might" qualifier should be pointed out here. That way if they dont come back to it, they can say they never said they WOULD


Which is exactly why players are pissed. We have no idea if Incarna will ever be finished because of his language.

Personally I think they should just come clean and say something like.

Winter 2011 expansion: Space stuff and remaining captains quarters
Summer 2012 Expansion: Null sec revamp and Dust
Winter 2012 Expansion: Multiplayer establishments plus cool space stuff and t3 frigates

At least this way we know it's coming, and have broad understanding of when. Instead of this endless "wait and see" nonsense.


I doubt youll get it. They want ppl to hang in ther e and keep subbing. If they tell you its unlikely they are going to return to it, what do you think will happen? And if they say they are going to return to it and then dont, what do you think will happen?

GM Homonoia: Suicide ganks are a valid and viable tactic in EVE.

Where is your God now carebear?
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#374 - 2011-10-26 04:40:40 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:

Taking all the devs but six from EVE and putting them on other projects is what caused serious damage to EVE to be honest. Along with splitting their focus across DUST, and WoD/Incarna (because they are linked). Focussing BACK on EVE (where it never should have left) and fixing/finishing those unfinished projects is what they need to do imo. AFTER THAT they can work on your precious WiS IF it doesnt bleed resources from EVE or damage the company.


Totally correct, spot-on. WiS should be a distant thought until FiS has had all it's fixes and new FiS-related game content. History should be good at teaching lessons, lessons based on mistakes are the best lessons learnt. CCP know that now, so give them a decent chance to focus and deliver FiS.

No need to keeping kicking a dead horse. It's down for now, wait for the fresh new filly after FiS updates.
Repeatedly posting about WiS now is just a waste of forum space.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Flamespar
WarRavens
#375 - 2011-10-26 05:14:09 UTC
My final solution.

CCP releases Dev blog on the fate or death of Incarna.

People return to their lives.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#376 - 2011-10-26 05:15:42 UTC
Agreed on the trolling, and yes these same points keep being brought up as new folks chime in.

As for the comment that WIS should be a distant thought for now, I can't get behind that one.

No offense, but I think now is the time for a small group of content designers to be thinking seriously about what the game plan (and game play) is going to be once they get to the point where they can think about starting work with it again.

I'm not talking a massive team, just those that specialize in the broad strokes... taking some time over the next few months to get their head around the concepts discussed in this thread and others... and figure out how to get things moving in the right direction without shooting themselves (and EVE's core game play) in the foot again.

They seriously need to set up a white board like they did for organizing their thoughts on the purpose and organization of Null Sec and establish some guidelines and goals, and define the lines they should never cross again.

I think this thread did serve a purpose, trolls aside. People on both sides of the debate found a bit of common ground, and most have acknowledged the sane points that were made on both sides.

That's pretty rare on this forum.

And perhaps, if/when WIS is looked at again in the future, this thread might just have some influence on the decisions that will be made. Anything that can help CCP to avoid causing anger on one side and disappointment on the other is a plus, however it turns out.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#377 - 2011-10-26 07:31:02 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Agreed on the trolling, and yes these same points keep being brought up as new folks chime in.

As for the comment that WIS should be a distant thought for now, I can't get behind that one.

No offense, but I think now is the time for a small group of content designers to be thinking seriously about what the game plan (and game play) is going to be once they get to the point where they can think about starting work with it again.

I'm not talking a massive team, just those that specialize in the broad strokes... taking some time over the next few months to get their head around the concepts discussed in this thread and others... and figure out how to get things moving in the right direction without shooting themselves (and EVE's core game play) in the foot again.

They seriously need to set up a white board like they did for organizing their thoughts on the purpose and organization of Null Sec and establish some guidelines and goals, and define the lines they should never cross again.

I think this thread did serve a purpose, trolls aside. People on both sides of the debate found a bit of common ground, and most have acknowledged the sane points that were made on both sides.

That's pretty rare on this forum.

And perhaps, if/when WIS is looked at again in the future, this thread might just have some influence on the decisions that will be made. Anything that can help CCP to avoid causing anger on one side and disappointment on the other is a plus, however it turns out.


You know, I'm not opposed to your proposal at all. As people probably know by now my personal opposition to Incarna is NeX/MT + bad engine + no content.

If they have a tight group of designers go back and look at it again and perhaps base a redesign around a licensed unreal engine (to solve the performance/scaleability issue) - look for some genuine content (perhaps via crowdsourcing/focus groups/simple community polling) and ensure this content is delivered through player led industry (built by players for players) and there is no trace whatsoever of NeX/MT in the scheme then I for one could get behind some Incarna development in the medium term.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#378 - 2011-10-26 08:37:50 UTC
QwaarJet wrote:
I never had any wish for WiS. Do not presume to speak for me Issler. If you did a community wide pole I guarantee that the majority would be against WiS. I hope it gets ditched completely.


I certainly never claimed to speak for you , whoever the "F" you are. I do see more folks in this thread for it than not, so go find someone else to wrongly claim is putting words in your virtual mouth on these forums.

A lot of folks want to have ambulation, at one time it seemed that CCP did too. WiS DOES NOT have to be tied to vampires, CCP could have decided to focus WoD resources on WiS which I think would make a lot of folks here in Eve happy.

So no idea what your post was intended to accomplish other than making the false claim I am trying to speak for folks that don't want WiS, I am trying to get other folks that want WiS to speak for themselves. This thread shows those folks exist.

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#379 - 2011-10-26 09:05:47 UTC
Bomberlocks wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Reading the CCP CEO interview I was taken by this comment.

"but the voice of the community is quite clear. People want more spaceships, and more flying in space features. That's very much what we are responding to. "

I don't agree, we certainly do want FiS but that doesn't mean we don't wasn more WiS. I think a lot of us do! And leaving WiS as single player prison cell CQ is a reminder that CCP can't keep its promises. The interview makes it clear there is no plan in the works or even being discussed to take WiS beyond the prison cell.

So if you wanted WiS please post in this thread because I think a lot of us want CCP to deliver more of what they have promised use for years now.

DO NOT ABANDON WiS!!
LET US OUT THAT DOOR!!!!

Issler
Issler, it's nice that the hisec crowd have a voice in the form of your person, but unless you've been living under a particularly large rock, you may have noticed EVE's subs slipping by about 20% since last december and around 8% since June, when The Door(TM) was released. If CCP had continued working on Beyond The Door(TM), there's a very good chance that CCP would have gone down as a company by next year.

If and when CCP manages to get all the stuff released that they've currently announced, and it's a LOT of stuff, as well as having finally iterated on and fixed nullsec, losec and FW, then I think there'll be leeway from the portion of the players who quit over The Door(TM).

--Bomb


So Simple correction. While I might seem to be a "high sec" representative, that is not all that I am. I am one of the rare low sec dwellers. I know, a care bear low sec-er!!! How can that be?? I've been playing this as my main game for 7 years and have multiple accounts, I've been in the CSM twice, have caps of my own, lived in low sec, been part of two of the biggest null sec alliances to date. Other than building my own outpost (which I consider my personal end game) there isn't much in Eve I haven't done. I'm even one of the dozen or so people that have made Eve news make the main steam press. I'm not pointing that out for my ego, personally I wish the two incidents that made that happen wouldn't have. I'm just saying I know a little about Eve.

What I have chosen over the last couple of years would be to build what most folks would call a care bear alliance. I don't know why but that sort of cat herding is what I seem to enjoy the most. I continue to fight to try an create something in Eve that shows folks not falling into the easy path of finding your inner asshat you can act in a friendly and helpful way to other folks in Eve. Basically I'm one of the minority that still tries to live by NRDS. Can't say I always have success but I think in a lot of ways what I'm trying to accomplish is every bit has hard as 0.0 sov. Maybe, maybe not, but Eve is all about finding what YOU want to focus your time on.

So I started this thread after seeing player after player get tired of the limits of the pod and ships as the only part of the SciFi sim they thought they signed up for. I saw a lot of ex players come back when what CCP tried to pass off as Incarna was released. Very few stayed, not because there wasn't enough FiS, they left because they saw that CCP lied about ambulation and clearly was using Eve to pay for WoD and Dust. They left because they realized CCP was more interested in squeezing more cash from us in the NeX store than delivering the WiS experience that they have teased us with for nearly 5 years.

So as a person that I think I could make a case for that has committed more to Eve that 90% of the other players I believe the future success of Eve depends on showing us that this is a SciFi simulator and not just more ships of different sizes 'sploding each other in space. I firmly believe WiS needs to happen to save Eve because without it the player base will never grow beyond the peaks it has seen before.

I share that thought in these forums but when you characterize me or what I am trying to accomplish in this discussion please make sure you know of what you speak.

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#380 - 2011-10-26 09:23:18 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


I think this thread did serve a purpose, trolls aside. People on both sides of the debate found a bit of common ground, and most have acknowledged the sane points that were made on both sides.


I think this thread only served to highlight the number of male players out there that wanted to play with Barbie dolls than GI Joe when they were young but couldn't because of (sadly) expectations and established gender roles.

What's next? A lot of male players that wish that they could get pregnant?


Not a male player and grew up with barbie dolls, certainly not what I think of when I think of what WiS should be. In fact until we get on the other side of the door all Incarna is is a Barbie simulator.

What this thread did show is how many folks don't have the slightest idea of where RP fits in MMOs and how badly CCP has failed to support that in Eve. How something as simple as WiS with a corp meeting room, an NPC in a recruiting office or as a mission agent or a bar to gather in would make Eve 10000% more immersive.

Some folks like to say such intellectually impressive comments like "go back to wow!" but I don't see Blizzard laying off 20% of their staff. Fact is Eve can make FiS 500% better and without WiS it stays a niche game and CCP will slowly die on the vine or eventually find a game that can appeal to a broader audience and Eve dies anyways.

Issler