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Dev Blog: An Update on Bug Reporting, Part 1

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CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2013-07-04 11:43:33 UTC
Seth Toralen wrote:
So.... with migrating the bug reports to the community site.... those of us experiencing the 324 Error with logging onto all of the EVE websites will no longer be able to access bug reports. Forums only still works for some of us because of cookies that still magically work. So after that, we're left with emailed petitions I guess.

I've got bug report 158874 and bug report 163663 along with a bunch of forum activity on this issue. Slowly but surely I'm losing my ability to communicate this issue to you guys.....


We have a high priority internal defect for this issue.

Rutger Janssen wrote:
CCP Habakuk wrote:
For those, who did not receive any replies to bug reports at all: Please make sure, that the e-mail address is active, which is connected with your account.


I did not get an update when 143109 was flagged as not reproducable on the bugs front page. This is probably because it was attached to a defect. As a matter of fact, when looking at the report it self, it still says attached to defect.


Yeah, this is how the old system worked - it did not propagate the exact state of the internal defect to the bug report. Unfortunately I cannot promise, that you will get more information with the new system, but I hope that there will be less confusion. More details about this should be in future DevBlog on this topic.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
#42 - 2013-07-04 11:49:27 UTC
So, to invalid mails of the current system will be gone as well? That said-to-be multipart message, what really is not, is just invalid per RFC2046. To illustrate it:

Quote:

Return-path: blah
...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD_01CE0F48.8A792460"

Hello $username, here-is-a-BR-tag Thank you for your bugreport titled ...


So, MUAs just do one of the following:

  1. Try to guess the content type, and maybe using text/html
  2. Defaulting to text/plain, displaying some ugly stuff
  3. Defaulting to text/html, displaying as you intend it to be
  4. Just do a WTF.

Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2013-07-04 11:50:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Rutger Janssen
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Seth Toralen wrote:
So.... with migrating the bug reports to the community site.... those of us experiencing the 324 Error with logging onto all of the EVE websites will no longer be able to access bug reports. Forums only still works for some of us because of cookies that still magically work. So after that, we're left with emailed petitions I guess.

I've got bug report 158874 and bug report 163663 along with a bunch of forum activity on this issue. Slowly but surely I'm losing my ability to communicate this issue to you guys.....


We have a high priority internal defect for this issue.

Rutger Janssen wrote:
CCP Habakuk wrote:
For those, who did not receive any replies to bug reports at all: Please make sure, that the e-mail address is active, which is connected with your account.


I did not get an update when 143109 was flagged as not reproducable on the bugs front page. This is probably because it was attached to a defect. As a matter of fact, when looking at the report it self, it still says attached to defect.


Yeah, this is how the old system worked - it did not propagate the exact state of the internal defect to the bug report. Unfortunately I cannot promise, that you will get more information with the new system, but I hope that there will be less confusion. More details about this should be in future DevBlog on this topic.


Could you give me an update on it though? (143109) Really, REALLY want to know what has been tried (Did a BH/dev actually try more than just installing a job?) I don't care about the materials I lost, I just want to know that it has been locked at properly.

Materials disappearing shouldn't just be ignored, just because you tried to install a manufactering job 100 times when you need to have the process delayed by the server.
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#44 - 2013-07-04 13:58:07 UTC
Rutger Janssen wrote:
Could you give me an update on it though? (143109) Really, REALLY want to know what has been tried (Did a BH/dev actually try more than just installing a job?) I don't care about the materials I lost, I just want to know that it has been locked at properly.

Materials disappearing shouldn't just be ignored, just because you tried to install a manufactering job 100 times when you need to have the process delayed by the server.


I don't know exactly how the dev tried to reproduce it. From a quick glance at the defect I can understand that it would be quite difficult to find the correct type of lag to reproduce it (assuming that it was caused by lag).

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#45 - 2013-07-04 14:16:31 UTC
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ZAPP! Shocked
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2013-07-04 14:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rutger Janssen
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Rutger Janssen wrote:
Could you give me an update on it though? (143109) Really, REALLY want to know what has been tried (Did a BH/dev actually try more than just installing a job?) I don't care about the materials I lost, I just want to know that it has been locked at properly.

Materials disappearing shouldn't just be ignored, just because you tried to install a manufactering job 100 times when you need to have the process delayed by the server.


I don't know exactly how the dev tried to reproduce it. From a quick glance at the defect I can understand that it would be quite difficult to find the correct type of lag to reproduce it (assuming that it was caused by lag).


Thank you so much for looking into it. Are you allowed to use the isk send to your character for your player characters? If not, give me a character name and I'll send it 250m isk.

It was either:
1. Server lag(the system was on a node which was under stress by a fleet fight) caused the job to time out.
2. Repackaging a R.A.M. that the server had just assembled(Which I was able to do because of the mentioned lag) which would later be consumed by the process but because it went missing the installation process failed.

Which is why I've been telling from the start, that just reproduction is a waste of time, and the dev should introduce a delay on the assembling and repacking of the R.A.M. (easiest way I imagine) if he really needed to reproduce it. I had asked that to be done on the test server but CCP Goliath said it would be done internally. (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1917463#post1917463) I want to make sure this was (properly) done as that info might have gotten lost in my plea to get it attached to a defect :(

But even it couldn't be reproduced, how the hell was there no entry in the logs that I started installing the job when all the GMs say there should have been once materials started being used?

I'm not questioning the compentency of the devs involved, it's just that I know I lost materials and was ignored for so long and just closed without properly looking into it, I kinda lost faith :(

And before someone says that server performance improved, the underlying issue would still be there.

I've heared rumors that CCP Blacklight/Backlight(not sure which one it was) was looking at it after another player with better contacts reported it, but don't know if that's true or not :(

Is there any chance you can ask the dev to drop me an ingame mail or reply here? (250m for you, 500m for the dev himself if he contacts me).
Ivan Davis
Luna Free State
#47 - 2013-07-04 21:02:44 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Yes, the mailbox is being read for sure. Please send all security relevant information there.


Well, that's good to know... would be nice if messages sent there were acknowledged in some way.

Even an automated "Your message has been received" is better than wondering if a carefully thought-out and well written report has just.... disappeared into a blackhole.
catallin
Bite Me inc
#48 - 2013-07-05 12:14:45 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:


We are not pushing out too many updates to EVE over the next few weeks, and don‘t anticipate many new issues arising.



I see what you did there Roll
Ydnari
Estrale Frontiers
#49 - 2013-07-06 13:37:35 UTC
One issue seems to have arisen during the week, the Split Stack option when creating contracts no longer works

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=256044&find=unread

Hoping that gets picked up by a dev, it's putting a real damper on our ability to get minerals onto courier contracts

--
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
#50 - 2013-07-06 14:24:41 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
We are not pushing out too many updates to EVE over the next few weeks, and don‘t anticipate many new issues arising

And then you broke stack splitting.
Oraac Ensor
#51 - 2013-07-07 15:01:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Quote:
Firstly, the existing bug reporting site will be no longer be used to collect EVE bug reports. It didn‘t fit with our modern web presence, so our wonderful web team Roundhouse Kick are redesigning new pages from scratch to be a better tool for players that want to let us know about issues they encounter. As a consequence of this, we will also be disabling the In Game Bug Reporter (IGBR) located in the Help menu, until Team Superfriends has it ready to work with our new system. This all means that we will effectively be „going dark“ on bug reports for a couple of weeks, meaning that any reports that you create before we go live with the new solutions, will not be processed.
What dunce decided this was a reasonable course of action?

Normal practice would to wait until the new system was ready before disabling the old one.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#52 - 2013-07-07 18:01:22 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Quote:
Firstly, the existing bug reporting site will be no longer be used to collect EVE bug reports. It didn‘t fit with our modern web presence, so our wonderful web team Roundhouse Kick are redesigning new pages from scratch to be a better tool for players that want to let us know about issues they encounter. As a consequence of this, we will also be disabling the In Game Bug Reporter (IGBR) located in the Help menu, until Team Superfriends has it ready to work with our new system. This all means that we will effectively be „going dark“ on bug reports for a couple of weeks, meaning that any reports that you create before we go live with the new solutions, will not be processed.
What dunce decided this was a reasonable course of action?

Normal practice would to wait until the new system was ready before disabling the old one.


Unfortunately the new defect tracking system is not compatible with the old bug reporting site. The defect tracking system had to get rolled out when it did so as to not impact a release cycle, but the pages and igbr weren't ready, so going dark was the option. As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum. FYI, saying "person" or "developer" in place of your redundant insult would have made your post 100% more pleasant to reply to.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Molic Blackbird
Orion Faction Industries
Orion Consortium
#53 - 2013-07-07 21:55:28 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:


As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum.


If you can anticipate introducing serious issue, you wouldn't need any bug reporting system. There were a few bugs introduced with the July 2nd patch; one of which affects a great number of industrialist in the game. That would be the ability to remotely split stacks when making a contract. From the sounds of it, there is little likelihood of those bugs getting fixed any time soon.
Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2013-07-07 22:11:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rutger Janssen
Molic Blackbird wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:


As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum.


If you can anticipate introducing serious issue, you wouldn't need any bug reporting system. There were a few bugs introduced with the July 2nd patch; one of which affects a great number of industrialist in the game. That would be the ability to remotely split stacks when making a contract. From the sounds of it, there is little likelihood of those bugs getting fixed any time soon.


There's a difference between serious issues and issues. (There are usually more categories than that). So that you need bug reporting system because you don't expect serious issues is false, as you still expect issues.

Whether or not splitting stacks is classified as serious is unknown. It doesn't prevent people from playing, there's a workaround (fly to the station) and only small set of players is affected by it (based on the number of forum posts). (off-topic, to me it seems a server bug based on the logserver output)

Personally, I don't have any expectation when it comes to the fixing of small things. As I mentioned, some of those that I reported are not fixed more than 2 years later.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2013-07-07 22:39:08 UTC
Molic Blackbird wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:


As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum.


If you can anticipate introducing serious issue, you wouldn't need any bug reporting system. There were a few bugs introduced with the July 2nd patch; one of which affects a great number of industrialist in the game. That would be the ability to remotely split stacks when making a contract. From the sounds of it, there is little likelihood of those bugs getting fixed any time soon.


I'm on vacation, so don't know the status of the issue. My point with introducing issues is that there are no large updates planned during the bug reporting downtime, so the chance of introducing anything is incredibly small, thus my decision regarding not needing a reporting system in this time.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#56 - 2013-07-08 06:48:30 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Unfortunately the new defect tracking system is not compatible with the old bug reporting site. The defect tracking system had to get rolled out when it did so as to not impact a release cycle, but the pages and igbr weren't ready, so going dark was the option. As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum. FYI, saying "person" or "developer" in place of your redundant insult would have made your post 100% more pleasant to reply to.

The above underlined & bolded statement is a colossally stupid thing to say. Or did you really mean to imply that there are occasions where CCP anticipates introducing serious issues but proceeds anyway?

If the "pages and igbr" aren't ready then delay the introduction of the new defect tracking system until they are. Stop cutting corners and maybe your rate of really stupid mistakes will go down (witness: recent unintentional unloading of a fleet fight system).

MDD
Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2013-07-08 10:46:51 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:

The above underlined & bolded statement is a colossally stupid thing to say. Or did you really mean to imply that there are occasions where CCP anticipates introducing serious issues but proceeds anyway?

Do you have any experience with game development or software development? When you make a change, there's a risk something goes wrong. Sure, you can test the hell out of it, but that costs money and time, something that might not be worth it considering the risk and expected fallout.

Often, when you make a small change, you don't expect big issues (although that definatly happens). When you rewrite complete classes, introduce new features you often anticipate more serious issues due to it's complexity and size and have it tested better.

So, I read CCP Goliath statement as that there won't be any large changes, new features etc in the coming weeks. Possibly not even small changes as all the developers are on holiday to recover from the crunch period. Ofcourse I can be wrong as I'm not CCP Goliath or know what actually happens at CCP.


As for delaying the defect tracking system, in my opinion, it doesn't matter. It already took months to have reports processed and years to get some stuff fixed, can't get much worse *knocks on wood*.
Oraac Ensor
#58 - 2013-07-08 23:45:33 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Unfortunately the new defect tracking system is not compatible with the old bug reporting site. The defect tracking system had to get rolled out when it did so as to not impact a release cycle, but the pages and igbr weren't ready, so going dark was the option. As I mentioned in the devblog, we don't anticipate introducing any serious issues, and even then we still have the issues forum. FYI, saying "person" or "developer" in place of your redundant insult would have made your post 100% more pleasant to reply to.

Dress it up any way you like - what you describe indicates a lack of intelligent planning.
Zlipnut
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2013-07-10 17:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Zlipnut
So, where do I now report serious bugs ?

Like, eve client now crashes at every jump gate with the message "Socket was closed" and also every time I try to dock at a station.

So, basically unplayable at the moment !!!Cry
Rutger Janssen
Chanuur
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2013-07-10 18:25:07 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23323 for socket closed issues ( the last reply there might help). For all other issues, the same subforum that thread is in: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=272