Wormholes

I'm personaly wondering, is that your alt, and are you really in Temnava for only 9 days? Personally i don't like PVPing with you anymore, if you were longer in Temnava you would know some more things, which apparently you don't know.. Also are you from Balkan, or anywhere nearby, or maybe you main is in Temnava for long time, since you guys haven't been always accepting people from all over the world inside, there are things that you don't know..

No, what I'm saying is that if you expect to play the game like you're in null, but you're in w-space, you're going to be sorely disappointed which......is exactly what's being expressed by you and others who want to change w-space to accommodate your play style which is a nullsec play style.

As for everybody in null fights....no....not everyone. Renters are left to die by their alliances all the time. Saying that everyone in null fights for their space.....you're indicating what? That everyone in w-space doesn't?

As for PVP drivers....most people I know in w-space are there to do 2 things.....make isk, get pew. And it's sounding a lot like you are advocating a nullsec model for w-space. Personally, I don't need a pvp driver to pvp. I look for it almost daily. If other people don't want to pew, that's their choice. That's a great thing about w-space.....there's *gasp* choice. If I went to null I'd have no choice but to be a corp member in some alliance or become a renter.

I already pay to play the game. Don't really care to pay to play a second time which is what I would have to do as a renter.....rent....wtf would I do that?

All I can say is if you want to play the game with nullsec mechanics......go to nullsec. But you haven't presented one idea in this thread without saying "like nullsec"....if you want w-space to be more like nullsec.....then go to nullsec.

What's my corp got to do anything with it? Stop circling around and discuss the idea. Just answer the the statement rek seven added, what do you really fight for in wh? why do you pvp?, if the answer is just for fun, then that is the root of the problem (in my humble opinion). And noho is a really cool alliance that accepts everyone from around the world (if you have the right requirements) with 23 hour up time, and mostly the buggers are a lot of fun.

Now Mr. Kidd your arguments are becoming worse and worse, and frankly I don't like to put people down especially on a topic I started, but your reading comprehension kind of sucks. I already said I don't want it to be like null, I even said I just used it as an example for comparison. Saying that I want local in WH is really a cheap shot and you are degrading the argument. Let me be clear, my favorite form of pvp is small scale pvp, I love the wormhole mechanics, with mass limits and no local, and I am a big advocate of removing direct local intelligence out of every part of the game. Now we got this out of the way, Mr. Kidd you argument about killing an orca to refuel your tower, is as good as saying an alliance can fund itself through killing jump freighters. I am not saying we should have more income or more isk, I am just saying there should a reward to the risk you take. There is a problem when not pvping is actually more profitable than pvping. I would just like to have more incentive than just fun (what a jew I know) to take out my multi billion ships out in combat. It is just good game mechanics to have some reward for the risks you take. I won't repeat myself as you still didn't really tackle the post I wrote before this. PVP drivers are just good gameplay mechanics (refer to previous post).

And Mr. Kidd attacking a group (c5/c6) arbitrarily and generally doesn't give you any credence and makes you look biased. Blaming a subgroup entirely for a particular problem is always bad.


You are saying that the addition isn't needed and we should all move to c2's so we can fight for the highsec chains, which just is ridiculous. I just mentioned null as an example where simple PVP drivers can add so much more quality pvp (relatively, a blob or tengus is better than a blob of cyclones). Quality pvp means pvp with long term (more than just the next 20 mins) objectives, ever changing doctrines and long term conflict, and most importantly changing political landscape (yay no more static blues). It's a problem in my mind, that we can't force anyone to pvp, the question we always seem to ask ourselves when we scout an enemy (or as jack said someone not in our fleet), is "will they give us a fight"? If they don't us one they should stand to lose something. As I said that shouldn't apply to all kinds of pvp, but maybe start with making evictions a little profitable. Evictions are not profitable because the corp can actually self destruct all their assets with ease. (More suggestions would be nice, more input is always better)

He was clearly using null sec as an example. If you are going to reply, read the posts you are replying to first FFS.

This is why people want you to post with your main.

From Abis Cann of Hard Knocks on his mittani article. id say that's a fair summary of a pvp driver in wspace.

I guess I just feel that wanting to log in and shoot stuff is satisfying enough. dash in some epic battles, shiny ganks, merc ops, and general goofyness on late night comms and I'm a happy camper. grudges add a nice touch as well.

The people I agree with are saying this:

1) PVP is not your God-given right as a player of this game; you have to work for it
2) If you want smaller entities to fight you, you have to be prepared to stop showing 4x plus their numbers.
3) If you're going to evict people, you have to contend with smaller entities being afraid to get into C5s/C6s.
4) E-Honor extends only as far as the player behind the screen. Some are good for it, others are full of it.

Saying that "somebody should lose something because they don't want to fight" is what a psychopath tells themselves to fall asleep at night. Yeah yeah it's just a game; so why are you so worked up that a guy who knows you're better at PVP than him says "no"? I hear a lot of championing for "Elite PVPers" right to PVP and the "nasty carebears blue balling." As far as I'm concerned, they pay just as much as you do to play this game. I don't exercise their method of playing the game, but my options are clear, ignore them or evict them. Evicting them means I can't catch them next time, so I almost always choose ignore.

What do I fight for in WH space? Of course it's for fun. Wormhole space is the retirement club for Null-sec. Wormholes is where you can reap the benefits of what your corp or alliance sows (if you join a good corp or alliance). Why on earth would I play a video game if it wasn't for fun? Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of other motivating factors, but the truth of the matter is most wormholers don't like the kind of game-play we see in null where it's "ruin their day so they stop logging in." You know why? Because that kills games. I watched it happen with DAOC, you see it happen in WoW with horribly 1-sided server populations on PVP servers. I'm sure there are countless other games where the same scenario plays out. Hell we're watching it right now with probably well over half of C5s unpopulated (I base this number on absolutely nothing but pure speculation).

As Rengas said, Evictions are about winning, they're about dominating your opponent. The problem is, nothing you can do is going to force anybody to take that. High-sec still generates good ISK/hr, Null-sec has swaths of unoccupied yet sovereignty owned space that alliances can gift to new corporations who join them. The responsibility to create our own meta game in Wormhole space extends beyond ourselves to giving a reason to newbies to get into it. I don't sell wormholes for the money (the money helps :) ) I sell them to get new blood into wormholes.

I predict one theme to follow this post: I want to play the game MY way. Well you know what, that's completely your right. But it's everybody else's right to play the game their way too. And when THEIR way is threatened by YOUR way, they are forced to retreat usually. If you keep shouldering them around and yelling "nerd" in their face every time they don't want to fight your overwhelmingly superior force, sooner or later they'll just stop coming to school. Insert culturally relevant metaphor for you here.

Svo.

Lots of great input from many different angles. Only thing I would add/emphasize at this point is:

If you want PVP often then go to WH with HS static.

If you want smaller PVP action then go to WH with HS static.

If you want PVP often and smaller PVP then go WH diving from HS into WH you find.


Having lived in C1, C2, C4 and C6, C4 and above tend not to get as much PVP especially on the smaller scale. I don't particularly like it but it just seems to be the way it is unfortunately. Going into another C4+ WH for PVP invites the opportunity for them to bring caps which you may not be able to bring for mass reasons. With many, many WH corp/alliances on the smaller size in number, I don't blame them for trying to fight in their home WH but it does limit the action.

OP wants conflict driver? Make POS bashing profitable.

No sd within shields
SMA drops ships

Two changes that would make a lot more fights for WH space

Now that is a constructive post (in my opinion). both of these suggestions I mentioned in my first post , so I am tiny bit biased.

Don't change anything or any mechanics or features, just add some pvp drivers, that is all.


And for the people that think for some reason that this is going to destroy small scale pvp (I don't where this idea came from). It won't. Wh mechanics favor small gangs, and having any kind of fleet of more than 30 people (I know that is not so small ,but not big either) is extremely difficult to work with.

Probably because you're an idiot