These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey 1.1] Skill group name changes

First post First post First post
Author
Garth Pollard
Automelian Syndicate
#301 - 2013-07-05 14:30:10 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

[list]
Starship Piloting instead of Starship Command:
  • For this particular point we wanted to distinguish the skill and the group so they do not overlap - it also ties on other plans we have on the future. However, we hear you, agreed it sounds less appealing than the one we have currently - we'll discuss this point internally again.



  • Starship Administration or even Starship Operation, while not as dominating as "Starship Command", might work.
    IIshira
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #302 - 2013-07-05 14:35:03 UTC

    Overall this is a horrible idea.

    Nanite Control renamed Neurotoxin Control... Okay got it maybe that one might not make sense but some of these seem to be renaming stuff because of people not wanting to spend time to lean the game.


    How hard is it to figure out everything under Electronics is either for CPU or other electronic application. This change seems to cater to the "I want it spoon fed to me" crowd. Eve is about spending time learning about the game while your pilot slowly learns skills as well.

    The new skill names don't even sound good to me. Spaceship Command to Spaceship Piloting. Missile Launcher Operation to Missiles And my favorite "I'm too lazy to look up what the skill does" Targeting to Multiple Targeting


    CCP please rethink this!
    Ronny Hugo
    Hedion University
    Amarr Empire
    #303 - 2013-07-05 14:55:52 UTC
    Haven't read through it but off the top of my head I can mention that electronic warfare drone interfacing should be split into two skills, one for increasing control range that does not require electronic warfare skill but instead drones level 5. And another skill for controlling electronic warfare drones, that require drones level 5 and electronic warfare level 4.

    And many skills, fex target painting, is rather backwards. Target painting skill should improve target painter effectiveness, and another skill should decrease its cap use ("Efficient target painting" lets say, and variations on that name for the rest of the equipment). The target painting skill would then be in electronics and efficient target painting would be in engineering along with the rest of the efficient cap use skills. Similar skills should be for afterburners, microwarpdrives, microjumpdrives respectivlely. Spin-up time improves in MJD skill, cap use in its engineering skill, speed increases in AB skill, cap use in its engineering skill, microwarpdrive can have a signature radius decrease while MWD is active as a skill that requires L5 MWD skill, and the MWD skill increases speed, its engineering skill decreases cap use, or perhaps just it just reduces cap size penalty, or both, or two skills, one for each. Each skill should be more singular in purpose and effect, but without being just stacked mile high in sequential skill requirements. Because the whole point of Eve is that we can't train Everything, and have to specialize in what we train. But we can't specialize enough because skills have too many effects per skill (the more effects they have the longer it takes to train them, and that limits specialization. Its like if every biologist had to take three engineering PhD's before becoming a biologist because the curriculum happens to have 3 times more engineering than biology).

    Just my five kroners on the subject.
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #304 - 2013-07-05 15:07:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
    Ronny Hugo wrote:
    Haven't read through it but off the top of my head I can mention that electronic warfare drone interfacing should be split into two skills, one for increasing control range that does not require electronic warfare skill but instead drones level 5. And another skill for controlling electronic warfare drones, that require drones level 5 and electronic warfare level 4.

    And many skills, fex target painting, is rather backwards. Target painting skill should improve target painter effectiveness, and another skill should decrease its cap use ("Efficient target painting" lets say, and variations on that name for the rest of the equipment). The target painting skill would then be in electronics and efficient target painting would be in engineering along with the rest of the efficient cap use skills. Similar skills should be for afterburners, microwarpdrives, microjumpdrives respectivlely. Spin-up time improves in MJD skill, cap use in its engineering skill, speed increases in AB skill, cap use in its engineering skill, microwarpdrive can have a signature radius decrease while MWD is active as a skill that requires L5 MWD skill, and the MWD skill increases speed, its engineering skill decreases cap use, or perhaps just it just reduces cap size penalty, or both, or two skills, one for each. Each skill should be more singular in purpose and effect, but without being just stacked mile high in sequential skill requirements. Because the whole point of Eve is that we can't train Everything, and have to specialize in what we train. But we can't specialize enough because skills have too many effects per skill (the more effects they have the longer it takes to train them, and that limits specialization. Its like if every biologist had to take three engineering PhD's before becoming a biologist because the curriculum happens to have 3 times more engineering than biology).

    Just my five kroners on the subject.


    CCP Ytterbium must be thinking he has opened a can of worms about now :)
    when all he was asking was about renaming and grouping ... but it shows how much work is needed in improving skills and sorting them out so they make sense and are greater encompassing and better balanced.

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

    Syri Taneka
    NOVA-CAINE
    #305 - 2013-07-05 15:10:28 UTC
    Bienator II wrote:
    you forgot "Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing". It has nothing to do with ewar or even with the other interfacing skills, it adds drone control range.


    EWAR Drone Interfacing IS a pre-req for EWAR drones (which happens to add control range as a side effect).
    Victor Deveron
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #306 - 2013-07-05 15:14:02 UTC
    Hmmm...yes this is a new alt...But I remember my newbie 3 years ago.....I received lots of assistance from older veteran players back then to fit my ships, learn what skill is for what.

    All I can say now is seriously?? A noob player should be taught in game first and foremost by those he/she meets in game....and for better understanding as they are being taught given home work so to speak by reading the attributes and descriptions of skills and what not.

    I agree only with the name changing that it might make sense a little bit for some of it....but what i dont agree with is the fact this opens the door a little wider for dumbing down EVE. I play EVE because you need some kind of wit, intelligence to play let alone figure things out....making everything player noob friendly is just wrong.

    If i wanted to play such a game I would go play WoW and spend my money at Blizzard....forcing noobs to read and learn their skills and what works or doesnt work is a very good part of what makes eve interesting....plus it help older players to weed and cull out the undesirables *ie:to stupid/young/immature* from being part of a group.

    Really let the players control the training of their newbs its better that way and has worked that way for a long time.
    maybe the guy proposing this...should weed himself out of the game.
    Andrew Alancourt
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #307 - 2013-07-05 15:38:39 UTC
    I don't really like the idea of renaming the core skills like Navigation, Mechanics, Engineering, Electronics etc. to refer to their specific effects. The reason is that those skills play a role much larger than just directly increasing abilities. They are the gateway to skills in their groups -- you generally have to train them first to start unlocking other skills. The way they are named now, it's obvious that they're the "core" skills (they are even called such by players) and you should start there in order to be able to branch out. If they're labeled more specifically then it doesn't make sense that you have to train then first.

    The opposite problem is true for EWAR Drone Interfacing; yes, that is a terrible name for what it does and it should be changed. But once the name is changed there will make even less sense for it to have a prerequisite of EWAR IV. I think if the name is changed, the prerequisite should be changed too.
    Lilliana Stelles
    #308 - 2013-07-05 15:58:49 UTC
    This thread is so casual.

    Don't like technoblabber? Don't play eve.
    It's part of the game flavor.

    I don't really approve of any of these changes.

    Not a forum alt. 

    Ezek Price
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #309 - 2013-07-05 16:03:36 UTC
    Electronics/Engineering was fine. As was Spaceship Command.

    Nothing is broken here.

    War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left.

    My blog, Civire Commander: http://civre.blogspot.co.uk/

    Freelancer117
    So you want to be a Hero
    #310 - 2013-07-05 16:11:45 UTC
    Good idea to go over this stuff CCP.
    The learning curve for new players is high enough already Cool

    Eve online is :

    A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

    D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

    http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

    http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

    ISD Cura Ursus
    ISD Community Communications Liaisons
    ISD Alliance
    #311 - 2013-07-05 16:29:50 UTC
    Off topic post removed. Please do not post non-eve related videos.

    ISD Cura Ursus

    Lieutenant Commander

    Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

    Interstellar Services Department

    Albert Spear
    Non scholae sed vitae
    #312 - 2013-07-05 16:53:52 UTC
    As to subsystems and T3 ships -

    It may or may not make sense to group all of the skills in one group - for lack of a better name right now "Advanced Technology" and include the ship command skills with the subsystem skills, since they are intertwined and they only impact each other.
    Commander Ted
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #313 - 2013-07-05 16:56:41 UTC
    ISD Cura Ursus wrote:
    Off topic post removed. Please do not post non-eve related videos.

    I guess CCP is working with the reptilians.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

    Bienator II
    madmen of the skies
    #314 - 2013-07-05 17:07:59 UTC
    Syri Taneka wrote:
    Bienator II wrote:
    you forgot "Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing". It has nothing to do with ewar or even with the other interfacing skills, it adds drone control range.


    EWAR Drone Interfacing IS a pre-req for EWAR drones (which happens to add control range as a side effect).


    which makes it even worse

    how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

    MrZany
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #315 - 2013-07-05 17:12:18 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium,

    with respect to skill names particularly the lower ranked "core" skills I think you should choose names that are both descriptive and exciting. This may keep newer players interested and immersed in the game.

    there is nothing exciting about training "Navigation" skill but what about "engine overcharge" or "engine tuning"

    "Electronincs" boring "CPU overclock" a bit more exciting etc. etc.


    So the new guys in the corp are talking about their skills, now when asked what they are doing they might reply "I'm over charging my engines, I want a bit more velocity".

    thanks for reading

    P.s. if you can't keep "spaceship command" would you consider "starship command" or "starship piloting"? "Spaceship piloting" sounds a bit drab.


    Sable Moran
    Moran Light Industries
    #316 - 2013-07-05 17:24:01 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Update based on what we have seen so far.

      Starship Piloting instead of Starship Command:
    • For this particular point we wanted to distinguish the skill and the group so they do not overlap - it also ties on other plans we have on the future. However, we hear you, agreed it sounds less appealing than the one we have currently - we'll discuss this point internally again.

    How about you simply switch them around. 'Starship Command' for the name of the group and 'Starship Piloting' for the individual skill. The skill gives a bonus to a ships agility and that makes me think about piloting.

    Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

    Thorian Crystal
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #317 - 2013-07-05 17:32:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorian Crystal
    You should also unify the way the names are. For example you have groups Armor and Shields. Why shields is plural here?

    Also Electronic System but Missiles. Why missiles is plural?

    "Multiple Targeting"? You actually mean multitargetting?

    CPU management and Power grid management groups will be far away from each other now... They used to both start with an E.

    Why "CPU management”" but "Neurotoxin Control"? Should unify capitalization.

    "Scoial" -> Social

    "Skill Harviring" you guess this one?
    Zaxix
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #318 - 2013-07-05 17:34:59 UTC
    Galen Dnari wrote:
    Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
    Oraac Ensor wrote:
    Systems Online wrote:
    I do not like a skill name starting with an acronym. Pronouncing "SEE PEE YOU" Management. is just awkward.
    CPU is not an acronym. If it were, it would be pronounced "c'pew".

    If CPU isnt acronym for Central Processing Unit then what is?

    He's right. An acronym is, by definition, an abbreviation formed from the initial letters of other words and pronounced as a word. CPU is an abbreviation.

    The technical term is "initialism."

    Bokononist

     

    Thorian Crystal
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #319 - 2013-07-05 17:37:14 UTC
    Still, an abbreviation as part of the name feels odd.
    Zaxix
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #320 - 2013-07-05 17:45:38 UTC
    Phoenus wrote:
    Please for the love of christ Ytterbium, learn how to spell armour properly.

    You don't need to encourage the savages who have decimated the second most widely spoken language in the world.

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/colour#Etymology
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armour#Etymology

    It's funny that a Brit would attempt to defend his native tongue by choosing words that have a French origin for that particular variant of spelling. You're also mispronouncing it for that particular spelling. We took the liberty of correcting the spelling and maintaining the correct pronounciation.

    Your empire had its day. The language is OURS now!

    Bokononist