Wormholes

I edited one post to remove racist commentary.

I think its more of a lack of reward regarding the typical pos bash. When we blew up tlc, we destroyed probably 20 sma's, half with dreads, the other half t3's. no dreads dropped, no t3's dropped, the sma's don't put up a killboard of what was in it when it assploded.

So you shoot something, nothing drops, and no killboard of what you blew up. It's like doing a mission with nothing but officer npc's and not getting any loot, not even a mangled piece of metal.

What's the point if there is no chance of loot.

Kind of what irked people. Yes the CHA and xlarge can drop stuff but the big juicy items are the sma's

I'm still shocked over the sma's not dropping ships.....

The fact that they don't produce killmails is even worse.

Eve is about flaunting your success, and a sense of achievement (like most game)

If you can't do that through the loot you get, there should at least be a killmail to hold up as a trophy... And its also something to look back on, the history of your eve shenanigans through your combat log is awesome.
"That one time we cost Freddie blogs 5 billion"
Without at least loot and or "proof" it just seems pointless to me to even attack a pos for anything other than a grudge or to take the space.


o7

Because POS bashing is "PvP".

You're on something if you think there's no major content driver for WH PvP. The primary reason I and many others live in wormholes: where else do you get all the benefits of null security combined with the small-gang-centric mentality of lowsec?

There doesn't need to be a primary content driver for PvP in wormholes. CCP has shown that their idea of a content driver revolves primarily around shooting structures and/or orbiting buttons, all of which rely not on performance in combat but on timers and massive pools of HP.

I don't know about you, but the day that Anoikis denizens rely on structure shoots to create fights, instead of careful scouting and clever manipulation of wormhole mechanics, is the day Anoikis dies.

So I have a main in a large WH corp and a small WH corp. I like both large and small scale PVP. So there have been times where we have had to search for days to find PVP. Then there have been days where it was all around us. We search out chains until we reach the dead ends. It's all about the hunt for some. If you really just want PVP find a C5/6 with a null sec roll it and mess around with Null Sec bears. They need some poking. Make them mad enough to "try" and find you WH space. Someone is always willing to sell some one out. This should be for the larger corps wanting PVP. Every WH residence should know that Null Sec generally hate us because we tend to be smarter than they are and know how to make large amounts of isk in a few days. They want us to be nerfed. They want nullsec to be the end game. Yes, there should be some motivation to move in C5/6s but not when people are always getting evicted for being carebears. Another, problem is people always wanting to fight with their WH effects. Grow some and throw some crap on the wall see if it sticks. Also, those who kill people trying to get into WHs, recruit some of them. I have done this in the past and gotten great members from it. Also, I hate null sec after living down there on several instances. So take null sec local away. Make some upgrade to add it back. Then you'll have more fun killing null sec bears. I know this has veered more to changing null sec and blowing up null sec, but hey let the W-space K-space war begin. Disclaimer: Not liable for the ramblings that came from my fingers.

I am much more concerned with the rising power of the Royal Amarr Institute myself. NERF them all to hell.

While the idea that there are a lack of conflict drivers in w-space is rather shallow, as players create their own conflict driver, it does have a hint of underlying desire. Nullsec and lowsec have easy access to systems, and have structure grinds and timers. While I think you can all agree that no one wants to sit all day and shoot structures, the WH community at large could benefit from the side effects that timers have in null and lowsec. Namely, a time and a place to fight. The majority of WH fights take place when one group rolls into another who is running sites. To counter the capitals and sleepers, it tends to require a large fleet of 20 or more T3 cruisers with plenty of logistic support. It is from this that there are the myriad of cries of how there is no more “honorable” combat with smaller fleets of equal numbers, that almost all conflict has turned into blobs with capitals thrown about on either side.

So the calls for more conflict drivers aren’t really about reasons to fight, but rather creating circumstances where two WH entities can fight without the need to bring so many people to avoid the “blobbing” and capitals, or to have a skirmish when it is your corporation’s off hours and you can’t muster the manpower.

People want more content from CCP because as it stands, there are few places and circumstances in which you fight in W-Space. Combat, Radar and Mag sites are the same for all intent and purposes, all typically requiring capitals and a heavy amount of ships to either run or fight people at and typically are ganks (I don’t know of anyone who has run sites with the express intention of trying to get a fight there, yes I know there are exceptions). If you fight someone at a combat site, you either wipe them out and are accused of ganking, or get blobbed yourselves.

You have Grav and Ladar sites, but they are either cleared quickly, or no one bothers with them. Again, I don’t know of anyone who goes to a grav or ladar site for PvP.

There are the wormholes themselves. This is the other area where most PvP happens. A giant musical chairs of trying to reduce the mass or collapse the WH to trap one group on a certain side or forcing people to polarize themselves. This is where the most “fair” fights will happen, but nearly always has the disadvantage of happening on one side. The home team has the advantage of brining more people and more capitals and so few times are WH groups willing to pursue out of their own system and into the other’s. I am making broad generalizations here.

Lastly we have the normal celestials, the sun, planets and moons or just plain in the middle of space at a safe spot. Fighting at moons is silly due to POSs, and fighting anywhere else give the other group control over the wormhole, cutting off your escape, or preventing you from bringing reinforcements while allowing them to bring their own.

What I’m reading with all the posts is that people want some beacon to announce they want to fight, and for it to be on a visible timer so that both sides know when a fight will happen. That is the side effect of nullsec structure grinds, that everyone knows when there will be a fight (or a blueball). Everyone is happy win or lose, when it all goes according to plan. WH dwellers want a different circumstance and location where they perhaps can use different tactics to fight so as to avoid always ganking site runners, or Mexican standoffs on wormholes. In null, the meta is always evolving, ship doctrines change every month and tactics must adjust, but that isn’t possible in WHs due to mass restrictions. T3s are the best bang per buck (or Kg) when you have a limited mass and a limited number of pilots, and so of course they are used.

So it is not really a “we need more reasons to fight” but “we need more situations in which we fight” that involve the need to use different ships and tactics. There needs to be something that drives the meta of WH pvp forward and ideally keeps it evolving.

But it still is a difficult thing to serve. The volatile nature of WHs and the constant changing of connections make any beacon or timer realistically unfeasible, as one group would have to wait in the other’s hole for potentially hours just to get a single fight that might not even happen.

Thinking about this, maybe the biggest problem is that we all know how to roll wormholes too well, that when we see an unfavorable situation, we quickly close the connection. There almost needs to be something that forces two WH entities to share a connection to one another that neither of them can roll, and so they would have to deal , fight, defend, whatever with one another.