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[IDEA] Give skill points as a reward for completing PvE missions/Ratting/Bounty's

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Balthazar Lestrane
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Sedition.
#61 - 2013-07-03 13:20:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthazar Lestrane
Quote:


But I want to find a reason to play the game, I want to fly around in a big shiny battleship and kill stuff, I want to be a part of huge fleet battles with my alliance, but I can't, cause my character is less than 3 months old and I won't be able to be any good at that stuff for at least another year at best.

As to your last point it is the developers job to inspire me to play the game, that's their only job.


You're lack of insight into this game and it's meta is depressing. If you cannot find a reason to enjoy EVE then seriously, stop playing. CCP has created an excellent product with excellent tools that in of themselves are inspiring to utilize. It is [never] their job to inspire anyone but themselves so that they keep creating tools that inspire us when we use them. If you can't enjoy EVE with simple frigates and destroyers than you have no business flying anything else. Please mail me when (I doubt you'll be playing still) you get a shiny battleship because I will thoroughly enjoy taking it away from you in a ship that took 3 weeks to skill into. Twisted
Chilli-Con Carnage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2013-07-03 13:22:17 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
Anna Djan wrote:
I think this is the worst idea I've seen in this section....

I smell a troll.


How am I trolling? All I have done is come up with a good idea to get new players into the game and attempted to defend my position.

i like how you try to help new players by forcing both new and old players into running missions (arguably the most boring part of the game)...


NOT JUST MISSIONS!!!

ffs how many times do I have to say it?

Missions/Ratting/Bounty's was the original title and that can be expanded to all activity's. I don't want people to do anything they don't want to do, I have never once told someone how to play or what to do in EVE, I have merely suggested an added benefit of the grinding aspects of EVE and allow players to get into the fun parts faster.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#63 - 2013-07-03 13:23:46 UTC
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:


1) Never once have I said mission grinding is a good idea, I have said PvE in this sucks and is boring but that my idea gives people a reason to do it.
2) Players who can devote more time to a game should be rewarded more than someone who plays less, that should be a simple suggestion.
3) Theme Park MMO's are currently the most popular type of MMO on the market and are played an enjoyed by millions upon millions of people around the world. Is it only the immature that play Theme Park games?
4) Err I don't know where your getting this stuff from and I have never once told people how they should play this game. I suggested gaining SP's for EVERYTHING you can do in this game, not just mission running.

Want me to continue?

1. Except the part where you want everyone to grind for SP. This would be the case if this was introduced.
2. Players who devote more time already get rewarded more.
3. Then go and play one. This isn't a themepark MMO, time to deal with that fact.
4. You are telling people how to play, by wanting this introduced. It actually gives incentives not to play, merely to engage in meaningless repetition and time-sinking.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#64 - 2013-07-03 13:25:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
i like how you try to help new players by forcing both new and old players into running missions (arguably the most boring part of the game)...


NOT JUST MISSIONS!!!

ffs how many times do I have to say it?

Missions/Ratting/Bounty's was the original title and that can be expanded to all activity's. I don't want people to do anything they don't want to do, I have never once told someone how to play or what to do in EVE, I have merely suggested an added benefit of the grinding aspects of EVE and allow players to get into the fun parts faster.

replace missions with "whatever gives you the most SP per hour and/or can be botted/exploited"

I should buy an Ishtar.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#65 - 2013-07-03 13:25:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Zor'katar
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
1) Never once have I said mission grinding is a good idea, I have said PvE in this sucks and is boring but that my idea gives people a reason to do it.

Requiring players to do a boring task in order to keep their character progression up is pretty much the definition of grinding. Also, why do people need more encouragement to do missions/PvE? There are already a ton of people doing them.
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
2) Players who can devote more time to a game should be rewarded more than someone who plays less, that should be a simple suggestion.

Says you. Casual players would disagree.
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
3) Theme Park MMO's are currently the most popular type of MMO on the market and are played an enjoyed by millions upon millions of people around the world. Is it only the immature that play Theme Park games?

Irrelevant. A large portion of Eve's success with its current player base is exactly because it's not a themepark MMO.
Chilli-Con Carnage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2013-07-03 13:27:05 UTC
Balthazar Lestrane wrote:
Quote:


But I want to find a reason to play the game, I want to fly around in a big shiny battleship and kill stuff, I want to be a part of huge fleet battles with my alliance, but I can't, cause my character is less than 3 months old and I won't be able to be any good at that stuff for at least another year at best.

As to your last point it is the developers job to inspire me to play the game, that's their only job.


You're lack of insight into this game and it's meta is depressing. If you cannot find a reason to enjoy EVE then seriously, stop playing. CCP has created an excellent product with excellent tools that in of themselves are inspiring to utilize. It is [never] their job to inspire anyone but themselves so that they keep creating tools that inspire us when we use them. If you can't enjoy EVE with simple frigates and destroyers than you have no business flying anything else. Please mail me when (I doubt you'll be playing still) you get a shiny battleship because I will thoroughly enjoy taking it away from you in a ship that took 3 weeks to skill into. Twisted


I do enjoy EVE, I think the game is amazing and I wouldn't be here if I didn't think that, but seriously where is the harm in making the progression system faster? Even if it only for the first few months?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-07-03 13:29:47 UTC
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
[I do enjoy EVE, I think the game is amazing and I wouldn't be here if I didn't think that, but seriously where is the harm in making the progression system faster? Even if it only for the first few months?


https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Cerebral_Accelerator

I should buy an Ishtar.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#68 - 2013-07-03 13:31:17 UTC
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
I do enjoy EVE, I think the game is amazing and I wouldn't be here if I didn't think that, but seriously where is the harm in making the progression system faster? Even if it only for the first few months?

The harm is giving new players the skill to fly things they can't handle and do things they can't afford. If you gave every noob 10 million SP, the next thread-of-the-month would be something along the lines of "Why are battleships so expensive? Us week-old characters can't keep spending that kind of ISK on something we have to replace every fifth mission! Fix this CCP!"
Mag's
Azn Empire
#69 - 2013-07-03 13:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:


I do enjoy EVE, I think the game is amazing and I wouldn't be here if I didn't think that, but seriously where is the harm in making the progression system faster? Even if it only for the first few months?
Because it becomes another need to system, much like the old learning skills were. It's simply not needed and so far I've not seen one good reason for it's introduction.

Old threads.

Linkage.

Linkage.

Linkage.

Linkage.

Linkage.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Balthazar Lestrane
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Sedition.
#70 - 2013-07-03 13:33:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthazar Lestrane
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
Balthazar Lestrane wrote:
Quote:


But I want to find a reason to play the game, I want to fly around in a big shiny battleship and kill stuff, I want to be a part of huge fleet battles with my alliance, but I can't, cause my character is less than 3 months old and I won't be able to be any good at that stuff for at least another year at best.

As to your last point it is the developers job to inspire me to play the game, that's their only job.


You're lack of insight into this game and it's meta is depressing. If you cannot find a reason to enjoy EVE then seriously, stop playing. CCP has created an excellent product with excellent tools that in of themselves are inspiring to utilize. It is [never] their job to inspire anyone but themselves so that they keep creating tools that inspire us when we use them. If you can't enjoy EVE with simple frigates and destroyers than you have no business flying anything else. Please mail me when (I doubt you'll be playing still) you get a shiny battleship because I will thoroughly enjoy taking it away from you in a ship that took 3 weeks to skill into. Twisted


I do enjoy EVE, I think the game is amazing and I wouldn't be here if I didn't think that, but seriously where is the harm in making the progression system faster? Even if it only for the first few months?


"But I want to find a reason to play the game." Doesn't sound like you're having fun to me. Undocking and fleeting up is enough for me.

As I said, you have an extraordinary lack of insight into EVE and how it's developers work. CCP has said thousands of times that they make and will continue to make enormous efforts to not fall into the same traps that other MMOs do which leads to stagnation and eventual MMO death. The biggest trap is the one you're suggesting, a power creep. If CCP starts allowing a Grind for SP mechanic to form, it will turn into WoW and nothing but complete faggotry.

Let's just give everyone Polaris Frigates with DDs, remove security status from systems and make everything in the environment completely destructible and non-replaceable. Your idea would accomplish the same thing, the death of EVE.
Chilli-Con Carnage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2013-07-03 13:39:23 UTC
The weird thing is that whether you run missions or mine or trade or just rat to earn some ISK, you are all grinding. I just don't see why you have a problem with being given an extra benefit to the grinding. If (as has already been said) SP's do not equal skill in this game (which I have agreed with), where is the downside of grinding to gain extra SP's? As far as I can tell the only problem is that the elitist few who already have a metric sh*t-ton of SP's do not want other people to be able to catch up with them.

New players need a way to get into this game faster and I'm talking a few months not a few years. Whether you want to believe it or not it takes too long to get a ship to any decent, playable standard in EVE.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#72 - 2013-07-03 13:41:25 UTC
The last time someone suggested this it got a resounding NO in response.

This time it has got a resounding NO in response.

As for me, that would be a NO.

CCP have made a fair skill progression system that never allows a player to max out and allows all players to progress equally irrespective of their playing styles. There is always something to learn. Your idea would force people to grind missions. A lot of players don't do missions (or any of the content you suggest SP should be awarded for) at all which would put them at a distinct disadvantage to other players.

I'm not suggesting that this should be done but consider, hyperthetically, if rather than getting sp for doing missions (ratting, mining etc) you got sp just for killing players. How would that be for you as a mission runner? Would you find that acceptable and fair? Better still, would you like to be forced into doing pvp just so you could "keep up" with the other players' sp gains?
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#73 - 2013-07-03 13:47:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Zor'katar
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
The weird thing is that whether you run missions or mine or trade or just rat to earn some ISK, you are all grinding.

Not if they enjoy running missions, mining, trading, or ratting.

Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
I just don't see why you have a problem with being given an extra benefit to the grinding. If (as has already been said) SP's do not equal skill in this game (which I have agreed with), where is the downside of grinding to gain extra SP's?

People are going to feel like they have to be grinding SP to keep up, which will force them into doing something they don't really want to be doing, which would lower their enjoyment of the game. Sure, they could just not do the grinding, but then they would feel like they're falling behind, which will also reduce their enjoyment of the game. It's pretty much a no-win situation... you have to run the treadmill just to keep up. That's not fun.

Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
As far as I can tell the only problem is that the elitist few who already have a metric sh*t-ton of SP's do not want other people to be able to catch up with them.

Meh. Tired old argument that doesn't really hold water when you're being given lots of legitimate reasons why this is actually bad for the game (not just for vets).

Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
New players need a way to get into this game faster and I'm talking a few months not a few years. Whether you want to believe it or not it takes too long to get a ship to any decent, playable standard in EVE.

You're choosing the wrong standards.
Chilli-Con Carnage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-07-03 13:48:17 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
The last time someone suggested this it got a resounding NO in response.

This time it has got a resounding NO in response.

As for me, that would be a NO.

CCP have made a fair skill progression system that never allows a player to max out and allows all players to progress equally irrespective of their playing styles. There is always something to learn. Your idea would force people to grind missions. A lot of players don't do missions (or any of the content you suggest SP should be awarded for) at all which would put them at a distinct disadvantage to other players.

I'm not suggesting that this should be done but consider, hyperthetically, if rather than getting sp for doing missions (ratting, mining etc) you got sp just for killing players. How would that be for you as a mission runner? Would you find that acceptable and fair? Better still, would you like to be forced into doing pvp just so you could "keep up" with the other players' sp gains?


But once again I have to say this, I'm not just talking about Missions. If it was a SP gain for ALL activity's up to and including PvP then where's the harm? And as I have added, if you only got the bonus until your character got to a certain amount of SP's (10-15 million for example), then that shouldn't effect anyone but help out a new player.
Balthazar Lestrane
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Sedition.
#75 - 2013-07-03 13:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthazar Lestrane
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
The weird thing is that whether you run missions or mine or trade or just rat to earn some ISK, you are all grinding. I just don't see why you have a problem with being given an extra benefit to the grinding. If (as has already been said) SP's do not equal skill in this game (which I have agreed with), where is the downside of grinding to gain extra SP's? As far as I can tell the only problem is that the elitist few who already have a metric sh*t-ton of SP's do not want other people to be able to catch up with them.

New players need a way to get into this game faster and I'm talking a few months not a few years. Whether you want to believe it or not it takes too long to get a ship to any decent, playable standard in EVE.


My last comment before I wash my hands of this insanity is.. think about this.

We just saw EVE reach it's 10th birthday. And over that ten year span, from what I understand, EVE has never seen a drop in player base. It has continuously grown and grown over the years. To the point that China even now has their own private server, Serenity. (Something to do with chinese laws or population, I don't know or care to be frank.)

Forgiving the Incarna incident, CCP has not only made a game that is capable of spanning an entire decade (something WoW hasn't claimed yet) they have shown they are capable of creating something with longevity and consequence. I have never played a game that has made my heart race like EVE does and I would suck **** to keep it that way.

Why attempt to fix something that is not broken?

A grinding mechanic would wreck the PvP landscape forever. There would be none because everyone would constantly be grinding to keep up with one another. Stagnation and death and I won't have any of it.
Chilli-Con Carnage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2013-07-03 13:53:13 UTC
Zor'katar wrote:
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
The weird thing is that whether you run missions or mine or trade or just rat to earn some ISK, you are all grinding.

Not if they enjoy running missions, mining, trading, or ratting.

Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
I just don't see why you have a problem with being given an extra benefit to the grinding. If (as has already been said) SP's do not equal skill in this game (which I have agreed with), where is the downside of grinding to gain extra SP's?

People are going to feel like they have to be grinding SP to keep up, which will force them into doing something they don't really want to be doing, which would lower their enjoyment of the game. Sure, they could just not do the grinding, but then they would feel like they're falling behind, which will also reduce their enjoyment of the game. It's pretty much a no-win situation... you have to run the treadmill just to keep up. That's not fun.

Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
As far as I can tell the only problem is that the elitist few who already have a metric sh*t-ton of SP's do not want other people to be able to catch up with them.

Meh. Tired old argument that doesn't really hold water when you're being given lots of legitimate reasons why this is actually bad for the game (not just for vets).

Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
New players need a way to get into this game faster and I'm talking a few months not a few years. Whether you want to believe it or not it takes too long to get a ship to any decent, playable standard in EVE.

You're choosing the wrong standards.


Regardless of whether they enjoy it or not it's still grinding.

But if you got the SP bonus for ALL activity's in the game then they would not have to do the things they didn't want to do to 'keep up', they would only have to do whatever they wanted to do.

I'm not seeing all that many legitimate reasons why this is bad for the game, all I am seeing is reasons for why and old veteran does not want it in the game. And that's only cause they want to feel special above all other players and not give them a chance to catch up.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#77 - 2013-07-03 13:53:29 UTC
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
The last time someone suggested this it got a resounding NO in response.

This time it has got a resounding NO in response.

As for me, that would be a NO.

CCP have made a fair skill progression system that never allows a player to max out and allows all players to progress equally irrespective of their playing styles. There is always something to learn. Your idea would force people to grind missions. A lot of players don't do missions (or any of the content you suggest SP should be awarded for) at all which would put them at a distinct disadvantage to other players.

I'm not suggesting that this should be done but consider, hyperthetically, if rather than getting sp for doing missions (ratting, mining etc) you got sp just for killing players. How would that be for you as a mission runner? Would you find that acceptable and fair? Better still, would you like to be forced into doing pvp just so you could "keep up" with the other players' sp gains?


But once again I have to say this, I'm not just talking about Missions. If it was a SP gain for ALL activity's up to and including PvP then where's the harm? And as I have added, if you only got the bonus until your character got to a certain amount of SP's (10-15 million for example), then that shouldn't effect anyone but help out a new player.


So you're going to penalise those new players who chose to do scouting roles for their corp's pvp fleets? How would you quantify sp gain for them? They're not shooting any red boxes, mining any roids or doing anything else that's quantifiable but yet they are playing the game. Are you saying they shouldn't get this? How about those who play the markets? How would you award sp for market ops without allowing it to be abused?

Whilst your request seems reasonable to you because you want it, as you can hopefully tell from the content and volume of the responses to it, it isn't reasonable to most everyone else. There are already ways for new players to speed up their learning without resorting to the kind of abusable and unfair methods you're proposing.
Balthazar Lestrane
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Sedition.
#78 - 2013-07-03 13:57:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthazar Lestrane
Quote:


I'm not seeing all that many legitimate reasons why this is bad for the game, all I am seeing is reasons for why and old veteran does not want it in the game. And that's only cause they want to feel special above all other players and not give them a chance to catch up.



I thought I could wash my hands of this. ::sighs::

I'm 6 months old and I do not approve of this. I have been flying frigates, destroyers and the occasional cruiser for the last six months and I ******* love it. I will get to bigger ships when I get there. There is no need to ruin the passive training that allows so many to enjoy this game on their time. That is a reason above all others why your idea is ****.

Do you realize the average age of all capsuleers is late 20s to late 30s. These are people with families and careers and commitments outside of New Eden that don't have time to grind missions, or exploration sites or even PvP all goddamn day long so they can keep up with their reds.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#79 - 2013-07-03 13:59:58 UTC
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
Regardless of whether they enjoy it or not it's still grinding.

Well, by the definition you seem to be using, PvP is grinding too? And logging in? By the common definition (or at least the definition I've been using in this thread), grinding is something a player does because they have to, not because they want to. If I want to run missions, then missioning is not grinding.

Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
But if you got the SP bonus for ALL activity's in the game then they would not have to do the things they didn't want to do to 'keep up', they would only have to do whatever they wanted to do.

You cannot give SP for PvP, because that would be horribly horribly exploited. And even if you decided to give a big "screw you" to PvPers and give SP for everything else, there is a significant population who will get to work figuring out which activity provides the most SP per effort, at which point everyone will flock to that activity, bringing us back to the grind. I'm not saying it's entirely rational, but that's the sort of player base Eve has.

Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
I'm not seeing all that many legitimate reasons why this is bad for the game, all I am seeing is reasons for why and old veteran does not want it in the game. And that's only cause they want to feel special above all other players and not give them a chance to catch up.

Well then, you're seeing that because that's what you want to see. I've explained several times why it's also bad for new players.
Chilli-Con Carnage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-07-03 14:00:23 UTC
Balthazar Lestrane wrote:
Chilli-Con Carnage wrote:
The weird thing is that whether you run missions or mine or trade or just rat to earn some ISK, you are all grinding. I just don't see why you have a problem with being given an extra benefit to the grinding. If (as has already been said) SP's do not equal skill in this game (which I have agreed with), where is the downside of grinding to gain extra SP's? As far as I can tell the only problem is that the elitist few who already have a metric sh*t-ton of SP's do not want other people to be able to catch up with them.

New players need a way to get into this game faster and I'm talking a few months not a few years. Whether you want to believe it or not it takes too long to get a ship to any decent, playable standard in EVE.


My last comment before I wash my hands of this insanity is.. think about this.

We just saw EVE reach it's 10th birthday. And over that ten year span, from what I understand, EVE has never seen a drop in player base. It has continuously grown and grown over the years. To the point that China even now has their own private server, Serenity. (Something to do with chinese laws or population, I don't know or care to be frank.)

Forgiving the Incarna incident, CCP has not only made a game that is capable of spanning an entire decade (something WoW hasn't claimed yet) they have shown they are capable of creating something with longevity and consequence. I have never played a game that has made my heart race like EVE does and I would suck **** to keep it that way.

Why attempt to fix something that is not broken?

A grinding mechanic would wreck the PvP landscape forever. There would be none because everyone would constantly be grinding to keep up with one another. Stagnation and death and I won't have any of it.


Thank you, you are the only person who has given me a good reason not to implement this idea. All I will say is this, Wow hasn't got to 10 years yet, but it has had more than 20 times the amount of players. Wanna know why? Cause it made the new user experience easy to understand and play. I don't like WoW but you can't argue that Blizzard has made the most popular MMO in history. Also think about this, Space sim games died over a decade ago, yet still there remains an enormous fan-base for them. Well several space sim games are currently in production that could blow the market open and if EVE is gonna survive that, then it's needs to change the experience for new users. The same old tired formula will not work forever.