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[Odyssey 1.1] Skill group name changes

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Sofia Roseburn
Verdant Inquiries
#81 - 2013-07-04 00:16:13 UTC
Don't fix what isn't broken.
Just Lilly
#82 - 2013-07-04 00:20:54 UTC
The new skill structure, have the touch and logic of a 12 year old to them Blink

Should atleast be a little easier for new players to wrap their heads around.

Maybe.
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Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#83 - 2013-07-04 00:34:50 UTC
What the **** was wrong with Spaceship Command?
AnarchoCap Ahashion
Tax Haven Shhh
#84 - 2013-07-04 00:41:01 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:



Nanite Control: has been renamed "Neurotoxin Control" to make it clearer it's a booster related skill and not something tied with overheading(nanite repair paste comes to mind).
SKILL GROUP CHANGES

All the other skills groups (Corporation Management, Drones, Gunnery, Leadership, Navigation, Scoial, Trade) stay the same, except for skills that were moved out of them into one of the new groups mentioned above.

Implants > Skill Harviring: sorted harwiring implants to match the groups above.


The ones that are like so are incorrect.


  • overheating
  • Social
  • Hardwiring
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#85 - 2013-07-04 00:47:50 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※

Keep Electronics and Engineering names the same... might just be nestalgia but never heard they were a problem... seems quite straightforward to me.

Targeting - Target Acquisition

Multitasking - Advanced Target Acquisition

※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※※


Changing electronics and engineering while not necessary the proposed renames are better.

Target Acquistion doesnt necessarily bring additional targets to mind, it brings to mind improvement in lock time or lock distance and not the number of ships you can lock.

same for your Adv. Target Acquisition idea.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-07-04 00:51:46 UTC
Excellent. I'm sure veterans will be perturbed by these changes, but it's better for the game in the long term.
My brother recently started playing and complained about the lack of a 'skill tree', so that newer players could get an idea of skill progression in the game. I pointed him at the certificates section, which sort of does that, but I think it'd be good to clean it up a bit Smile

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#87 - 2013-07-04 00:52:04 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Don't change this ::

Spaceship Command - Keep it. We understand it. Unnecessary change. We are commanding a spaceship. Period, the end.


Please seriously Consider This


Targeting - Multiple Targeting sounds clunky. It needs another iteration. "Target Management" makes it sound like you can manage more targets, just as "CPU Management" lets you have more CPU.

Multitasking - I agree, bad name. "Advanced Target Management".

Keep the subsystems group. They're unique and are the only group you can lose skillpoints in. Mixing them with the riggings isn't a good idea.


Other Thoughts

Electronics - CPU Management - I agree with a comment above, that it seems like it's a very broad underlying skill. However, I think clarity is more important in this case than anything else.

Nanite Control - I agree, has confused me many times when I'm looking for Nanite Repair skills.


Have to disagree here, Multiple targeting gets right to the point in no uncertain terms, while the more vague 'management' could mean almost anything really.

Same for Adv. target mgmt idea, too vague a title.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Danhiil Xadi
Tri-empire Trading
#88 - 2013-07-04 00:52:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Danhiil Xadi
Okay I've had a little time to think and here's what I've come up with:

Firstly echoing what everyone else is saying "Spaceship Command" is way better don't you dare change it. (I also think it's more lore friendly as the larger ships have crews you need to command, you wouldn't be flying them yourself. Most people want to play Kirk not Sulu)

Engineering/ Electronics -> CPU/Power-grid Management

Okay in theory however the existing skill descriptions talk about your skill at operating the relevant system so I'd say that CPU/Powergrid Optimisation fits a bit better.

Targeting / Multitasking -> Multiple targeting / Advanced multiple targeting

Just no that sounds really dumb. I'd agree they need changing but I'd suggest Targeting systems operation / Advanced targeting systems operation

Nanite control -> Neurotoxin Control

Yes, Nanite control sounds like it should be to do with repair paste, Neurotoxin Control still doesn't make it obvious what it does though. I'm struggling to think of anything better the closest I can come up with is "Side effect Mitigation" but that's really clunky.

I'm okay with the groups as a whole but I'd say keep PI as it's own group and rather than "Resource processing" use "Resource Harvesting" as processing isn't a logical place to find mining skills.

Keep up the good work

Edit: Another thought just struck me rather than "Neural Enhancement" maybe "Biological Enhancement" or "Medical Science" it's a little broader, and more friendly to skills related to clones or expansion later if you ever wanted to add other ways to improve your character in future expansions that are not implant based.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#89 - 2013-07-04 00:59:38 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:

Have to disagree here, Multiple targeting gets right to the point in no uncertain terms, while the more vague 'management' could mean almost anything really.

Same for Adv. target mgmt idea, too vague a title.

this is eve online, where we fit Alumel Omni ECCM Sensor Array to our ships. a little less clarity in the name of a skill is a fair price to pay for not feeling like an idiot while talking about it. multiple targeting sounds like multiple sclerosis and has to go away.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Soren Chelien
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-07-04 01:05:50 UTC
"Spaceship Piloting" sounds a bit off, now "Space Command" is a name with power to it.
Darth Kilth
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2013-07-04 01:11:42 UTC
Am I the only one who kind of prefers the skills/skillgroups sounding a bit more in-universe?
Systems Online
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-07-04 01:12:51 UTC
I do not like a skill name starting with an acronym. Pronouncing "SEE PEE YOU" Management. is just awkward.

I suggest "Processor Management" "Electronics Management" "Electronics Systems Operation" or something like that.


+1 for KEEPING "SPACE SHIP COMMAND" there is NO reason to change this.

+1 for Target Management instead of "Multiple Targeting"
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#93 - 2013-07-04 01:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Quote:
Engineering: now has all skills related with energy management and fittings in general.

Contains the Advanced Weapon Upgrades and Weapon Upgrades skills [snipped for space].


1. Weapon Upgrades has always been a vague title so it needs changed (same with Adv. Wpn. Upgrades).

2. Minmatar often don't need weapon upgrades but do need Advanced Weapon Upgrades and skilling up to 5 in a skill you dont need is painful, please rename both weapon upgrades and Adv. weapon Upgrades and then remove weapon upgrades as a prerequisite for Advanced weapon upgrades as they have nothing to do with one another, completely different aspects of fitting weapons.

whereas the semantics of naming wpn upgrades and adv. wpn upgrades and where they ultimately end up in the skill tree is relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things, the second suggestion to unhook wpn. upgrades as a prerequisite for adv. wpn. upgrades is absolutely vital.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Lockefox
EVE Prosper Market Analysis
Prosper Investment Bank
#94 - 2013-07-04 01:13:40 UTC
Really glad to see skills getting a once-over for understandings sake.

One feature I think was missed here though is balancing this reorganization against skill attributes.

Far and away, the current system is attributes are grouped by skill group:

Mechanic: Memory/Intelligence
Weapons: Perception/Willpower
Science: Intelligence/Memory
... etc

And with the current grouping we're crossing a lot of streams. PI skills do not have the same attribute pairs as scanning (Command Center Upgrades/Interplanetary Consolidation have Charisma/Intelligence). Weapon Upgrades does not have the same pairing as the rest of the fitting skills...

I think it might be worth while to evaluate the attribute pairs as well in this pass. If players can already pick skills in groups that make sense, shouldn't it be a priority to enable them to balance their attributes with those goals?

Second:
There are a lot of skills that are kind of ambiguous in their bonuses and use. Pairs like Energy Management and Energy Systems Operation can be somewhat confusing to newer players. Is there any consideration being paid to either changing the skill names, or pairing down/combining some skills? Personally, I'd love an attention to re balancing skills/ranks/attributes of the same magnitude as the recent T1 ship balances, but that's fiddling with the backbone of EVE.


Outside of those two points, I think this is an excellent change! Less overhead and confusion is better for everyone!
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#95 - 2013-07-04 01:20:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Echo Mande wrote:
So so but needs more work.

Some commentary:

What is Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration doing in Electronic systems?
Why did Industrial Reconfiguration end up in resource processing?
Both of these skills really ought to be elsewhere. TLR probably belongs in Armor or Engineering (along with tactical weapons reconfiguration) and IR probably belongs in Production or Engineering.

As far as groups go, maybe armor and shield should be combined in 'Protection'.

I'm missing quite a number of skills (Cynosural field theory to name one)


"Protection" is a vague term as ECM is also a form of protection.

Keeping Armor and Shields separated is appropriate i dont want to look through a huge list of armor skills as a shield pilot.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#96 - 2013-07-04 01:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
removed as poster retracted his statement.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Defiant Blessings
Game.Theory
GameTheory
#97 - 2013-07-04 01:36:58 UTC
  1. Spaceship Command +1
  2. Target Acquisition / Advanced Target Acquisition +1
  3. Subsystem skills independent category +1
  4. Planetary Interaction skills independent category +1

My personal thoughts:
Thanks alot, I just started a video series using all these old names. Big smile

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pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2013-07-04 01:38:51 UTC
every third party dev dealing with skills just slit their wrists

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#99 - 2013-07-04 01:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Isara Aulx-Gao wrote:
Whoa never change a running system.
why .... tell me why we need new names for the skills??
This is EVE, a harsh place to live, and not Hello Kitty in Space, let the new Player learn the old Names.

Damm next time comes the win button for new Players, because they can´t fly a Titan in 5 Days.

NO Mainstream ****


Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
More dumbing down it seems. You asked for advice about certificates and come back with this **** when no one to my knowledge has ever complained about the skill names or descriptions.

I do not want eve to be welcoming and easy to understand for noobs. The fact that it is hard to understand and requires some intellect is where we the community get our quality control from.

This is not hello ******* kitty online. The day it starts to resemble it is the day you will lose your hardcore player base. We eve players are a cut above the players of other mmos, were all elite players; even the noobs that decide to stick with eve because it's unique and beautiful and hard to master.



Next time just type:

SBVP

(Standard Bitter Vet Post)

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures
#100 - 2013-07-04 01:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Yazzinra
spaceship command, not piloting.

keep the PI tree together. seriously, less booze when discussing changes.


also, who wants to start the pool on how many skills you currently have at 5 end up at 0, or not showing up at all.