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CCP Any changes to Mining for Winter 2012?

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Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#121 - 2011-10-26 17:24:55 UTC
bump for this thread
Belisarius Xenophon
Buzzkill Joy Club
#122 - 2011-10-26 17:50:42 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:

It would also be nice to have asteroids appear as just "Asteroid" without the "Asteroid (Veldspar)" designation in the overview giving away what kind of ore the rock contains. In ice fields, this could be exploited to hide worthless ice amongst valuable ice (worthless ice could be 10% yield of normal ice, or simply produce useless ore that refines to water or nothing).




A twist on this would be to have rarer ores hidden inside common asteroids. You would need greater scanning/surveying skill to detect the rare ore inside the common ore. Make the mining crystals and whatnot even more specific to their own ore, so that you can't mine these rare ores without having the correct crystal. If there is a Veldspar asteroid with a little of a rarer ore, if you just mine the Veldspar then the rare ore will be destroyed. Require mining the rarer ore with the correct crystal first. The process of mining the rarer ore destroys some of the common ore in the process -- perhaps a percentage based on the type of rare ore and then modified by mining skill. Mining the common ore first would also reduce the amount of rare ore available should somone leave an asteroid partially mined.

Requiring mining the rare ore first would hopefully reduce some botting as a bot program would have to fit each crystal and then try to mine each asteroid for each type of ore. As an additional incentive to scan/survey, have attempting to mine a non-existent ore do damage to the crystal, the ore, and/or mining fitting.
MNagy
Yo-Mama
#123 - 2011-10-26 17:57:45 UTC
This is just an idea ---

Would be cool if somehow a 'corp' can "claim" a number of rocks in a roid belt. ( lets say 5 rocks ) for 24 hours.
Those rocks are un-claimable for 24 hours ( unless they are mined fully thru ).

Once you have 5 rocks fully claimed - you cannot claim a 6th until one of the other rocks 'claim timer' has expired or the rock is fully mined.

So now lets say someone in CorpA jumps to a roid belt. ( or a scanned down roid belt ). They can 'claim' certain rocks.

Other ships can challenge the claim - so someone now in CorpB comes along and right clicks on a rock someone is mining in CorpA. They want to lay claim to same rock.

CorpA has 2 choices....
1. let go of claim -
2. dispute - at which time ALL ships TOONS from CorpA and CorpB within the solar system have pvp rights on eachother only within the system until one of the Corps lets go of the claim.
-By default if no response is given (on a timer on some kind of a question or soemthing) a dispute of claim occurs. (Why you may ask the 'dispute' is the default?... If you see what you think is a bot miner? - claim his rock he is mining - and pew pew him).

Any toons entering the system after the initial disputed claim 'CANNOT' battle and are netural.

Mining suddenly got a little bit of pvp in it
Corp now has a co-operative goal to defend a roid belt.
AFK mining is a little bit of past and it gives the EVE COMMUNITY a chance to fight bot mining validly.

A tiny corp can still compete - either in small pvp battles - or let go of the claim and mine less valueable rocks.
Or go to the system over and mine there. There are plenty of roid belts.

The idea is morsoe to fight a bit of bot mining - but add some 'excitement' to mining as well.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#124 - 2011-10-26 18:03:03 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I Accidentally YourShip wrote:


What this game needs is logi support that can INCREASE your existing EHP. Not just repair damage, alpha strike makes that pointless. But if you had logistics that say would overload your shield or harden your armor with some sort of physics defying beam then this would indirectly make soft ships harder targets with the proper support. It would also help defend other things from alpha strikes since they would need to bring more and more, making it less cost effective. There would of course have to be tactics and counter-measures to it as well like ECMing the logi ship or killing it first but it would give the defenders an actual ability to defend, and not just retaliate which I believe is really pointless.

If you fly to protect a ship you should be able to actually protect it, so EHP increasing logi ships would be useful.


Command ships already do this.


Only by a small amount. I think the idea here is what you see in some si fi movies: One ship gets close to the ship to be defended and "extends shields".

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Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#125 - 2011-10-26 18:06:55 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
Gheng Kondur wrote:
Avila Cracko wrote:
to update list of that guy before:

- make belts so that you must scan them... i dont think botts can do scanning very well... (maybe add some more statics on scans too so that you must have brain to see its only static)
- static belts have only very small roids for new players... (strips dont have use if it)
- when you left scanned belt its gone... you must scan again...
- make roid stealing criminal act so you can shoot that person - botts dont see what roid you mine...
- make fleeting with other players and making real ops more rewarding then solo mining (orca boost better) - botts dont fleet
- Boost rats - botts have more problems with defending themself then real people, and it would be more involving.


for 1, well I already do that, it's called grav sites. But more with basic ore would make it work.
for 2, good call,
for 3, no thanks, why would it just vanish when not mined out
for 4, would work better if you staked your claim on the field you scan down
for 5, ok, but remember the loan miners
for 6, escalation would be better. Those unthinking bots that sit and tank should find themselves being swarmed as the word goes out that the pirates have found somebody asleep. Couple of high sec rats easily tanked, but more and better as they swarm, and bye bye bot hulk.

For other comments about micro games etc., I already have that, it's called goon spotting and I don't need anything distracting me from that



thnx for responce...

about 1st.
that is the point... all larger roids (all ores that can be in that system) are in grav sites.

about 2nd.
Thnx.

about 3rd.
Thats because i was thinking about botters... bot user can scan down many belts in the morning and then make bot to mine in them all day... this way you need to scan... or mine with friend so that you can keep belt alive... (i dont think about dead as soon as you warp out... but dead some time (10 minutes or so) so that if you just want to unload and warp back... you can)

about 4th.
there need some work to be done on that sugestions so that ppl that want easy kills dont exploit that systems.

about 5th.
i dont think about making it that you can only mine in fleet but a little more boost would help and would show players the way to socialisation (this is MMO)

about 6th.
a little boost (maybe scram) and escalation would be the best... every mining ship can use drones that easily kill rats.



not bad...
Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#126 - 2011-10-26 18:11:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Sirius Cassiopeiae
p.s.

one thought fell on my mind reading post few posts up...
why are there names of ores in overview???
why names of ores we can see at all???
make it so that we must visual distinguish which ore is which in space and mine them like this...
miners know what veldspar looks like in space, equip strip miner with proper mining crystal it...
botts cant see in 3D graphic (in space) which roid is which ore... and they could use only T1 miners that dont use crystals because that... less ore for botts... and we could easier distinguish botts...

and if you want afk mine
CCP can help ppl to afk (more or less) mine by one simple thing... make that mining ship can lock more roids... that way ppl can visualy see what ores they want to mine, lock it and then afk mine for a little till you dont kill that roids...
Hrald
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#127 - 2011-10-26 18:25:56 UTC
The mining problem is going to be fixed. ROF penalties are going to be removed from destroyers.
MNagy
Yo-Mama
#128 - 2011-10-26 18:32:16 UTC
Hrald wrote:
The mining problem is going to be fixed. ROF penalties are going to be removed from destroyers.


Whats ROF mean?
Hrald
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#129 - 2011-10-26 18:33:17 UTC
rate of fire Big smile
Gheng Kondur
Serva Fidem
#130 - 2011-10-26 18:38:06 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
Gheng Kondur wrote:
Avila Cracko wrote:
to update list of that guy before:

- make belts so that you must scan them... i dont think botts can do scanning very well... (maybe add some more statics on scans too so that you must have brain to see its only static)
- static belts have only very small roids for new players... (strips dont have use if it)
- when you left scanned belt its gone... you must scan again...
- make roid stealing criminal act so you can shoot that person - botts dont see what roid you mine...
- make fleeting with other players and making real ops more rewarding then solo mining (orca boost better) - botts dont fleet
- Boost rats - botts have more problems with defending themself then real people, and it would be more involving.


for 1, well I already do that, it's called grav sites. But more with basic ore would make it work.
for 2, good call,
for 3, no thanks, why would it just vanish when not mined out
for 4, would work better if you staked your claim on the field you scan down
for 5, ok, but remember the loan miners
for 6, escalation would be better. Those unthinking bots that sit and tank should find themselves being swarmed as the word goes out that the pirates have found somebody asleep. Couple of high sec rats easily tanked, but more and better as they swarm, and bye bye bot hulk.

For other comments about micro games etc., I already have that, it's called goon spotting and I don't need anything distracting me from that



thnx for responce...

about 1st.
that is the point... all larger roids (all ores that can be in that system) are in grav sites.

about 2nd.
Thnx.

about 3rd.
Thats because i was thinking about botters... bot user can scan down many belts in the morning and then make bot to mine in them all day... this way you need to scan... or mine with friend so that you can keep belt alive... (i dont think about dead as soon as you warp out... but dead some time (10 minutes or so) so that if you just want to unload and warp back... you can)

about 4th.
there need some work to be done on that sugestions so that ppl that want easy kills dont exploit that systems.

about 5th.
i dont think about making it that you can only mine in fleet but a little more boost would help and would show players the way to socialisation (this is MMO)

about 6th.
a little boost (maybe scram) and escalation would be the best... every mining ship can use drones that easily kill rats.


Getting there, few points to iron out but for bots, but we would need some ccp input there. Any timing would also help bots if they stay after initial scan down work, but needed or miners will spend more time scanning than mining, particularly solos.

It would take somebody with more technical knowledge than me to beat the bot AI without making that getting in the way of mining.

As long as we keep low yield fields for noobs in their frigs, and a lot less than are currently static, should create a good base for a change. Think we need ICE only in grav sites though to stop the major bot grinds there too
Generals4
#131 - 2011-10-26 18:47:29 UTC
Hrald wrote:
The mining problem is going to be fixed. ROF penalties are going to be removed from destroyers.


Yay fixed mining!

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Baraka Saibot
Wobbling Frog Inc
#132 - 2011-10-26 19:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Baraka Saibot
Add a lot of of worthless, unmineable asteroids to the belts, all the valuable asteroids are mostly in the middle of the belt.

Now the miner has to navigate through the maze of asteroids into the middle to get close enough to the valuable ores. And make it so you can't make bookmarks/warp inside the middle of the belts.

Maybe Increase the agility of mining ships.
Tetragammatron Prime
Pink Sockers
#133 - 2011-10-26 19:38:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tetragammatron Prime
Change all high sec belts to veldpsar roids (perhaps low quality).

Make grav sites the only place in high sec you can get anything better quality.

Mining fixed imo.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2011-10-26 19:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
CCP needs to be really careful about all the buffs they are doing to gank ships........ they might find subs will go down as people ditch unusable mining toon accounts

A lot of Exumer and mining barge manufacturers will eventually go out of business too

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Adunh Slavy
#135 - 2011-10-26 19:58:31 UTC
Whatever ideas come up, remember to never trust the client. Sad fact, cause lots of fun things could be done, but it is a required limit.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#136 - 2011-10-26 20:06:14 UTC
As an exploration fiend, here is a chance to push my agenda....

You wanna really make mining interesting and more interactive?

How many asteroids were once planets?

How many planets were inhabited once? What happened to them? Could there be clues to what happened 23000 years ago?

Clues into sleeper tech? Ancient tech?

Start seeding roids with artifacts that require archeology modules to access - such that when an artifact is located, no further mining is possible in the roid until it is analyzed (perhaps some CONCORD directive....).

Not only does this make mining more interactive, it would also increase the payout - the chance to find something interesting and expensive.

Perhaps even one-of-a-kind storyline objects, something related to live events.

I would even imagine that attempting to analyze ancient sites dug out of the rocks would trigger ancient security systems - old turrets and drones. Some easy, some really really hard....
It also sets up a situation where bots have to do more than be a rock vacuum.

That would be as much challenge to living miners and making things very hard on bots too.


Best of all, mining stops being so blasted boring. The prospect of finding something that might even put you on the news, if not make you richer, the chance of being attacked by some ancient security system - the need for help, for archeology and combat help possibly. Mining corps that use combat ships for this regard can now have a use for such players, making a need for real corps with mining and combatant elements where the risk of suicide ganking has not proven to be enough to motivate them to deploy armed defenses.

I think only those who base their entire game on how fast a ship can suck rocks and it's only about sucking rocks and nothing else will rage about having to stop and perform an archeological dig or fight off some ancient drones defending an uncovered site.
I hope the goons note their names well.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2011-10-26 22:07:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Elanor Vega
David Grogan wrote:
CCP needs to be really careful about all the buffs they are doing to gank ships........ they might find subs will go down as people ditch unusable mining toon accounts

A lot of Exumer and mining barge manufacturers will eventually go out of business too



Yea CCP... look at and think about things you are doing from all perspectives...
tier3 BC and destroyer buff is something that mining ships are not prepared for -> T1 ships that are not $$$ and yet get isk from insurance for illegal act and have a lot DPS -> and no changes to mining/miners -> a lot suicide ganks in Hi-sec
Dax Golem
Frozen Dawn Inc
#138 - 2011-10-26 22:48:04 UTC
Making mining more "inter-active" would be a nice idea:
- Monitor mining laser so they dont overheat by doing X thing and switching Y settings.
- Mining yeld could be better with active playing with the settings.

- Make NPC corporations form mining op fleets with npc ship protection -> Challenge for pirates to attack such fleet.
- Hiring an NPC for protection and/or doing ore cargo runs for % of the mining profits or flat out sum of isk/h

You are now breathing manually
Velicitia
XS Tech
#139 - 2011-10-26 23:04:30 UTC
some good ideas so far =]

The trouble with making mining more interactive is that you can make it "too interactive" -- in that the miners have to get so focused on mining that they aren't paying as much attention to their surroundings. This makes them easier to gank (which is bad, imo). So some balance needs struck so miners can continue to pay attention to their surroundings...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#140 - 2011-10-27 00:29:14 UTC
I suspect I'm one of several exceptions to the 'normal mining' rule.

I have 4 accounts. I mine with 4 ships. Usually some combination of Hulks, Orcas, haulers, and battleships, depending on whether I'm mining in Hi Sec or Low.

For me, changing crystals, re-aiming lasers, keeping the rats off and flying the hauler are usually enough to keep me busy.

If CCP makes it impossible for me to run more than one client at a time, I might get concerned about making mining more interactive. Right now that's the least of my worries.

If you want to know why I mine like that, check the price on a Rorqual, an Anshar, and a spare for each. (Remember, don't fly what you can't afford to lose.)