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Crime & Punishment

 
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Highsec, Casual or Hardcore?

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2011-10-24 17:49:53 UTC
Kronos Hopeslayer wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Kronos Hopeslayer wrote:
Step 1 Get a Hulk
Step 2 Get an alt (2nd account/trial account) a t1 frig
Step 3 Have alt attack your hulk, thus summoning Concord to your belt
Step 4 ?
Step 5 profit


its hysterically funny that not only is a mm member reduced to contemplating how to mine in highsec, but his contemplations are completely wrong



I've never mined in my life, but this was pointed out to me to work against gankers.


good, go try it in ard ~8pm EST if you don't mind, that's when I plan on ganking some more

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2011-10-24 17:52:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Weaselior wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:

Not to mention that both of you suggesting something which is strictly against rules. Aka bannable offense.


whoa good thing you're here to suggest petitioning us, something that not one of the 1500+ ships we've ganked have tried


Are you using exploits to kill those mackinaws ? If so it should be looked at. Either way it doesnt really matter.

Anyone can gank an mackinaw in brutix if not than tempest with 1400mm in the end preventing it will not work, well unless you got bunch of friend who will get their falcons suicided to jamm you and other friends in combat ships which will suicide gank you. Not gonna happen budget of those "poor" miners are too thin in comparison to Goons budget.


Hereby i apology for any post in this thread, i am drunk a bit and i am loser so i waste my time on forums instead of getting laid Sad
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2011-10-24 17:55:49 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:

Not to mention that both of you suggesting something which is strictly against rules. Aka bannable offense.


whoa good thing you're here to suggest petitioning us, something that not one of the 1500+ ships we've ganked have tried


Are you using exploits to kill those mackinaws ? If so it should be looked at. Either way it doesnt really matter.

Anyone can gank an mackinaw in brutix if not than tempest with 1400mm in the end preventing it will not work, well unless you got bunch of friend who will get their falcons suicided to jamm you and other friends in combat ships which will suicide gank you. Not gonna happen budget of those "poor" miners are too thin in comparison to Goons budget.


Hereby i apology for any post in this thread, i am drunk a bit and i am loser so i waste my time on forums instead of getting laid Sad
Uhh no the GSF are not using exploits to kill the mackinaws. They are straight up ganking the mackinaws and then getting killed by concord as a result of their aggression. Not all ganking are successful because miners can tank up and the person ganking can fail to suceed.

If you or anyone else got proof of us using exploits, you would see GSF members getting banned left and right. But "cleaning up" concord is not an exploit because that's how their mechanism works. So working as intended.
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2011-10-24 17:55:50 UTC  |  Edited by: I Accidentally YourShip
Karadion wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Kronos Hopeslayer wrote:
Step 1 Get a Hulk
Step 2 Get an alt (2nd account/trial account) a t1 frig
Step 3 Have alt attack your hulk, thus summoning Concord to your belt
Step 4 ?
Step 5 profit


You realized that is only a temporary solution? There is ways of pulling concord off that belt.


Not to mention that both of you suggesting something which is strictly against rules. Aka bannable offense.

Prove it.



Actually, I had a similar run in with someone who did this, I reported the event as I thought manipulating CONCORD like that was against the rules. I was told by the GM it was not, and it was a perfectly legitimate tactic in itself. Recycling alts over and over to do this however is not. You must keep that same alt and deal with the destroyed sec status, then it is perfectly legit.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2011-10-24 17:56:48 UTC
I Accidentally YourShip wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Kronos Hopeslayer wrote:
Step 1 Get a Hulk
Step 2 Get an alt (2nd account/trial account) a t1 frig
Step 3 Have alt attack your hulk, thus summoning Concord to your belt
Step 4 ?
Step 5 profit


You realized that is only a temporary solution? There is ways of pulling concord off that belt.


Not to mention that both of you suggesting something which is strictly against rules. Aka bannable offense.

Prove it.



Actually, I had a similar run in with someone who did this, I reported the event as I thought manipulating CONCORD like that was against the rules. I was told it was not, and it was a perfectly legitimate tactic in itself. Recycling alts over and over to do this however is not. You must keep that same alt and deal with the destroyed sec status, then it is perfectly legit.
Yes but no one is doing that in this case. They're fine dealing with their -10 security status. Some other people are not and they just buy straight up new accounts by plexing it up.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2011-10-24 18:00:05 UTC
the only people who actually recycle alts are the miners: a ganker doesn't want to biomass their ganking alt

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Tanya Fox
Doomheim
#47 - 2011-10-24 18:00:32 UTC
Battle On wrote:
Since a few day, Goonswarm Federation has been really active in Hentogaira. they are podding every ice miner there is and they now they reached their ultimate goal: http://goonfleet.net/miners/. it seems to me they are now officially a maffia gank that rips people off for money.

250mill for 1 character just to mine ice. this is just perfect. many miners like myself are just casual gamers that afk-mine when doing some work. we dont make 250mill just to be able to mine. if we wanna make 250mill we should chance to hardcore mode and mine ALOT before reaching the 250mill.

also, its just too easy to gank a miner. i just saw a mackinaw get shot by a Brutix. this mean that a 15-30mill worth ship just ganked a 150mill worth ship, thats just outrages. i think ccp should do something about this since its just crazy that you can so easily pop a miner. concord pops up just too late to stop the ganker from killing the miner, which just sucks.

the reaction time of concord is about 3-5 seconds, more then enough time to kill a miner in a brutix. yes, the ganker gets shot, but for a nullsec thug is 15-30mill nothing. they do 1 anomoly and get raped. also their concord standing is -5.0 so they can enter highsec. there are people that killed 10+ miners in highsec and still continue raping them since they can enter highsec at all time. why? why dont they get killed when trying to go to highsec?

i think this whole "raping the miners" thing is getting all out of control, highsec used to be a safe heaven for casual gamers where we could just do whatever we like without worrying about nullsec/lowsec thugs that ruin people's eve experience. why cant these people go back to nullsec to change things there instead of raping us? dont they have better things to do then kill the eve economy?

so whats your opinion about this? what advice do you have for all those miners out there?




Should not worry to much, they'll probably over do it and some half-assed mechanic will be added to the game to counter it.
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2011-10-24 18:01:07 UTC
Karadion wrote:

Yes but no one is doing that in this case. They're fine dealing with their -10 security status. Some other people are not and they just buy straight up new accounts by plexing it up.



I know they are, I was just refuting the point that someone said it was against the rules and a bannable offense. It is not.
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2011-10-24 18:02:54 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
the only people who actually recycle alts are the miners: a ganker doesn't want to biomass their ganking alt



Even many miners don't, it's not particularly hard to get the throwaway alt to you and shoot even with -10 sec as long as you aren't an inept person.
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2011-10-24 18:03:53 UTC
These are the inevitable outcomes:

* CCP will step in and change the way Concord works to better respond to ganking (permanent ice belt patrols with improved AI)
* CCP will intervene in the market and render the ganking largely ineffective
* CCP will change the way ice is distributed, spreading it out much further and making it impossible to fully camp (likely)
* CCP will change POS fuel requirements as part of their announced POS logistics change (also likely)
* CCP will realize the ice mining concept is terribly flawed and redesign it into soemthing not broken (not as likely)
* CCP will drastically increase tank of industrials (simplest, most boring solution)
* Goons will grow bored of the effort or need to reassign resources, will announce "success" and end the blockade

One of those things iwll happen in the coming months. Personally, I'd like ice to be removed and replaced by something that isn't so tedious as to REQUIRE bots (or stupid people) to be the only ones mining it.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#51 - 2011-10-24 18:05:11 UTC
Battle On wrote:
Since a few day, Goonswarm Federation has been really active in Hentogaira. they are podding every ice miner there is and they now they reached their ultimate goal: http://goonfleet.net/miners/. it seems to me they are now officially a maffia gank that rips people off for money.

250mill for 1 character just to mine ice. this is just perfect. many miners like myself are just casual gamers that afk-mine when doing some work. we dont make 250mill just to be able to mine. if we wanna make 250mill we should chance to hardcore mode and mine ALOT before reaching the 250mill.

also, its just too easy to gank a miner. i just saw a mackinaw get shot by a Brutix. this mean that a 15-30mill worth ship just ganked a 150mill worth ship, thats just outrages. i think ccp should do something about this since its just crazy that you can so easily pop a miner. concord pops up just too late to stop the ganker from killing the miner, which just sucks.

the reaction time of concord is about 3-5 seconds, more then enough time to kill a miner in a brutix. yes, the ganker gets shot, but for a nullsec thug is 15-30mill nothing. they do 1 anomoly and get raped. also their concord standing is -5.0 so they can enter highsec. there are people that killed 10+ miners in highsec and still continue raping them since they can enter highsec at all time. why? why dont they get killed when trying to go to highsec?

i think this whole "raping the miners" thing is getting all out of control, highsec used to be a safe heaven for casual gamers where we could just do whatever we like without worrying about nullsec/lowsec thugs that ruin people's eve experience. why cant these people go back to nullsec to change things there instead of raping us? dont they have better things to do then kill the eve economy?

so whats your opinion about this? what advice do you have for all those miners out there?


Taaaah-ROLL!

Not too bad, 3 pages already, but then again, calling out the Goonswarm forum fleet always produces results.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Gerard Gendri
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2011-10-24 18:05:28 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Karadion wrote:
We've been blowing up miners left and right for almost 4 weeks now. We intend to keep our bounty program up indefinitely.


Doesn't matter, it will lose publicity, interest, momentum and die. Big smile


Not at the rate you guys are posting.

Your posts are 110 octane fuel to keep my ganking going.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2011-10-24 18:06:18 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
These are the inevitable outcomes:

* CCP will step in and change the way Concord works to better respond to ganking (permanent ice belt patrols with improved AI)
* CCP will intervene in the market and render the ganking largely ineffective
* CCP will change the way ice is distributed, spreading it out much further and making it impossible to fully camp (likely)
* CCP will change POS fuel requirements as part of their announced POS logistics change (also likely)
* CCP will realize the ice mining concept is terribly flawed and redesign it into soemthing not broken (not as likely)
* CCP will drastically increase tank of industrials (simplest, most boring solution)
* Goons will grow bored of the effort or need to reassign resources, will announce "success" and end the blockade

One of those things iwll happen in the coming months. Personally, I'd like ice to be removed and replaced by something that isn't so tedious as to REQUIRE bots (or stupid people) to be the only ones mining it.

This is the inevitable outcome:
* CCP will do nothing.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#54 - 2011-10-24 18:07:21 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Where's your statistics to prove this point? Right now. regular full-time ice miners are just plain scared to mine in Gallente ice fields because of the goons.


Hulkaggedon and the lack of long term impact. It was a bit of drama, something to still talk about but has changed nothing.


the fundamental flaw of hulkageddon, and its predecessor the great goonfleet jihad, is precisely that it spread itself too thin to achieve lasting change

one cannot camp every asteroid belt in highsec

one can, however, camp every gallente ice field



There are other ice fields and as soon as this loses momentum people will go back to the Gallente ones. Your change is temporary.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2011-10-24 18:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Karadion
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Where's your statistics to prove this point? Right now. regular full-time ice miners are just plain scared to mine in Gallente ice fields because of the goons.


Hulkaggedon and the lack of long term impact. It was a bit of drama, something to still talk about but has changed nothing.


the fundamental flaw of hulkageddon, and its predecessor the great goonfleet jihad, is precisely that it spread itself too thin to achieve lasting change

one cannot camp every asteroid belt in highsec

one can, however, camp every gallente ice field



There are other ice fields and as soon as this loses momentum people will go back to the Gallente ones. Your change is temporary.
You really are obtuse. There are very limited locations that makes this operation very feasible in the long run. Weaselior was correct that Hulkageddon was spread too thin. Especially the empire pubbie tears is what keeps us going.

Here are the locations of blue ice fields that makes it easy for us to do this operation.
Ala 0.5 Spaen Sinq Liason 2x
Alillere 0.8 Nexus Sinq laison
Ardallabier 0.7 Ysiette Everyshore
Aydoteaux 0.7 Elalan Everyshore
Eletta 0.9 Obray Verge Vendor
Gicodel 0.9 Odilis Everyshore
Ignebaener 0.5 Peccanouette Essence
Niballe 0.6 Solitude
Pettinck 0.8 Sinq Laison
Sortet 0.8 Ancbeu Verge Vendor
Stegette 0.5 Stion Sinq Liason
Tolle 0.7 Elalan Everyshore
Vaurent 0.6 Ysiette Everyshore
Wysalan 0.8 Thoulde Essence

All you need is at least 14 dumb pilots with aspergers to keep this up constantly.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2011-10-24 18:12:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Battle On wrote:
i think this whole "raping the miners" thing is getting all out of control, highsec used to be a safe heaven for casual gamers where we could just do whatever we like without worrying about nullsec/lowsec thugs that ruin people's eve experience. why cant these people go back to nullsec to change things there instead of raping us? dont they have better things to do then kill the eve economy?



First of all, there never was a safe heaven.
That said, second, you deserve that this happens to you, because.
Third ... it's EvE. Playing "casual", "safe" and "leave me alone" doesn't work.

Advise ?

Connect with your friends, if you have any.
Connect to groups. Then connect to corps.
Then connect these corps to an alliance.

You either defend yourself or die in a big ball of fire.

The choice is yours.

Welcome to EvE online. (which you probably never really played anyway)



PS: No other choices given. You have no right to demand safety.
Just because you never really played this game,
doesn't mean others can't play it WITH YOU THE WAY THEY WANT TO !

Your "life" in EvE lies within your responsibility.
Man up or die.

Good luck. :)


Edit:
"Battle On" is a rather ironic name for a miner...
Brynhilda
Chimp Hoons Export and Expo Service
Scary Wormhole People
#57 - 2011-10-24 18:13:42 UTC
David Grogan wrote:

also i really don't understand why industrial ships should be weak..... they are the most picked on type of ships.... if it was real life ship designers would be designing industrials that were extremely hard to kill...... tough tanks with plenty of defensive weapons not the current weak tank that exumers have and non existant tanks mining barges have with a few paltry drones for defense.


Quote my mining alt yesterday...

'Crappy ORE based CPU'
'Crappy ORE based capcitor'

My Retriever barely has the CPU to fit 2 Strip Miners and an upgrade and you want it to defend itself from rats? ORE technology is crappy at best. They're good for unique equipment but their standards are terrible.

How may I drug you with drugs?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#58 - 2011-10-24 18:14:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Karadion wrote:

Here are the locations of blue ice fields that makes it easy for us to do this operation.


I know one you are missing and my alt is loving it. Thanks for improving the prices for me. Blink

(Side note: If you don't want to get ganked, tank up and ice mine in a battle ship)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2011-10-24 18:16:08 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Karadion wrote:

Here are the locations of blue ice fields that makes it easy for us to do this operation.


I know one you are missing and my alt is loving it. Thanks for improving the prices for me. Blink

Low-sec? Sure have fun. You obviously don't get the point of why we were doing this in the first place. Go ahead and say whatever you want, pubbie.
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#60 - 2011-10-24 18:16:30 UTC
IMO it's lame that the most powerful corp in the game decided to dedicate themselves primarily to griefing newbies. Kind of pathetic IMO.

But, at the same time, I don't feel a ton of sympathy for people who are still ice mining in the space they're camping. It seems to me that you have a simple choice. If you don't like being harrassed, go do something else. You could mine else somewhere they aren't camping or mine ore. Or, god forbid, you could try to experience more of the game than the 1% that is ice mining. As a general rule of thumb, you should never find yourself with only one career in eve. Every career periodically becomes less profitable, more dangerous, less fun, flat out broken, etc. You need the ability to switch between them. Not to mention, any one career becomes boring after a while. So, if you're sick of getting hassled, go try something else for a while. Alternately, if you are choosing to continue ice mining, I have to assume it is because the goons are driving up the price and making it more profitable. If you're choosing to accept higher risk for higher rewards, again, I don't really feel like you're getting screwed.