Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I say instead of improving the skill names now, just add it to the to-do list for 1.2 or even the next expansion, and do the rest that was suggested also.
-dividing up skill effects into more specialized skills with smaller training time multipliers.
-A few more exciting names sprinkled where it makes sense (fex afterburner skill that increase AB speed should perhaps be something exciting sounding, like something Scotty would do just before he says "I'm giving it all she's got captain!").
-I agree with much of what the opposition say about changing grouping etc, but many things will make far more sense to regroup when the effects from skills are split up into individual skills.
So as is now, I would say regrouping is not strictly necessary, but will be required after splitting skill effects into their own skills. So no point bothering with grouping and renaming it now only to have to do it all again later. But before the skill effects can be divided up the new skills and their effects must be written down, that's a few days work at least (they also need to specify how existing skills transfer into the new skills).
So get cracking on that and post a draft for review and I'm sure we'll try to be as helpful and constructive as possible.

PS: There's probably a few other good points, but these are the three that stuck out as tangible improvements.

PPS: Electricians use high current and low current to distinguish between powergrid stuff and electronics stuff. Maybe this could be a useful distinction in Eve void of abbreviations?

PPPS: Capacitor-bank management is what electricians do when keeping the maximum capacitor-bank capacity as high as possible. Power-core management would be the thing that fills the capacitor bank up a little per second. Possibilities for an exciting name for power-core management (given the concept of what it is).
EDIT: Power-core management could have far more interesting names and explanations if all races had proper power core reactors. Amarr has antimatter, minmatar has nuclear reactors (should be renamed to fission reactor), gallente has fusion reactor, and caldari has graviton reactor (which can't produce power in any theoretical sense). Give the antimatter thing to caldari and give the slow amarr singularity reactors which would be heaviest of the four. Singularity reactors can actually produce power by dropping normal hydrogen into the tiny singularity, because of the gravity pull the gas gets compressed, heats up, produces fusion all the way up to the heaviest elements before crossing the event-horizon of the fex 1-inch diameter black hole (that would be a BS size one), where it gets ripped apart into quarks and joins the singularity which grows a tiny bit. After a while (longer than ships last) the singularity is dropped into a brown dwarf in order to slowly increase the mass of it until it ignites in a fiery fusion bomb and becomes a star. There, some text to add to the experience of Eve that actually has theoretical possibility (feasibility given that its over 20 000 years into the future). As hinted, race-specific power core management would be a thing, dunno if it would be good, but for those that don't fly other races, just one, there could be the possbility for saving some training time while still getting his/her specialization.

I am *so* glad that CCP has the developer resources available to devout to such EXTREMELY pressing issues as skill naming.

In light of the inter-relationships of the various skills, and CCP's continued typo's and errors which *still exist before this effort (for the last 10 years)*, I only imagine the can of worms that will be unleashed by scrambling the names and groups. And, so, again, I am *so* glad that CCP has the developer resources available to devout to these pressing issues.

Just takes a load off my mind, knowing that my subscription funds such efforts. Thanks CCP!

1. please quote my post where i make a claim that 'scattering PI" all over the place is a good idea. I put my support behind the general concept that change is needed, not a wholesale acceptance of everything CCP devs are considering.

2. I'll clarify the problem with your acceptance that reading the descriptions is good enough and yes i will exaggerate here to emphasis my point and make no claim that your beliefs are this extreme.

Skill One.

Skill two.

Skill Three.

Um, what do they do Maldiro? Go read the descriptions!

3. The current skills are, in some cases at least, placed in confusing locations the prime example would be Weapon Upgrades being found under 'turrets' when it is a skill that also applies to missile launchers.

There are more problems with the current skill listings and namings but this should get you thinking about why i feel they are broken and need of a fixing.

I like most of the changes suggested in the orginal post. The skill names and groupings as they are now are somewhat confusing. There are a few things I would prefer to change form the OP.

First off the "Spaceship Piloting" sounds whimpy. While it may be more accurate from a game perspective, as you don't actually command anyone to do anything, the orginal "Spaceship Command" is alot better name. And if it is thought to be something that can be confused with the "Leadership" skill group, change the "Leadership" group name to "Fleet Command" or something similar.

Secondly the splitting of an alredy existing group of P.I skills, which is very descriptive of its content, is a bad idea. While it may be a small group, I do not think this a sufficent reason to spread it's contents all around the place. The purpose of the changes is to "make skills and their associated groups easier to find, classify and understand as a whole" and this suggested change is utterly conter-productive toward this end. And incase there will be new skills that affect P.I or something else with planets (or moons) these hypothetical skills would have a suitable group alredy.

Thirdly the names "Multiple Targeting" and "Advanced Multiple Targeting" don't sound right. Try "Multi Targeting" and "Advanced Multi Targeting." In my opinion they sound alot better and are just as good at describing what the skills do.

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As for some (some not ALL) of the objections I'v come against the proposed changes. They seem to read:

"I can find the skills I need just fine. So can All other existing players. Changing them will mean I have to learn the new locations."

This is pretty mutch the same argument I came across against the Odyssey BD and dessy skill changes. "I" like things as they are. "I" don't want anything to change. "I" don't want to have to learn anything new. "I" am the spokesperson for everyone who isn't saying otherwise.

I think the proposed change will make it easier for new players and players who haven't comited the contents of all skill trees into memory, to find relevant skills.


Also:




Second also:
Sorry about the typos. I'm too lazy to proofread this thing.

YOU GOT THESE RIGHT:
CPU Management
Power Grid Management
Neurotoxin Control
Armor
Engineering
Missiles
Production
Ship Modification
Scanning
Shields
Targeting
Outpost Construction


RENAME THESE:
Targeting > Multi-Targeting
Multitasking > Advanced Multi-Targeting
Energy Pulse Weapons > Smartbomb Operation
Electronic Systems > revert to Electronics or Electronic Warfare
Infomorph Psychology > Jump Clone Operation
Spaceship Piloting > Ship Command or Ship Control (both the category and skill)
Science > Advanced Production
Daytrading > ? Remote x
Procurement > ? Remote x
Visibility > ? Remote x


RELOCATE THESE:
Cynosaural Field Theory > Science (will fit in with Jump Portal Generation)
Planet Management Skills should stay under Planet Management for the same reason Corporation management is not being integrated into Social. The skills are similar in spirit but should stay in separate categories for fast comprehension.


REVIEW THESE SKILLS FOR POTENTIAL CHANGES:
Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing – won’t fit well anywhere
Energy Pulse Weapons – won’t fit well anywhere

You seem to want to simplify the naming of the categories, so why not look into the new Resource category as being renamed Mining or Harvesting. Social could be renamed Missions. You then have categories called Trade, Mining, Missions, Production, Corporation Management, etc. To a new player looking to get into “mining” or “missions” or “trade”, they know instantly where to look.

I had my girlfriend who recently began playing EVE with me review this thread's contents and assist in my above decisions.

Nooooooo. I love most of the other changes and can see why you are doing it, but this????? It's bloody awful.

Please keep Spaceship Command.

Oh and multiple targeting sounds bad as well.

Very good step and long needed. but in order to make things simpler and more organized then skills should be sorted by function not only what direction they serve. and while you're at it, you might as well sort it real good once and for all!

for example, Science skills should be split into:

1- Laboratory operations: this should have the lab operation related skills
2- Industrial Science: this should have the skills related to invention and t2 manufacturing, because these are completely different and almost unrelated to any lab operations! why should they be in the same category then?

Other skill groups are already grouped by function properly, please don't change those, you'd make the opposite of what you want to achieve here!

"Subsystems" is excellent as it is, i would move it OUT of ship modification group, it's just a hassle to always have this extra tab.

"Planet Management" is perfect as it is, please don't change!


However, some suggested groups need better names. for example:

"Scanning" should be renamed to "Exploration" , because hacking and analyzing are not scanning skills.

"Electronics systems" should be "Electronic Warfare", that's the only logical name for it.



Many other skill names need to be changed as well, such as:

Laboratory operation: should be renamed to "Laboratory Multitasking" or something like that to reflects it's actual function.

Ore industrial: this is for a salvage ship, the word "industrial" makes it confusing. rename it to salvage platforms or something.

Amarr/g/c/m Industrial: these are cargo ship, they don't do any industry, so they should be renamed to "transport ships".

Transport ships: in light of the above suggestion, these should be the "Advanced transport ships"

Advanced weapon upgrades: a lot of debate about this one, rename it to "Weapon Powergrid Management" and then put it under engineering.

Weapon upgrades: > Weapon CPU Management

Hull upgrades: > Armor something

Astrogeology > Advanced Mining operations

The list goes on, but it's really not hard to sort out what skills have confusing names and how to name them better. the main problem could be from the trolls that oppose everything that moves and everything that stays still.

Spaceship Command!

Spaceship piloting makes it sound like I am personally the one steering. Am I not the one in command, telling my minions of the ship what to do and where to go? The minions being the ones in red shirt that always die with the ship as I activate my clone of course.

1: my pleasure ;-)

2: I'm ok with that. Then let us call it enhancements, but I think we both know that someone will figure out a better name for it

I spent 6 hours reworking the entire skill system and now its 21 000 characters over the 6 000 character maximum that I just noticed right now