Wormholes

You do realize I live in a c5 don't you? When I speak of moaning its usually because you are moaning.

You want people to discuss issues, yet you discount the words of those who will intentionally blue ball you, simply because it has become more fun to harvest your tears than to fight you. Why this does not concern people is beyond me. Hell, unless someone else is FC'ing I will do it to you on purpose that's how much more fun harvesting your tears is than fighting you.

What we should be discussing is why are we so terrible that people will blatantly and openly blueball us than fight us. Why have we worked ourselves into a position where fun is had by not playing.

The fact that this actually happens is bad.



So then what is the incentive, o dear wise internet one, to bashing my head against the same overpowered and boringly predictable fleets over and over and over again. To being forced at some random time to fight these fleets, or multiples at once while being besieged by sleepers? To risking my cap ships to clear sites against other cap ships just because. Or simply to being forced to fight on your terms because you want me to?

Drivers are catalysts for change and adaptation. You seem unwilling to accept that you may be forced by a driver to completely scrap everything you know and do and start again. Almost every idea you summarized would bend the game to fit how you currently do things, not the other way around like it should be.

We in the c5/c6 regions have, in my opinion the most powerful driver of all. The ability to swiftly travel around any part of the game without complicated logistics, titans, sov or any of that static nonsense. We could, if we so chose, find pvp in every part of the game in a single day. How much more power and enabling do you need to create content?

As for calling you stupid.
The dictionary uses definitions 3 and 4 to define stupid as the following.
3.
tediously dull, especially due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless
4.
annoying or irritating; troublesome

So by quick glance you can see that those two fit the very definition of what you currently do as well as what you are proposing to do. By proxy rendering my summation of them into the word 'stupid' not only accurate but a generalization of what everyone else is telling you into a simple term. You, however, chose to take offense instead. If you like, going forward I will call you tediously dull, annoying and irritating instead.

Going back to drivers.
I believe someone used the reference earlier of "advance blueballing". This is a quite accurate portrayal of what would happen if you try and force people together to "fight" you. Currently there is no drive to fight people because you give them no incentive to. Making yourself appealing to fight is both a driver and a good utilization of existing drivers that CCP does not need to code and waste money and resources on.

What drivers am I referencing? The desire to enjoy the game is currently the most powerful driver in the game. It is also the driver that is forcing people away from you that you could be using to force them towards you. People will naturally gravitate towards things that are fun, it is a large contributer to what made TEST such a huge group before drama took over. Make use of existing mechanics and drivers to make yourself fun to fight and everything else will happen on its own. Since you like the pos bashing reference I will humor you and use it here. If you have fun pos bashing, then do it. If not, don't. Wormholes are so loaded with isk that the want of some ships that you could easily have purchased if you did pve for a shorter time is not really a good driver for anything. Making isk harder to get would be a good catalyst for a driver that would make people fight over resources. But ships for the sake of ships is not a driver, it does not force you to change anything.

What you will likely find should some of these "drivers" you seem so keen on actually happen is all this loot you are after will suddenly disappear because people will only keep in their towers what they can log off when you come to town. When these mythical multi-static systems generate on someone who does not wish to partake in your version of eve, they will simply log off. Let you bash their now empty towers and, when you are gone, log back in again. Identical to how roaming farmers do currently. And we all know how much fun those are to deal with.

Look at it this way, why would I intentionally subject myself to terrible odds, broken mechanics and just general terribleness for (insert time here) when I can simply log all my stuff off? Lets say the sleepers take over my system for some predetermined amount of time with penalties that make the system unusable for an additional period of time. If its too long for my liking I can simply unsub and wait out the time while doing other things, playing other games. When the time has passed I sub(or not)and go about not playing your version of eve. Your "drivers" are not really drivers. Yes for a very brief period of time you will get a few cheap kills and maybe the odd tower or two with a terribad fit tengu inside. But you have not changed, the game has not changed, and you will be back here moaning and complaining that we need to find new ways to generate content.

Ultimately, you have not been driven to do anything.

This thread is hilarious.

This is SO true. You get a lot of posturing from null-sec bloc guys but when it comes down to it they are absolutely terrified of C5/C6 corps coming out of null-sec wormholes because we know the mechanics of wormhole space so much better than they do. It's easy to say "hey that's goons, they've got a 70 man tengu gang, lets counter with this." The unknown is what scares them; hey that Proteus is sitting uncloaked on the wormhole with 105 of us in local, but he won't cloak up, what do they have in there??

We are so far off the original topic but your post caught my fancy :)

Svo.

No, that is what you think. You need to stop crying because people won't play EVE the way you want. Just get agreements for 5v5 at the sun and let the rest of us play.

Most of these arguments are based on the current mechanics for pos's.

You could do this you could do that to deny the attackers any sense of victory or iskies.

Things change,mechanics change. Hell just fixing the sma bug would throw the cat amongst the pigeons.

Do not just base your idea's and views on how W space, pos mechanics are at this precise moment in time because game play could be totally different in W space this time next year and this thread is trying to reach out to CCP and try to mold it in a way that current wormhole dwellers would like to see it go.

The utter arrogance of some of the bigger corporations/alliances in this thread makes me smile, just because you are associated with more pilots in your system does not make you any more right than us small fry and some of you would do well to remember that and not discount ideas suggestions from us. Some of us actually chose to be in lower class wormholes and roam in smaller groups because we find that style of game play more appealing.

That is cool and I totally respect that, I am not asking for any change in pvp mechanics, and the things we are asking for (the people that want more pvp drivers), doesn't change or affect your playstyle one bit, other than of course giving you more opportunities and incentives for pvp, which is all what we are arguing for, I really don't see how that can be a bad thing.

Joan I'm not after you at all, in fact I don't even think I have gotten to shoot you yet. Come tomorrow I probably wont even remember your name if this thread isn't on the top of the boards.

Fact is though, you inherited a badge when you joined your alliance. And with that badge you inherited its baggage. You may do a lot of other things now. But not very far in the distant past you(NOHO) were one of the great purveyors of what I mentioned in my posts. Like it or not, when people see the NOHO badge the second thought on their minds is almost invariably "cr&p, here comes a t3 epeen blob again, lets see if we can roll and find something else to do before they find our hole." You mentioned cringing when you hear about arranged fights. This is a byproduct of that illustrious past that is now driving you nuts. Sadly your organizations past is haunting you daily.




Agreed on the first point but not the other, fun is the reason we play games. When that is gone it becomes work that I have to pay for. Which is when you and I stop playing.
As for paying the price, we have to deal with terrible pos mechanics and paranoia all the time. To me that is in game price enough.
If you want me to actually defend my system, I guarantee you that you will not be pleased with the outcome because I will do everything in my power to skew it in my advantage. Its nothing personal, its just how defending works. Someone used the term "absolute" earlier which I think is appropriate. So who really benefits here from having to defend my home? My limited mental calculus says neither of us.
The actual price we pay is all the same, $15 a month and you can do as you damn well please so long as it is within the EULA and the rules of your chosen organization. There are tons of holes out there sitting empty, "defending" my home is silly when, unlike other parts of space, there is tons of it lying empty around me. Should you happen to stumble into me and can make yourself(NOHO/whoever) look like an appealing thing to play with, then I can guarantee you that we will be happy to oblige, as will pretty much everyone else in wh space. Now if you want my home for another reason, weather/moons/planets yada yada we now have a totally different kettle of fish and all bets are off at that point.

One last one before I go.



Serious pvp is largely what you make it to be in my opinion. I personally don't have to fish very hard simply because of what I fly. I like to fly nano/kitey things. If I screw up, 100% of the time I am dead. Your tastes may differ, but it still largely hinges on what you make out of it.

If your taste is the titan pricetag t3 brawls then yes you will have to fish very hard indeed because the number of partners left on that dance floor is very very small indeed.

It definitely went places didnt it :P
anyone with any clue seems to have stopped posting 5-6 pages ago and went to get the popcorn.

frankly the ones surprising me the most are NOHO being morons. I would have expected better :(
polarized having no clue im never surprised by ;)

To be honest, right now. So long as they do not totally wreck the coming T2 HAC/T3 rebalancing we should be provided with tons of incoming drivers as people scramble to unfiddle the new metas that will emerge.

PVE will likely get slightly more difficult if the standard tengu ball/lokidread is no longer sufficient to run sites. Prices on t3's will probably drop a bit and you will likely see people experimenting with different things for a while. Along with lots and lots of moaning about isk.

People will likely have to learn how to deal with alpha and how that will affect their invasion strategies when the supertanks are no more. Which will again fiddle with how invasions are conducted.

I think once that is more or less ironed out then CCP can take a look at doing things like adding/removing mechanics.

The moongoo idea is not really a good one because if you add low ends, they are not worth harvesting. I can make more isk doing PI on a 1 week old toon than off a low end moon. And high end moon goo in wormholes would just be full of suck because of how easy they are to defend.

Reworking the black hole effect slightly is a good idea because it provides a change of pace and opens up more habitable and usable space for people to be in. And more people means more chances for fights, or chances to stumble into an easy kill in what would otherwise be a wash.

Some people mentioned tweaking cap escalations in another thread. You could do that, however, it would probably be smarter to see how the rebalance comes out in the wash with the markets. If the market tanks there will need to be some mechanism to keep people in wh's otherwise we will see a lot of people go run risk free incursions.

The long term plans to rejigger pos's is another good idea that I like as well. Mostly for usability and backend purposes though.

no what i said at all actually.

thing is, WHs have pvp drivers. also, the pvp itself is the driver if youre doing it right. the entire argument is not valid.
issue with WHs is that the people there have grown to the point of no distinction between them and it's a massive stalemate that's made worse by most of them stepping in to prevent anyone from breaking the stalemate.

it makes no difference what CCP put into whs, moon goo, better WHs, better PI, whatever. if the mentality doesnt change the pvp wont either.
i couldnt care less if ccp add more drivers to WH space, would be great. still wouldnt change the state of wh pvp.
WH dwellers like to mock NS for their blues and huge blobs and massive alliances while in reality, WHs are no longer any different.