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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

First post
Author
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2761 - 2012-01-29 20:05:59 UTC
Well, I guess you missed the various CCP Dev posts in this thread starting around page 125 with this one:

CCP Guard wrote:
To add a little to what I wrote yesterday.

I spoke with some people today and have some more clarity on this (althought not a ton more). It's likely that there will continue to be "some work" done on this front in the short term, while we iron out the long term plans. There are some assets nearly finished anyway and they will probably make their way on TQ in the months to come, things of the visual nature (WiSual? Lol?), decorative things that can be finalized with relatively light effort while we put most of our weight on the other foot. But I think we might still be able to put out some stuff that you guys will enjoy.

The vision for 3d characters as part of the complete sci fi simulator isn´t dead, it's just going to be done differently than the way we were doing it before last summer happened, and it's probably going to take some time to materialize fully (no, I don't know how much time, sorry)

Sorry for being vague. I'm trying to tell you something, mostly that WiS is not completely on ice and forgotten, without making you think I'm promising any particular things that you might be thinking of, that might not be coming. Not in the short term at least.

If I had to write a tl;dr for this, it would probably be...nope, you know what...I'll let you guys write the tl;dr for me Blink


Then followed a few pages later by another CCP Dev:

CCP Bayesian wrote:
Time for some new information on our plans.

Incarna is not dead, it is however on a slight hiatus with much less development effort being put towards it. This is partly due to the refocus on to spaceship gameplay and the War expansion. Mainly it's because we want to take the time to do the gameplay in Incarna right and learn from the mistakes we made in creating the initial release.

The effort is being led by a new, small team inventively named Team Avatar. We're tasked with maintenance and improvement of existing systems, developing new features for the Captains Quarters, NeX Store and Character Creator and prototyping multiplayer gameplay for Incarna. Our top priority after dealing with defects that are live on TQ is to come up with a solid vision and find the gameplay for future work on a multiplayer Incarna release.

We are interested in your ideas and will trawl this epic thread to see what you guys have been discussing. Any more suggestions would be good to put in the Features & Ideas Discussion forum just so that they are more visible to us.

We'll be coming out with more concrete information on what this all entails soonish but fire away with questions.


That was followed with about 1/2 dozen pages of question and answer time with a sneak preview of Team Avatar:

CCP Bayesian wrote:

We have in no particular order:

Designers:
CCP Flying Scotsman
CCP t0rfifrans

Software Engineers:
CCP Karkur
CCP Bayesian

QA:
CCP RedDawn


Then even more interaction by CCP plus a post from another CCP Dev:

CCP RedDawn wrote:
I have to worry about the sheer amount of corpse chat in this thread.

You are a bunch of dark but lovely people.

On a more serious note though, we will be releasing a dev blog soon to formally introduce Team Avatar and our plans, goals, hopes, fears and our honest optimism towards Incarna v2.

For now though, please keep this amazing thread going with your ideas.

Cheers!


After that there was even more interaction between CCP's Team Avatar and Pro-WiS players.

Anyway, I am truly amazed how some people are so quick to post without researching all of the facts. Sure it's gonna take a little while for WiS gameplay content to roll out, but I'm sure everybody would agree that 'Commitment To Excellence' is much more preferred than rushed unfinished content.

One thing is for sure, I'll be damned to let this thread end on a negative note by someone trying to rain on this parade. Obviously you quickly jumped on the wrong Band Wagon without actually hearing the song they were singing.

Like it or not, WiS is here and more content will be developed and expanded on in the future making WiS an integral part of Eve Online.

\o/ Go Team Avatar Go \o/
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2762 - 2012-01-29 20:16:45 UTC
Thanks for the hard work Crimson.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Razin
The Scope
#2763 - 2012-01-29 21:23:41 UTC
Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
Razin wrote:
Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
How about we make sure there are some CSM7 members that have ambulation as a priority!

Voice of Reason Party

Issler



I am afraid that's impossible.
Large alliances will make their member to vote for only ppl they like and that's it.
CSM like idea is broken.

Working as intended.

Players who are active in game and have a large following get elected. There's no in- or out of game mechanism to force anyone to vote; it's all voluntary. Nothing wrong with that.


The problem is that CSM voting, now, is out of game thing.
And its not voluntary when your alliance/corp leader tells you that you must vote for that guy "or else".
And everything is wrong with that.

Please enlighten us of the tools the alliance leadership uses to track the voting of the alliance membership (and alts!).

Additionally, please explain how the CSM voting is an "out of game thing" when you have to be a paying subscriber to vote.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#2764 - 2012-01-29 23:21:34 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Sirius Cassiopeiae wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
How about we make sure there are some CSM7 members that have ambulation as a priority!

Voice of Reason Party

Issler



I am afraid that's impossible.
Large alliances will make their member to vote for only ppl they like and that's it.
CSM like idea is broken.


If folks wake up and get involved all the members of the large power blocks combined are a fraction of active accounts.

Players of Eve are starting to see the CSM can change Eve and sometimes in ways they might like want.

Issler Dainze
Voice of Reason Party CSM 7 Candidate

If WiS is a priority issue, then I'll support the Voice Of Reason Party with my vote.

To those who supported WiS in this thread, let your voice be heard, If you don't, who do you think will advocate FiS and WiS development? Definitely won't be the current CSM.


I definitely want VOR to keep CCP's feet to the fire when ti comes to ambulation!

Issler
Flamespar
WarRavens
#2765 - 2012-01-30 02:15:08 UTC
It's great that WiS will be the subject of a roundtable discussion on Fanfest. The only problem is that unfortunately that means players that aren't going to be at Fanfest will miss out on the opporunity to talk about it with the Devs.

Is it possible to organise a 'virtual' roundtable whereby players are able to discuss the future of Incarna? Perhaps you could incorporate a crowd sourcing exercise as part of it to help gauge interest in different proposed features.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#2766 - 2012-01-30 17:33:17 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
I think people who expect deliverables for WIS that meet their expectations happening in the next year have sand in their heads.

If you really think 4 devs and a single QA guy can build and deliver on the stuff you are all expecting, I hate to be the one who pees in your cornflakes, but this is CCP folks. Over-promise and underdeliver is their company mantra. They only scramble when their asses are on the line.


Richard Garriott programmed Akalabeth by himself in his garage every other weekend.

Colossal Cave Adventure, the first text-adventure, was programmed by one man, refined by another, and set the path of the gaming industry for the next forty years.

Ken and Roberta Williams programmed Mystery House, the very first graphical adventure game, by themselves, sitting in their living room.

Will Wright programmed the original SimCity in his spare time, inspired by a product that he was already working on.

The World Wide Web was the product of one man with a vision.

Teams of '4 devs and a single QA guy' were setting trends in the computer industry more than thirty years ago.

You don't need three hundred people to make a good product.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Sakura Imoru
Perkone
Caldari State
#2767 - 2012-01-30 17:47:45 UTC
I wonder when this Devblog they promised is going to be published? What?
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2768 - 2012-01-30 19:15:32 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
I think people who expect deliverables for WIS that meet their expectations happening in the next year have sand in their heads.

If you really think 4 devs and a single QA guy can build and deliver on the stuff you are all expecting, I hate to be the one who pees in your cornflakes, but this is CCP folks. Over-promise and underdeliver is their company mantra. They only scramble when their asses are on the line.


Richard Garriott programmed Akalabeth by himself in his garage every other weekend.

Colossal Cave Adventure, the first text-adventure, was programmed by one man, refined by another, and set the path of the gaming industry for the next forty years.

Ken and Roberta Williams programmed Mystery House, the very first graphical adventure game, by themselves, sitting in their living room.

Will Wright programmed the original SimCity in his spare time, inspired by a product that he was already working on.

The World Wide Web was the product of one man with a vision.

Teams of '4 devs and a single QA guy' were setting trends in the computer industry more than thirty years ago.

You don't need three hundred people to make a good product.


Oddly enough I havent played or heard of any of these games.

Secondly it was a team of 40+ for the first interations of arpa net, millions of tax payers, a gaggle super majority of politicans voting for its demilitarization into commericalization and two guys in a garage coding it as a joke that made it a trend that brought it to every home. Those two guys still send me free CD's every month I use for decorations as an ex customer.

I still think the two guys responsible for google was much more interesting.
Then four(5?) guys who started a widely popular video playing website with the self proclaim prophecy that this isnt going to work as thier very first video uploaded to the size. The first of millions.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2769 - 2012-01-30 19:16:22 UTC
Looks like Space Barbie will get more dev time than spaceships ever got while they were working on Incarna for a year and a bit so stop complaining.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2770 - 2012-01-30 19:39:16 UTC
As much as I like incarna I will not vote for any CSM candidate thats running for that as a platform. CCP needs to take incanra slow not shove it down the throats again and I dont want a Eve player being the guys stomping on that wad of paper.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Aquila Draco
#2771 - 2012-01-30 19:46:52 UTC
Doris Dents wrote:
Looks like Space Barbie will get more dev time than spaceships ever got while they were working on Incarna for a year and a bit so stop complaining.


Some ppl just aren't smart enough to calculate 2+2.
that ppl other ppl call dumb.
so please don't write again and stop sharing your dumbness.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2772 - 2012-01-30 19:47:02 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:

Secondly it was a team of 40+ for the first interations of arpa net, millions of tax payers, a gaggle super majority of politicans voting for its demilitarization into commericalization and two guys in a garage coding it as a joke that made it a trend that brought it to every home. Those two guys still send me free CD's every month I use for decorations as an ex customer.

the post you replied to talked about the world wide web, not about the internet

Usenet, gopher, WWW, email, ... are all just services offered on/over the internet.

.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2773 - 2012-01-30 21:48:05 UTC
Doris Dents wrote:
Looks like Space Barbie will get more dev time than spaceships ever got while they were working on Incarna for a year and a bit so stop complaining.



Any one complaining here? not me
lets wait for that blog they promised and see what they have in mind

R.S.I2014

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#2774 - 2012-01-30 21:49:04 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
As much as I like incarna I will not vote for any CSM candidate thats running for that as a platform. CCP needs to take incanra slow not shove it down the throats again and I dont want a Eve player being the guys stomping on that wad of paper.


Don't you think it would be valuable to have a CSM member that encourages CCP to keep ambulation in their plans and not lobby for its total abandonment? The CSM was anti-ambulation. I think we need a candidate that keeps CCP thinking about it and working on ti steadily in reasonable balance with other game features.

The Voice of Reason party will make that part of our focus. The make sure CCP knows there is active interest in ambulation and to not abandon it.

Issler
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#2775 - 2012-01-30 22:28:31 UTC
The CSM isn't anti-ambulation. They're just anti-Incarna. Incarna was a failed, rushed attempt to monetize peoples desire for WiS.

I'm anti-Incarna too, but extremely pro Ambulation. WiS is, I think, the next big feature that needs to be released, developed slowly while FiS is fixed, since FiS is the core of EVE gameplay.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2776 - 2012-01-30 22:50:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
More accurately, the CSM is opposed to CCP tipping huge piles of subscription money down the toilet (like any other player), and spending 5 years of development time to come up with a dirty closet, $70 macro-transactions and a new way to set your graphics card on fire is pretty much a textbook example of it.

If CCP can come up with a usable version of WiS which has some actual gameplay attached to it, then fine, lets have WiS, but so far there's precious little evidence that the feature has any utility beyond selling monocles and beta-testing the graphics engine for a game that now might never see the light of day.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2777 - 2012-01-31 00:36:11 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
More accurately, the CSM is opposed to CCP tipping huge piles of subscription money down the toilet (like any other player), and spending 5 years of development time to come up with a dirty closet, $70 macro-transactions and a new way to set your graphics card on fire is pretty much a textbook example of it.

If CCP can come up with a usable version of WiS which has some actual gameplay attached to it, then fine, lets have WiS, but so far there's precious little evidence that the feature has any utility beyond selling monocles and beta-testing the graphics engine for a game that now might never see the light of day.


Gawd, please get your facts straight before you post. And while you're at it, try reading the various CCP Dev replies in this thread. I even posted a few of them at the top of this page.

The hugh piles of subscription money wasn't spent on WiS or the NEX and MT. CCP bought out another company (White Wolf) and invested into 2 other projects. Don't try to say CCP spent 5 years focused on WiS either. There was a lot of other gameplay content developed and released just in the past 3 years.

As for graphic cards burning up, boo hoo. I had a 10 yr old very limited computer which was able to run CQ. Granted it was super laggy and took a long time to load due to game settings placed on low but hey, if my old computer could do it, those high priced new gaming computers should have been able to do it. What really boggles my mind is I just bought a new computer for $400 and guess what, it runs excellent with the CQ active and all Eve settings on high.

So you don't like the NEX store, fine. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything from it. WiS gameplay will be incorporated into the game. Unfortunately right now CCP is a little bit gun shy and is busy placating a very vocal minority. Plus they seriously need to continue fixing all the broken unfinished content in the game.

As far as I know, the current CSM has not supported any WiS development and I doubt they ever will. I will place my vote with Issler Dainze and I encourage others to do the same.

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2778 - 2012-01-31 00:42:26 UTC
I may also vote for Issler. Not sure...I get all my facts before making a decision. Was gonna run myself but I think I have far too many people on these forums that hate me to have any chance of succeeding. No point in splitting the voter pool even a little if you ain't gonna win and you know it. Kinda screws the pooch for everybody else if you know what I mean.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2779 - 2012-01-31 02:08:55 UTC
Yeah, I also entertained the notion of running for CSM. At this time I'd much rather support someone who has more conviction and dedication to do it than I do. Besides that, I feel Issler Dainze shares the same concerns and viewpoints as I have on a lot of issues. A hell of a lot more than the current CSM or anyone else even remotely affiliated with them. If I understand you correctly, then you pretty much feel the same way and as you said, why split the vote when you can easily help solidify it for someone else who roughly shares the same viewpoints.

I belong to NPC starter corp which has a lot of players in it. I also have quite a few other chat channels open while in game. Also it seems lately my name often gets recognized in local chat at various times, probably due to the 'Faction Standing Repair Plan'. All of these seem like a good opportunity to do a little bit of endorsement for someone who definitely would like to see WiS gameplay content developed.

As for the Forums, I'm sure we're all disliked by someone. And I don't think the Forums really matter too much. I think the way to get votes is to convo players in the game via local chat. Basically let em know who you are and what your stance is on various topics, discuss main issues with possible solutions and collect ideas for the future. More or less let the public know that you want to represent them.

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2780 - 2012-01-31 02:18:25 UTC
Yeah...this is true. I have the time to dedicate to being a CSM member. I spend almost all my time on the forums at work anyway and could take time off if need be. I just don't think I would garner the votes to make it worth it...so I will support someone I know can.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821