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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Ai Shun
#3561 - 2012-03-12 18:03:56 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
There is an easy way for us to show CCP how many players want Wis work and how many do not.

All those who want WiS work: Keep your CQ turned on. Spread the word to others who do not read the forums. CCP knows how many players have it on so this will give them a direct measure of WiS interest.


It would certainly be an easy way to get a skewed result that favours our position, yes. I can completely see why you would want it that way.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3562 - 2012-03-12 20:34:06 UTC
If this isn't already the case then the anti WiS players should just shut the **** up now. If I didn't like WiS, I wouldn't run it at all.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Scitor Nantom
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3563 - 2012-03-12 20:42:02 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


Work on the plan, not the product at this point.


I disagree. I like agile development:

Quote:
The Agile Manifesto reads, in its entirety, as follows:[1]

We are uncovering better ways of developing software by doing it and helping others do it. Through this work we have come to value:

Individuals and interactions over processes and tools
Working software over comprehensive documentation
Customer collaboration over contract negotiation
Responding to change over following a plan
That is, while there is value in the items on the right, we value the items on the left more.


FiS is great, but WiS pulls it all together and creates immersion. I can see all of this as modular based on logical structure design of stations.

1st, create fully fleshed Captains Quarters
2nd, create fully fleshed main open air station areas
3rd, create fully fleshed bars, shops, etc. with games, gambling games, entertainment, etc.
4th, add more features to all of this and possibly implement other interesting things within station that correspond to New Eden lore

I'm all in for WiS. Maybe we can eventually shoot people in the face... in stations. Just throwing this out:

I'd love for a way for a pilot to come out of capsule in a suit, spacewalk to a titan (or other ship), find a way in, take out guards, etc, but sneak their way to either the pilot or engine and take him or the engine out via sabotage.

Ai Shun
#3564 - 2012-03-12 20:46:45 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
If this isn't already the case then the anti WiS players should just shut the **** up now. If I didn't like WiS, I wouldn't run it at all.


Are you really so stupid that you think other paying customers should refrain from voicing their opinion just because they disagree with you?

Really?

Do you not see those who dislike WiS could turn around as easily and say:

Quote:
If this isn't already the case then the anti FiS players should just shut the **** up now. If I didn't like FiS, I wouldn't run it at all.


And that would be dumb. Very, very dumb. Try to have a constructive debate and ignore the ones that are not constructive.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3565 - 2012-03-12 23:32:24 UTC
I think you missed the point of my post entirely.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Aquila Draco
#3566 - 2012-03-12 23:34:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquila Draco
This is just LOL... Lol

Guy thats pro WiS write lines and lines and lines of opinions and facts...
And then few anti WiS ppl comes and write one or two whole lines anty wis.
We all see now whose group have more brain and facts to sustain their opinions.
Alfred Mahan
Task Force 42
#3567 - 2012-03-13 11:27:04 UTC
Scitor Nantom wrote:


Agile manifesto quote goes here



That manifesto is getting a little old. It's all about delivering value to customers early and often. No more, no less.
Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3568 - 2012-03-13 12:42:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Elanor Vega
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:


How you ppl can not understand... there is no EVE or WoD of DUST...
There is only CCP - the development studio.
They use tech they have or can buy for what ever they think will gain them more money.
All avatar and indor graphic is made for WoD and EVE have free tech that EVE would not got on its own. Its too $$$ tech to develop so that its only used for old game.
Yea... we must realize that -> EVE is old and look at other games that are old as EVE - either they are dead or there is successor on the way.
Because that EVE need something new or it will be dead.

You can say that EVE have 300.000/400.000 accounts so it can live long time with that. Well, look what you write to other players in game when they say that minerals they mine are free. OPPORTUNITY COST - if you invest your time in something and there is something that can get you more money for your time you loose money. There is moment in future when CCP will see that there is better new things to invest hundreds of devs and their time then in OLD EVE, and EVE is dead then.
You, dont letting eve to grow into the new areas to attract new players, are killing EVE. You are killing years of your time that you invested in this game. You are killing your money that you payed for game time.

There is only one direction, known to us, in which EVE can grow and that is WiS.
And there is tech being developed for other game that can make that happen.
Why are you dumb and not letting EVE to live and use that tech?
Why you want EVE dead?

And many ppl like WiS.
Many ppl want WiS.
Many ppl need WiS to play EVE.
So why not give CCP support to make EVE what they want to make from eve - Sci-Fi simulator - and make EVE Forever?

But, i know, there is small part of ppl that are afraid of new things, new ppl, new gameplay and want to things stay how they are. (And some ppl believed them in what ever they were telling them.)
But...
Well... thats impossible.
If you dont grow, you die.
Law of the stronger.


(its late here and i wrote this in half a sleep so i hope that you understand what i want to say.)


p.s.
I know that now i will be attacked my some ppl that many ppl leaved game because of WiS.
I said many times that if they have any evidence of that, show it, but they just love empty talk.
Ppl left because of golden ammo talk, but i don't have strenght to talk about that again.


... stuff ...



You have a strong point.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3569 - 2012-03-13 12:57:17 UTC
His point has pretty much been the point of every person in this thread that want's to see the fulfillment of WiS. It is the few that are afraid of change that don't understand what WiS really means to EvE and CCP. WiS, more content and new content, not just reiteration of the same space content is what is going to keep EvE going. It is not the elite, hardcore PvP players that keep EvE going. It is the Highsec dwelling, casual players that do. This is evident by the numbers alone of who is playing where. 80% of the populace is in Highsec last I checked.

Some people seem to think that what they want is what everybody wants. This is not the case. I have said this before...I have supported and even proposed ideas in the past that I don't necessarily want to see happen but because I realize that they may be what is best for CCP and EvE as a whole, I support them. I honestly don't want to see Microtransactions of any kind in EvE. This includes PLEX. But I realize that they are a necessary evil for the survival of both CCP and EvE. So I support them to an extent.

WiS is a good thing for EvE. Anything that broadens the gameplay and creates more avenues for other players to join is a good thing. Regardless of what a player is doing in the game, it is income for CCP which means more devs, which means more stuff for FiS and WiS, which means better content and more frequent content and a longer life for EvE.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3570 - 2012-03-13 16:26:54 UTC
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:

You allways forget one thing.
That 18 months was for carbonization of EVE.
That's what majority of EVE DEVs worked on.
Just look at how much of EVE code was rewritten and pushed out after that "18 months". You can see numerous bugs that appeared in all things that worked before and on the first look that did not seem like they touched it. You can see it that after "Incarna" list of CCPs technologies appeared on CCP web page all named with "Carbon" prefix. You can see it in tests of many "Carbon" things and putting it in game, like UI, like inventory, and stuff like that.
They had to rewrite 8 years of old messy python code and rewrite it in C on all crucial parts of the game because it take 10 times more time for new programmers to find head and tale in that code and to implement something.

You see how they can magically change many things over night that they could not before???
Yea, thats because of it.

Their error was that they did not tell that to player base, maybe because some ppl would quit Roll.

In that time one part of the staff worked on WiS (majority of designers) and they just didn't have time to make WiS and create what they advertise.

So please don't tell me they worked on WiS all that much.
In 2 years (after pre production) you can make all new game from nothing.



Few people have wrote similar things on this forums, and no one of haters don't want to listen.
They all "sing the same song" over and over... so, don't hold your breath that they will listen to you now.
Aquila Draco
#3571 - 2012-03-13 23:11:05 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
His point has pretty much been the point of every person in this thread that want's to see the fulfillment of WiS. It is the few that are afraid of change that don't understand what WiS really means to EvE and CCP. WiS, more content and new content, not just reiteration of the same space content is what is going to keep EvE going. It is not the elite, hardcore PvP players that keep EvE going. It is the Highsec dwelling, casual players that do. This is evident by the numbers alone of who is playing where. 80% of the populace is in Highsec last I checked.

Some people seem to think that what they want is what everybody wants. This is not the case. I have said this before...I have supported and even proposed ideas in the past that I don't necessarily want to see happen but because I realize that they may be what is best for CCP and EvE as a whole, I support them. I honestly don't want to see Microtransactions of any kind in EvE. This includes PLEX. But I realize that they are a necessary evil for the survival of both CCP and EvE. So I support them to an extent.

WiS is a good thing for EvE. Anything that broadens the gameplay and creates more avenues for other players to join is a good thing. Regardless of what a player is doing in the game, it is income for CCP which means more devs, which means more stuff for FiS and WiS, which means better content and more frequent content and a longer life for EvE.


But i can't understand that some ppl just cant (or dont want to) understand it, can't see the obvious.
It looks like some ppl want to see EVE dead.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#3572 - 2012-03-14 00:10:20 UTC
Aquila Draco wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
His point has pretty much been the point of every person in this thread that want's to see the fulfillment of WiS. It is the few that are afraid of change that don't understand what WiS really means to EvE and CCP. WiS, more content and new content, not just reiteration of the same space content is what is going to keep EvE going. It is not the elite, hardcore PvP players that keep EvE going. It is the Highsec dwelling, casual players that do. This is evident by the numbers alone of who is playing where. 80% of the populace is in Highsec last I checked.

Some people seem to think that what they want is what everybody wants. This is not the case. I have said this before...I have supported and even proposed ideas in the past that I don't necessarily want to see happen but because I realize that they may be what is best for CCP and EvE as a whole, I support them. I honestly don't want to see Microtransactions of any kind in EvE. This includes PLEX. But I realize that they are a necessary evil for the survival of both CCP and EvE. So I support them to an extent.

WiS is a good thing for EvE. Anything that broadens the gameplay and creates more avenues for other players to join is a good thing. Regardless of what a player is doing in the game, it is income for CCP which means more devs, which means more stuff for FiS and WiS, which means better content and more frequent content and a longer life for EvE.


But i can't understand that some ppl just cant (or dont want to) understand it, can't see the obvious.
It looks like some ppl want to see EVE dead.


At one time that was the stated goals of the Goons in Eve.

Issler Dainze
CSM 7 Candidate
Taiwanistan
#3573 - 2012-03-14 04:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
eve online is a complex game with great depth.
the wis i see that is wanted here is not complex nor does it have any depth

*snip* Please keep it civil. Spitfire

you want social first, gameplay second. and don't tell me you had this idea and that idea, it's all shitstupid don't quit your day jobs and try to be game dev, only team avatar can do that so give them some goddamn time.
eve online is a complex game with great depth. wis has to be the same.

and issler, funny how the goons, have quite a lot to lose in-game if the game is destroyed, in fact they've lost it all before and actually put the effort to getting it back again.

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#3574 - 2012-03-14 05:46:37 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
eve online is a complex game with great depth.
the wis i see that is wanted here is not complex nor does it have any depth
you all seem like a bunch of deviant freaks that want no more than dress up and emote each other in the corp room.
you want social first, gameplay second. and don't tell me you had this idea and that idea, it's all shitstupid don't quit your day jobs and try to be game dev, only team avatar can do that so give them some goddamn time.
eve online is a complex game with great depth. wis has to be the same.

and issler, funny how the goons, have quite a lot to lose in-game if the game is destroyed, in fact they've lost it all before and actually put the effort to getting it back again.


If you don't believe that early in the history of the goons they openly stated their goal was to ruin Eve then you need to learn your Goon history. They intended to do to Eve what they had so successfully done to other games. I'll admit these days the Goons seem to have bought into the future of Eve more that they once did.

Issler Dainze
CSM 7 Candidate
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#3575 - 2012-03-14 05:49:43 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Taiwanistan wrote:
eve online is a complex game with great depth.
the wis i see that is wanted here is not complex nor does it have any depth
you all seem like a bunch of deviant freaks that want no more than dress up and emote each other in the corp room.
you want social first, gameplay second. and don't tell me you had this idea and that idea, it's all shitstupid don't quit your day jobs and try to be game dev, only team avatar can do that so give them some goddamn time.
eve online is a complex game with great depth. wis has to be the same.

and issler, funny how the goons, have quite a lot to lose in-game if the game is destroyed, in fact they've lost it all before and actually put the effort to getting it back again.


If you don't believe that early in the history of the goons they openly stated their goal was to ruin Eve then you need to learn your Goon history. They intended to do to Eve what they had so successfully done to other games. I'll admit these days the Goons seem to have bought into the future of Eve more that they once did.

Issler Dainze
CSM 7 Candidate


I voted for your opponent.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Ai Shun
#3576 - 2012-03-14 07:24:52 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
His point has pretty much been the point of every person in this thread that want's to see the fulfillment of WiS. It is the few that are afraid of change that don't understand what WiS really means to EvE and CCP. WiS, more content and new content, not just reiteration of the same space content is what is going to keep EvE going. It is not the elite, hardcore PvP players that keep EvE going. It is the Highsec dwelling, casual players that do. This is evident by the numbers alone of who is playing where. 80% of the populace is in Highsec last I checked.

Some people seem to think that what they want is what everybody wants. This is not the case. I have said this before...I have supported and even proposed ideas in the past that I don't necessarily want to see happen but because I realize that they may be what is best for CCP and EvE as a whole, I support them. I honestly don't want to see Microtransactions of any kind in EvE. This includes PLEX. But I realize that they are a necessary evil for the survival of both CCP and EvE. So I support them to an extent.

WiS is a good thing for EvE. Anything that broadens the gameplay and creates more avenues for other players to join is a good thing. Regardless of what a player is doing in the game, it is income for CCP which means more devs, which means more stuff for FiS and WiS, which means better content and more frequent content and a longer life for EvE.


You have so many flaws in that post it is almost embarrassing to stand on the same side as you in terms of WiS.

One, 80% of the population. I believe it was closer to 60% of the population in terms of characters. Characters can belong to players that are primarily active in High-sec, low-sec or Null-sec. I hover between low/high and have trade alts (3) in each of the trade hubs I am interested in. But if I had to identify with a group, it would be low-sec. Yet, 75% of my characters ... wait ... 60% of my characters are in high-sec.

It is a dangerous thing to try and draw any conclusions from and it helps to create that concept of a divide between low, high and null sec. They're just security ratings. The game underlying, EVE Online, is still largely the same game with the same type of content. I don't see a point in splitting the population up that way and it diminishes the point for me.

You are right. Some people do seem to think that what they want is what everybody wants. Be wary of falling into the same trap; because it could be equally true for you. Are you sure what you want is what everybody wants? DMC was making an assertion that because of forum support the majority of players support WiS / Ambulation. That is pure nonsense; we simply don't know. All I know is that I support it. You support it. And a number of people that posted in this thread supports it. It discredits the point too much for me when people make that type of claim. Best to just state our opinions and desires and leave it to CCP to do what they, through their surveys and data and the guidance of our CSM, knows is what is desired by the general population. We can never know what that is until CCP releases that data. And thus far they have not.

I agree with you on anything that broadens the gameplay. It, being WiS, will create more avenues for other players to join which really is a good thing. The concepts of WiS (As discussed in this thread) is very valuable. I can see that as compelling game-play.

But now I have a question for you, because this is my pet desire for WiS.

What about making it a separate game like Dust 514?

Make it a F2P game with Aurum / similar microtransactions to fund it. Give it to a team of solid developers who can work on that project. And allow us to use our capsuleers in WiS. This to me seems like the win-win for both those who desire WiS (And quickly!) and those who want to keep FiS separate. Both development streams can continue - without affecting eachother hopefully. It seems like the best win-win to me.
ucntkilme
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3577 - 2012-03-14 07:34:03 UTC
Abandon WiS. Lets put this issue to bed and remove CQ completely.

We pay to play this game to fly SPACESHIPS not walk around a station masturbating to players portraits. I pay to play this game, to blow people up.. I pay, to get blown up... IN SPACE...

Walking In Stations was never an intended part of the game, it was CCP using it's members as guinea pigs for their 'latest and greatest endeavor' what was World of Darkness or some such like that.

So most people 'WANT' WiS? Well, i can't say what most people want, because I don't speak for others like so many on these forums do. But I can say what I want, and that's CQ to be stricken from the game permanently. WiS to be stricken from the project boards, and for everyone to quit crying because it hasn't been implemented yet.

If you want to walk around in a game that is focused around flying space ships, you need to re-think your ideas of a space game. If people really want to walk around in a game, there are plenty of games to do just that... even space games (from what i hear)... lets list some now just for you people...

World of Warcraft - yep you can walk around in this...
FlyFF - free alternative to world of warcraft - and yes you get to walk around in this too..

9dragons - made by acclaim, free -- and yep you can walk around here too...

None of these games are space games, but they give you what you want that is walking around like a rogue dumbass somewhere that no one cares you're doing it. There are plenty of space games that do offer walking around as well, though being that I don't pay to play a game to walk around -- i don't know them off the top of my head...

Keep WiS functionality to games for children -- for the people that are too scared to do anything else -- or for people who's comprehension of a game doesn't exceed that of something smiliar to WoW or FlyFF or any of the similar 'made for children' type of games...
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
#3578 - 2012-03-14 07:43:12 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
eve online is a complex game with great depth.
the wis i see that is wanted here is not complex nor does it have any depth
you all seem like a bunch of deviant freaks that want no more than dress up and emote each other in the corp room.
you want social first, gameplay second. and don't tell me you had this idea and that idea, it's all shitstupid don't quit your day jobs and try to be game dev, only team avatar can do that so give them some goddamn time.
eve online is a complex game with great depth. wis has to be the same.

You're still posting in this thread? Wow, you are really dedicated to WiS, are you Blink?

I'm with you that WiS should also be complex and have some depht like the EVE we are playing now.

But please don't hyperbolise. EVE hasn't that much depht or complexity that you are implying. In the end it's just a game like any other and people (especially your lot) are just playing it like that. Just because some peope chose this game as their hobby or some kind of lifestyle doesn't add more depht.

Also the perception what really adds "depht" can be very subjective. For example the emoting and socialising that you're so dreaded of adds more depht to the game for me. Maybe not for you, that's okay and I'm fine with that. But that's no reason to constantly insult people who don't think like you.

Please keep in mind that EVE is still a sandbox (and is stll advertised as such), which means that the game can be enjoyed by a lot of very different people who play it in very different ways. This has to create tension in some way and you can see this tension in this very forum every day. The key is to always remember that all other players are also just that. Players. Humans who just want some fun and adventure. Just because they want to enjoy their game in a different way you want to enjoy it don't makes them "freaks" or "shitstupid". So please, try to respect people who have not the same approach to this game than you have. As long as they're not violating any rules set by CCP, they have all the rights to play the game their way just like you.

And it is allowed to give feedback to the devs. No, we are not game devs and most of us (me included) certainly don't want to be one. But most of us here are just tossing around some ideas and opinions or, to be honest, more wishes what we want WiS to be. You want WiS to be something different and I respect your views and it's always nice to have the opportunity to discuss those things. Preferably without accusations, insults and trolling. By the way, this is addressed to both sides of this dispute.

I'm always baffled how some differing opinions about a simple game can upset people so much. In the end we can't do more than give feedback and wait what CCP will actually make of it. Hopefully they can find a good middle ground that you and me can live with.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#3579 - 2012-03-14 07:55:43 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
(...)

Make it a F2P game with Aurum / similar microtransactions to fund it. Give it to a team of solid developers who can work on that project. And allow us to use our capsuleers in WiS. This to me seems like the win-win for both those who desire WiS (And quickly!) and those who want to keep FiS separate. Both development streams can continue - without affecting eachother hopefully. It seems like the best win-win to me.


I can't drop my plasma rifle an jump into my BS to kick some NPC asses in DUST.Roll

If I invested years and millions of SP in EVE, if i was an industrialist/trader with billions in EVE assets, or if had roleplayed my character for years, why should I be forced to start anew in another game just to stretch my legs out of my pod, meet some friends or make some shady deal?

No deal.

BTW, albeit smarter looking, your overall point is "play my way or go away" + "mommy CCP, that's new, I scared, kill it with fire!", nonetheless.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#3580 - 2012-03-14 08:12:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Re-posting in emote starved people thread may the Walking In Space you so desperately seek bring lots of laugh and giggles for all of you seeking room crowding....in about 5 years or so.


And beside so uniquely awesome never before invented massively challenging game called a poker i think it about time to bring out heavy stuff get ready for this....facenovel!!! it is social media thingy that u can post picture of you and just be awesome like that it is just what eve needs i tell you.

So lets demand it like it is ours and make them burn another 5 years for that as well as great many talents and some cash too just sweet.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard