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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3201 - 2012-02-24 01:39:15 UTC
I find the current status of WIS is just eye candy with no function.
Tattoos sleeves are more nice eye candy but does little to encourage me buy from any Nex store.
(Though I am assuming this is work that is on the verge of completion from the previous teams.)

I would like Function
A slow progressive approach is what I would look for:

Step 1 (lmit 5 people in a room) 2012 Summer Expansion
- Able to interact with other members - (then I would buy NEX store items as people will be actively interacting with me. since I would like to be remember-able. Though currently I am just another pretty face )
--->Invite people to my CQ
--->Small Corp/Alliance Social Lounge
----> Limited Emotes,
----> Clothing Line increase by 20%
---->Access other rooms via pull down menu

Step 2 (Limit 10 in a room) 2012 Winter Expansion
-Able to interact with Meaningful mechanic
--->Able to have Bot/Avatars per-programed to sell goods to people of set standings.
---> Sell Custom Modified objects and object which have no real value beyond role play.
---->Markers like Corpes belonging to a certain alliance or book marks can be traded to bots so players can start making agent mission of their own
--->Emotes are now doubled in size
----> Clothing Line increase by 20%

Step 3 (Limit 25 in a room) 2013 Summer Expansion
- Able to use in game mechanics to socialize
--->3d Table top games as demo with the slice of the old Ambulation
--->Poker, Tattoo, Shop, Slaver Dog races or Fights.
---> Emotes increase by 25%
----> Clothing Line increase by 20%
---> 3rd Person view Combat simulators for Eve and 3d views of Dust 514 Fights are viewed.

Step 4 (limit 75 in a room) 2013 Winter Expansion
- Able to interact beyond a single room
---> able to have multi room establishments
---> the Promenade becomes a reality though the Promenade is claustrophobic designed so no more than 75 people will ever be seen – Pull down list travel is removed, except in popular areas like Jita
--->large open establishment are created – Disco Halls
---> Duels are permitted
---> Emotes increased by 10%
----> Clothing Line increase by 20%
---> Small Public events can be held ie Closed doors Mind Clash
---> Closed Doors Court Room or Press Conferences.

Step 5 No limit of people 2014 Winter Expansion
---> Haze technology is used to draw people beyond 100 unless a Zoom feature is used then everyone else becomes blurry except long distance Bob.
---> New Open air Promenades becomes a reality. Pull down list travel may or may not exist depending on the demand of the players
---> Combat is open to individual establishments if permitted by establishment owners.
---->[Goons start attacking Raiden with rusty spoons]
---> Emotes increased by 10%
----> Clothing Line increase by 20%

Step 6 No limit -> haze technology is refined 2015 Summer Expansion
--> Limited Ship interiors released only for Newbie ships – CCP challenges the eve community to design ship interiors.
--> Several Generic Place holder Starbase and Space Ship interiors are put in place waiting to be replace by player created content.
Tool Set is released for players to design space ship and Starbase interiors
[Goons attempt to make interiors so that Penis factor is realized almost instantly – 1 Q/A Dev constant job to weed out this work]
--->Combat inside ships becomes a reality for Dust 514 on test server only.
---> Emotes increased by 5%
----> Clothing Line increase by 20%

Step 7 2015 Winter Expansion
---> Worm wholers now can undock in side their POS
---> > A team grid lock type of team is introduced into this project
--> Dust 514 and Eve Players now able to interact on Sleeper Missions
---> Player Made Interiors begin to populate ships, Dust 514 Missions also spill into this area.
---> Virtual Q/A Dev Mid year Round Table is now held in EVE (Virtiual Winter Fan fest begins)
---> Similar to current Missions system now develops for Ambulation. Player content is supplements this as another Q/A has to cypher through the High Time to Penis based Missions.

Step 8 2016 Summer Expansion
---> Station Windows over looking the undock now become a reality

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Gerald Taric
NEO DYNAMICS
#3202 - 2012-02-24 01:52:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Gerald Taric
CCP RedDawn wrote:

@Gerald Taric
1) Please do not put WiS over FiS

Team Avatar is a WiS slow burn team and the only team on WiS. All the other gameplay teams are working on FiS.

2) Give WiS some sense/content.

That's the plan.

i'm happy and patiently waiting. Bear
Taiwanistan
#3203 - 2012-02-24 02:22:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Taiwanistan
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Apparently all who waited for WiS as a source of alternate gameplay just will have to wait for a couple years... maybe then it's going to be worth resubbing to EVE.

Meanwhile, as my signature used to say... without no WiS, no new solo content, no new causal content, no hisec endgame... I will not be paying for this game.


how many times are you gonig to tell us about you leaving? WDGAF and STFU

Mara Rinn wrote:
Ambulation is one of the features of EVE I've been waiting for since I started playing.

At this point, I would like to see something simple: meeting spaces where we can just hang out in "person" and talk. This would be more than enough for the RPers amongst us, with the rest of the acting being done through imagination and emotes: "/me puts the drink down and gives Frank an incredulous stare". Ideally we'd be able to talk to each other using voice fonts in the invisible "spatial" channel, and further awesomeness would be present if the voice could be placed in 3D space corresponding with avatar location.

Having the ability for certain emotes to translate to avatar action or posture would be awesome. Set my mood to happy, I'll start bouncing along as I walk, head raised, shoulders square. Set my mood to depressed, my shoulders slump, I look at the ground, and drag my feet instead of lifting them when I walk.

There doesn't need to be anything fancy about "establishments" further than being a room that I rent from a limited set of rooms in the station. Later on we should be able to add decorations (and of course, exotic/tribal/interpretive dancers who will dance for ISK or Aurum).

For me, ambulation will be "Minimal Functional Product" when I can see other avatars in the same space, use voice fonts for acting to each other and have some level of animated emote system in place. And heck, the ability to "whisper" to each other, so this small huddle of people can conspire to play a trick on that stiff over there (i.e.: spatial conversation would have real-world inverse square law applied to audio signal strength).

Other features like contraband trading and gambling can come later (i.e.: interaction with the environment isn't so important from my perspective).

jesus christ, did you even read the dev blog? what part of gameplay, meaningful contribution to ecology of eve do you not understand?
why do you want to emote with a bunch of dudes so badly?

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Kelsi Darr
Orbital Express LTD
Trystero GmbH
#3204 - 2012-02-24 03:23:05 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:

It is most likley this great thread by Bloodpetal you are thinking of.


Hadn't seen it, but that's an interesting take on the idea!
Thank you. Smile
Sinooko
Tharumec
Gespenster Kompanie
#3205 - 2012-02-24 03:36:09 UTC
Armband tatt's? Really? WHO CARES! Can't even see them in that tiny little frame in the chat channel. How about you let us share our CQ Prison with some friends next? That would be a nice little iteration.

Maybe the optional removal of ash trays and soda cans too...
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#3206 - 2012-02-24 04:00:18 UTC
There is a compelling social aspect to being able to walk into your corporations room lets say, and see and interact with your corp mates avatars. Heck, even just walking about interacting with other toons currently on station is compelling.

Key here is that mini games et al are not really essential, the first step can simply be walking around and chatting. Done.

Think about it, no more just seeing friends as a portrait.

No more just taunting war targets or enemies in local, but actually walking up to their toons and getting in their faces while typing 'you gonna hide in station all day beotch?' or the like?

CCP doesn't need to spend a lot of effort on the mini games up front, just let peoples toons walk around -- and perhaps have proximity text chat (similar to whats on Sony playstation home, etc). Surely this isn't that big an effort?

Would you like to know more?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#3207 - 2012-02-24 07:37:32 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
jesus christ, did you even read the dev blog? what part of gameplay, meaningful contribution to ecology of eve do you not understand?
why do you want to emote with a bunch of dudes so badly?


Having a stage on which to act would be a great boon for role-players. Having functional activities can wait until the multiple-avatar issues have been sorted out.

So step one: get multiple avatars sharing the same space. Some minimal interaction ability such as emotes, there's your minimal viable product.

Step two: now that you have the ability for people to be in the same place together, add in the ability to customise the theatre: one person might want a minmatar bar. A different corporation might want a formal board room or "war room".

Step three: add decorative features and activities such as contraband trading.

It's a case of crawl before you can walk before you can run.

What part of "agile development" do you not understand?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#3208 - 2012-02-24 07:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
To Team Avatar and CCP:

Although I applaud you for wanting to do a 'Slow Burn' (Inferno reference?) approach for developing WiS content, it seems to me that CCP is now quite a bit 'Gun Shy' due to last years events. I must say that Dev Blog was very disappointing to say the least. I mean it didn't even introduce the members of Team Avatar. What's up with that?

As someone else pointed out, having Arm Tats for Avatars isn't something I would consider as new WiS game play content. As it is right now, that Dev Blog basically doesn't do anything to help generate an interest to participate in WiS or have the CQ active.

Being able to 'Personalize' the CQ with various items (Foliage, Medal's, Pets, etc.) either purchased from the NEX store or gathered from personal items hangar as well as different 'Lighting' accents and 'Save' that layout for that specific Racial CQ is a step towards introducing WiS game play content. Also having an option to use the main view screen as a 'Vid Phone' to view and communicate with other characters in their own CQ would help make the CQ seem less of a prison cell. This has been mentioned a few times in various different threads and would be a good step in the right direction towards developing future WiS game play content.

Speaking about the main view screen, why doesn't it have a drop down menu to select the various services available in that specific station? Also why isn't the official CCP videos streaming on it or all of the previous Alliance Tournaments? How about the option to 'Tune In' to Eve Radio? These should be easy enough to incorporate into the CQ. It would definitely help generate much more interest for players to have the CQ active while doing activity's not related to FiS, such as research, manufacturing, trade, waiting for Fleet Ops, reprocessing, etc.

Anyway, I guess I'm done venting for now.

DMC


You're right, it appears "gun shy". After thinking a while about it, it is clear that there are many "little steps" to add WiS functionality and which could be faster and easier than rethinkig the whole concept again and adding gameplay to it.

Why those steps are not mentioned? Maybe because Team Avatar is going to be 5 members all the way to 2013 no matter if the inferno freezes, so they CAN'T produce anything useful (short road= CQ improvements, limited mutiplayer, limited social interaction) and so they are comitting to a long road (the whole nine yards of WiS gameplay) in hope for better times.

In other words, we are being told about a possible bright future in exchange for the factual inability/corporate lack of interest to produce anything meaningful at the present.

Which is pretty much back to square 1:

If promises of WiS kept you in this game, better quit now and resub in a couple years at least.
Crucis Cassiopeiae
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3209 - 2012-02-24 10:40:20 UTC
If you have not read this, what The Boss said on for wis posts in comments on his devblog thread:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=844880#post844880

CCP Unifex wrote:
First up, thanks for the feedback in this thread and some of the great comments and contributions to what you want to see us working on. It's great that we are hitting the right buttons for you with Inferno.

Picking up on a couple of themes that have been common throughout this thread so far;

Avatars
We haven't abandoned this. What we have done is scale things back so we can focus on our core game whilst we get our heads around how we make sure characters add something really meaningful to EVE. We have a team of people who are incredibly passionate about this and I know that there is a Dev Blog coming about it soon.

But what about the industrialists / explorers etc?
We have a big game and we will get around to giving players who play the game for this type of experience more focus in the future. Feedback around things like this helps us evolve our plans as we look increasingly further forwards. Keep it coming.

You're just a big tease, give me more details
Yep, just one big tease. Expect a lot more info in upcoming Dev Blogs from the guys and gals putting the real hard work into delivering Inferno. If you want to get the chance to sit down with any of us face to face and grill us for information, you can still sign up for Fanfest (yes I know it's a shameless plug but it is going to be even better than ever this year)

Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 
Taiwanistan
#3210 - 2012-02-24 10:58:43 UTC
yeah i am disheartened to hear that we at back at square 1 of let's just quickly whip out a room for 5 dudes to emote each other and compare pants. no don't even try to tell me that is roleplay/immersion/sci-fi simulator/eve forever future vision, stop.

if you haven't noticed incarna 1.0's failure was not only of technical, but mainly of conceptual gameplay design in that it had NONE. which is what team bipedal avatar is trying address now and you are reacting sorely. look at the rate at which horse power of cpu and gpu exponentially grow each year, technical difficulties can be overcome sooner or later, elegantly or by brute horse power. what is the use of soulless "tech" when there is nothing for it to enable.

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3211 - 2012-02-24 11:12:53 UTC
I have to agree with you here Taiwanistan. Adding emotes sounds like the most worthless thing CCP could add to WIS and i would question what i was doing with my life if i was sat around with a bunch of people making their avatars arses shake.

However, i would enjoy having the ability to play a game of poker (or whatever) in game with my corp mates for isk. Like on mining ops, there are many times in eve where you are sat around doing nothing but talking to your friends and posting 4chan images in chat. Corp mini games would enhance this part of the game.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3212 - 2012-02-24 11:15:16 UTC
I would still like to have official good answer where did this end up to and why?

This entire concept and design was something many were waiting for instead of the junk we got now. Decent explanation would be in place. Is all this work really in /dev/bin now and beyond restoring? Just feels really bad to have working concept and product thrown away like this.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#3213 - 2012-02-24 11:24:47 UTC
Please do NOT abandon Ambulation (WiS)


My dream like many others is for someday to have a Freelancer MMO.

The way EvE is played it is ofc is not possible to make this game look like that.

The way space combat is done and the fact that players not npc's make the universe makes that so.

However maybe we can have one element from Freelancer in EvE, being able to walk inside stations or even capital ships.



When I first played this game 3 years ago it was sold to me as not the old mining sim,

but as a spreadsheet game with great live chatrooms, plus since eve had no sound, eve radio filled that gap perfectly.

Now in 2012 Eve is much more where player interaction is still as important as ever, but we still use chatrooms ingame (besides metagaming and eve voice)

Maybe we can get 3D versions of chatrooms for corporation/alliance use or maybe even making contracts to hire mercs or setup other agreements using 3D chat.

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
#3214 - 2012-02-24 12:49:22 UTC
[I'm cross posting this from the blog thread.]

The entire problem from the start was expectation management. The whole WiS concept has been around since (I think) late 2004/early 2005 so players like me who have played a number of years and seen it develop had been fed a steady diet of promises and grandiose visions of our avatars wondering around space stations. What we got was a box we could take three steps in any direction before hitting a wall. There was nothing wrong with Captains quarters it was simply that they in themselves did not warrant an entire expansion built up around them. The failure was with the marketing guys rather than the developers and coupled with the mischief that was going on with the internal newsletter and e-mails being released, and the lack of any real content, lead to the mass hysteria that went on.

The initial video we had of WiS was of avatars wondering up and down a promenade visiting stores. A powerful visual message that set itself in the minds of players from the time. We also had suggestions of new crafting mini-professions, retail establishments and bars, corporate offices and a board room. I also think the whole "iteration" approach to this just simply isn't going to work because whilst iteration works fine with FiS, it works because that is the core content of the game that has been around since the beginning. WiS does not have that framework to build upon in iterations so you need to be bolder, take a risk on releasing something that has a more multi-faceted level of content that appeals to a far wider audience rather than a select group at a time.

Get the promenade out there and allow people to set up retail establishments to sell player-crafted avatar clothing. Limit the market so that they're only accessible through WiS and not the standard market interface. If you want to overhaul boosters then have them sold in bars in the station rather than some generic "establishment". The entire Corporate management interface is not fit for purpose (trying being a CEO and locking/unlocking hundreds of BPs) and this could all be overhauled through a corporate office. Provide ways from within which we would be able to interact with space - for example, remote access to local counts or ways to monitor the success of Dust 514 members/teams. Make jump clones accessible only via WiS based medical facilities.

Release something we can immerse ourselves in because timidity will doom you to repeating the same mistakes you made with Incarna.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.
Crucis Cassiopeiae
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3215 - 2012-02-24 12:55:43 UTC
John McCreedy wrote:
[I'm cross posting this from the blog thread.]

The entire problem from the start was expectation management. The whole WiS concept has been around since (I think) late 2004/early 2005 so players like me who have played a number of years and seen it develop had been fed a steady diet of promises and grandiose visions of our avatars wondering around space stations. What we got was a box we could take three steps in any direction before hitting a wall. There was nothing wrong with Captains quarters it was simply that they in themselves did not warrant an entire expansion built up around them. The failure was with the marketing guys rather than the developers and coupled with the mischief that was going on with the internal newsletter and e-mails being released, and the lack of any real content, lead to the mass hysteria that went on.

The initial video we had of WiS was of avatars wondering up and down a promenade visiting stores. A powerful visual message that set itself in the minds of players from the time. We also had suggestions of new crafting mini-professions, retail establishments and bars, corporate offices and a board room. I also think the whole "iteration" approach to this just simply isn't going to work because whilst iteration works fine with FiS, it works because that is the core content of the game that has been around since the beginning. WiS does not have that framework to build upon in iterations so you need to be bolder, take a risk on releasing something that has a more multi-faceted level of content that appeals to a far wider audience rather than a select group at a time.

Get the promenade out there and allow people to set up retail establishments to sell player-crafted avatar clothing. Limit the market so that they're only accessible through WiS and not the standard market interface. If you want to overhaul boosters then have them sold in bars in the station rather than some generic "establishment". The entire Corporate management interface is not fit for purpose (trying being a CEO and locking/unlocking hundreds of BPs) and this could all be overhauled through a corporate office. Provide ways from within which we would be able to interact with space - for example, remote access to local counts or ways to monitor the success of Dust 514 members/teams. Make jump clones accessible only via WiS based medical facilities.

Release something we can immerse ourselves in because timidity will doom you to repeating the same mistakes you made with Incarna.


I am liking your post here too. :)

Listen to this guy ppl!!!
Attention

Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
#3216 - 2012-02-24 13:24:30 UTC
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:
I am liking your post here too. :)

Listen to this guy ppl!!!
Attention


LOL thanks. I'm just hedging my bets by cross posting in the hope that CCP read it.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.
Crucis Cassiopeiae
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3217 - 2012-02-24 14:44:49 UTC
John McCreedy wrote:
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:
I am liking your post here too. :)

Listen to this guy ppl!!!
Attention


LOL thanks. I'm just hedging my bets by cross posting in the hope that CCP read it.


maybe you should post it here:
Captains Quarters... ideas, suggestions and enhancements

That's sticky thread in Features & Ideas Discussion forum.

Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3218 - 2012-02-24 18:14:43 UTC
John McCreedy wrote:
[I'm cross posting this from the blog thread.]

The entire problem from the start was expectation management. The whole WiS concept has been around since (I think) late 2004/early 2005 so players like me who have played a number of years and seen it develop had been fed a steady diet of promises and grandiose visions of our avatars wondering around space stations. What we got was a box we could take three steps in any direction before hitting a wall. There was nothing wrong with Captains quarters it was simply that they in themselves did not warrant an entire expansion built up around them. The failure was with the marketing guys rather than the developers and coupled with the mischief that was going on with the internal newsletter and e-mails being released, and the lack of any real content, lead to the mass hysteria that went on.

The initial video we had of WiS was of avatars wondering up and down a promenade visiting stores. A powerful visual message that set itself in the minds of players from the time. We also had suggestions of new crafting mini-professions, retail establishments and bars, corporate offices and a board room. I also think the whole "iteration" approach to this just simply isn't going to work because whilst iteration works fine with FiS, it works because that is the core content of the game that has been around since the beginning. WiS does not have that framework to build upon in iterations so you need to be bolder, take a risk on releasing something that has a more multi-faceted level of content that appeals to a far wider audience rather than a select group at a time.

Get the promenade out there and allow people to set up retail establishments to sell player-crafted avatar clothing. Limit the market so that they're only accessible through WiS and not the standard market interface. If you want to overhaul boosters then have them sold in bars in the station rather than some generic "establishment". The entire Corporate management interface is not fit for purpose (trying being a CEO and locking/unlocking hundreds of BPs) and this could all be overhauled through a corporate office. Provide ways from within which we would be able to interact with space - for example, remote access to local counts or ways to monitor the success of Dust 514 members/teams. Make jump clones accessible only via WiS based medical facilities.

Release something we can immerse ourselves in because timidity will doom you to repeating the same mistakes you made with Incarna.

Solid. +1

I would be happy to wander a promenade with shop doors that are locked
for now rather than be stuck in a room all alone with one locked door. We
know the designs are there, there can't be that much work to release a
common area.

I don't care if there is no actual game play at this point, I just hate being
stuck in a room while I take care of station business. I know some people
don't understand why/how people can just chill with their avatars but why
they care how other people spend their time in game is beyond me.

Don't underestimate the power of human avartar interaction. Even if it doesn't
have any real game play atm.
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
#3219 - 2012-02-24 18:28:07 UTC
I'm not sure which thread we're meant to be using but I made a follow up post on the blog thread clarifying the Jump Clone comment.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#3220 - 2012-02-24 19:21:58 UTC
John does have a strong point, we set our bars too high but ccp set the bar a bit on releasable content as well.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.