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Jump Freighter Ganking - CCP what you will do against this???

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Starkiller Lothlorien
Doomheim
#341 - 2013-07-04 16:56:29 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
I <3 you.

Not being sarcastic. I've had enough of the machismo-can't-be-tough-irl-so-gotta-be-tough-on-a-videogame attitude that seems to permeate the EvE elite community.

Well, it's more of an illusory self-projection, but hey, some people need something to feel good about. Sometimes it's "winning" (lol Charlie) over someone else in a spaceship lasers game.

Nauseating at times. Thank you for a dose of fresh air.


"When confronted with their powerlessness, many noobs will attempt an attack on your real life, frequently insinuating that are a pathetic nerd irl. A special favorite of the noob is to question your sexuality, in particular to claim that you are a virgin, and that 'no real woman' would touch you voluntarily. Another popular tactic is to claim that you are/were helpless against physical abuse, and that you take out your frustrations on the innocent in game."


I took that off of a post in the (forgive me) WoW forums. You can replace "noob" with "carebear" and it applies to EVE easily. Aside from calling them all virgins, you pretty much nailed it.

I'd argue, that the kind of person you have to be to derive solace from imagining that someone who defeated you in a video game is actually a pathetic loser irl, would be the kind of person who isn't "winning!" irl themselves.

Lol


In other words, 'no, u!'
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#342 - 2013-07-04 17:01:45 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
of course you get a benefit, the benefit of being able to sit in a freighter and move piles of **** around the galaxy. it doesnt grant you invulnerability


But it doesn't justify the skill time when it's too easy for someone with less skills to destroy that freighter.

Now if the guy who downs the freighter is equally skilled, no argument. As both chose different "careers" and one was industry and the other combat.

But not for some 30 day wonder doing it. Ugh

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Starkiller Lothlorien
Doomheim
#343 - 2013-07-04 17:06:39 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
Starkiller Lothlorien wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Anna Djan wrote:
Although I see this as a whine post, being able to gank a 7bil ship with 500mil worth in highsec needs looking at.


Or rethink our skill system, because what's the point in leveling these skills, when a 2 week player can destroy what took 3+ months to skill for?

Even WoW rewards hard work better than this.

Put the time in = earned your rewards.


OP hasn't lost skills though?

Should have backup 2bil for buying replacement JF if ganked before he disembarks it from a station.


2 BIL will barely buy you a freighter, it wont touch a Jump freighter


Forgive me noob still not ofay with prices of stuff.

Motto still stands. Don't shoot your load into space if not enough in bank for second wind, amirite?

2bil, 2tril, 2mil, all same. I no fly Ret if my bank account has less than cost of new one. Makes first ret puppy eyes as it sits in dock waiting for second bankroll to build up, but if it goes bangbangboom, my eyes are dry as badabing badashming, replacement ready in seconds.

JF may be harder to get, though. I have no experience. Hi-level game seems pointless anyway as everything slower.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#344 - 2013-07-04 17:08:45 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
of course you get a benefit, the benefit of being able to sit in a freighter and move piles of **** around the galaxy. it doesnt grant you invulnerability


But it doesn't justify the skill time when it's too easy for someone with less skills to destroy that freighter.

Now if the guy who downs the freighter is equally skilled, no argument. As both chose different "careers" and one was industry and the other combat.

But not for some 30 day wonder doing it. Ugh


if levels in freighter skills should grant massive ehp buffs i assume levels in destroyer skills should grant massive dps buffs as well
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#345 - 2013-07-04 18:12:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
of course you get a benefit, the benefit of being able to sit in a freighter and move piles of **** around the galaxy. it doesnt grant you invulnerability


But it doesn't justify the skill time when it's too easy for someone with less skills to destroy that freighter.

Now if the guy who downs the freighter is equally skilled, no argument. As both chose different "careers" and one was industry and the other combat.

But not for some 30 day wonder doing it. Ugh


It takes 90 days for a fresh character to get into a freighter, it takes approx 23 days for a fresh character to get into a T2 fit Catalyst, by your logic 4x 23 day old destroyer pilots should be able to murder a freighter in highsec before Concord turn up, because they have invested an equal amount of time in training.

Using the freighter explosion in this thread it took 29 destroyers and someone in what was presumably a newbie frigate to take him down. Assuming that the destroyer pilots where flying T2 fit Catalysts (they're Goons, money isn't a problem) then we're looking at a skill training time investment of 667 days (29 pilots x 23 days) on the part of the gankers, vs a skill training time of 90 days on the part of the freighter pilot. That's 1.8 years of SP vs 0.25 years of SP.

Given the time investment required to carry out the example gank above, it's fairly obvious that the time investment required to destroy a freighter is considerably higher than the time investment required to fly one (7.4 times as high in the example I used).

In the words of CCP, "Progress is numbers", multiple pilots and ships should be able to overpower a single pilot and ship. If you think otherwise, I'll have some of what you're smoking.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#346 - 2013-07-04 18:28:51 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Using the freighter explosion in this thread it took 29 destroyers and someone in what was presumably a newbie frigate to take him down. Assuming that the destroyer pilots where flying T2 fit Catalysts (they're Goons, money isn't a problem) then we're looking at a skill training time investment of 667 days (29*23) on the part of the gankers, vs a skill training time of 90 days on the part of the freighter pilot.


The few pilots I looked up use meta 0 fits for the cats, T2 for the brutii

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=20006665
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#347 - 2013-07-04 19:12:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Using the freighter explosion in this thread it took 29 destroyers and someone in what was presumably a newbie frigate to take him down. Assuming that the destroyer pilots where flying T2 fit Catalysts (they're Goons, money isn't a problem) then we're looking at a skill training time investment of 667 days (29*23) on the part of the gankers, vs a skill training time of 90 days on the part of the freighter pilot.


The few pilots I looked up use meta 0 fits for the cats, T2 for the brutii

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=20006665


It turns out I erred on the cautious side with my 23 days for a T2 Catalyst, you can train the skills necessary for a T2 fit in the 23 days, but you can't fit it because of PG and CPU issues. It's actually nearer 50 days to get from newbie to efficient killing machine in a T2 Catalyst, 14 days of which are spent getting Electronics from 3 to 5 to get around CPU issues.

The fit in the killmail you linked only requires about 3 days to get the bare skills and then about another 14 to actually get it all to fit because of the PG and CPU issues.

Either way the maths still stands up to scrutiny, 29 pilots in meta 0 Catalysts, fitted as per the killmail you linked still required a collective total of at least 493 days training to carry out the gank I used as an example.

I'm assuming no remap and no implants used for the skill training times

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Tubrug1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#348 - 2013-07-04 19:14:03 UTC
Ah, this will make a good headline. "Great Goons Gank Greedy Pubbie".

Writer of The Eve Onion

I have a Twitter
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#349 - 2013-07-04 19:56:40 UTC
This is how it went down. 2 machs bumped the freighter for 10 minutes or so (to get out of range of gate guns) and agressed with a rookie toon before goons showed up. Goons got there regrouped got concord in sys off grid that took em another 5-10 minutes (agressed with another rookie toon) then they warped in i went global just after they landed. Concord came in as they fired on the freighter and Concord insta popped em so they got off one or two volleys the first round (they failed), Then they bumped (just 1 Machariel now) and agressed freighter 2 more times before they came in sys (1more time after they were in sys) with rookie toons to keep timer on it for 30 more minutes (15+15) (60 or so minutes in total) while they deaggressed global and reshipped then they came back in sys for another 5-10 minutes then finished it.

This is the intention of CCP Devs so its ruled as Intended Mechanics All is good
Maybe maybe not
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#350 - 2013-07-04 20:04:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Regardless of other discussions, I actually think the cost (ISK wise) between a freighter (without cargo) and the ships/equipment you have to buy to suicide gank one is a tad disproportional in favor of the ganker. For industrial and transport ships it feels much better.

Not that I have any hope of any changes in that regard. HTFU and all that jazz.


Given enough people you can gank anything for free.


You are not planning a gank fleet made out of free noob ship right?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#351 - 2013-07-04 20:05:59 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
of course you get a benefit, the benefit of being able to sit in a freighter and move piles of **** around the galaxy. it doesnt grant you invulnerability


But it doesn't justify the skill time when it's too easy for someone with less skills to destroy that freighter.

Now if the guy who downs the freighter is equally skilled, no argument. As both chose different "careers" and one was industry and the other combat.

But not for some 30 day wonder doing it. Ugh


The only single pilot that can kill a freighter before concord shows up is a titan pilot.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#352 - 2013-07-04 20:06:42 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Regardless of other discussions, I actually think the cost (ISK wise) between a freighter (without cargo) and the ships/equipment you have to buy to suicide gank one is a tad disproportional in favor of the ganker. For industrial and transport ships it feels much better.

Not that I have any hope of any changes in that regard. HTFU and all that jazz.


Given enough people you can gank anything for free.


You are not planning a gank fleet made out of free noob ship right?


It would take hundredsStraight
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#353 - 2013-07-04 20:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Frostys Virpio
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Regardless of other discussions, I actually think the cost (ISK wise) between a freighter (without cargo) and the ships/equipment you have to buy to suicide gank one is a tad disproportional in favor of the ganker. For industrial and transport ships it feels much better.

Not that I have any hope of any changes in that regard. HTFU and all that jazz.


Given enough people you can gank anything for free.


You are not planning a gank fleet made out of free noob ship right?


It would take hundredsStraight


A velator with 2 civilian light electron blaster (thats after poaching off extra velators) put out an incredible 8 dps at all V. Free is out of the question imo at this point. Too bad...

22524.25 second worth of dps.

1200 player on a node before it become stupid

18 seond of dps without concord intervention

Add 3 velator to cancel the 17 hps of regen.

Maybe...

More edits : We need to move those velator within the 0.6km of optimal.
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#354 - 2013-07-04 20:18:54 UTC
it would only take 10 velators with all t1 named mods with 2 aggressors and a machariel pilot that smokes crack since he would have to bump him 23 hrs
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#355 - 2013-07-04 20:20:03 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
it would only take 10 velators with all t1 named mods with 2 aggressors and a machariel pilot that smokes crack since he would have to bump him 23 hrs


Those are not free. You are skirting the rules.
Rasicloud
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#356 - 2013-07-04 20:33:31 UTC
if u have a motherf*****g urgent transport and want safe travel with your frighter, simply get a buddy/alt in a rapier/huggin/daredevil to instalock+web you.

the whole miniluv ganking needs a ton of preparations and metagaming (buying+fitting+transport ships to target systems, get enough people to fly those ships,coordinate (broadcasts and voicecomms) them so that they fire simultaniously etc.
people doing this deserve a reward
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#357 - 2013-07-04 20:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Rasicloud wrote:
the whole miniluv ganking needs a ton of preparations and metagaming (buying+fitting+transport ships to target systems, get enough people to fly those ships,coordinate (broadcasts and voicecomms) them so that they fire simultaniously etc.
people doing this deserve a reward


Sounds like incursions with less risk and better payout.
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#358 - 2013-07-04 20:39:35 UTC
a normal propper gank i agree deserves a reward but i dont care how much time you put into abusing a game mechanic it dosent deserve a reward. thats like saying a bot designer deserves a reward because he spent a lot of time making a bot. Its not working as intended
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#359 - 2013-07-04 20:42:54 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
a normal propper gank i agree deserves a reward but i dont care how much time you put into abusing a game mechanic it dosent deserve a reward. thats like saying a bot designer deserves a reward because he spent a lot of time making a bot. Its not working as intended


again, this is exactly what it was designed for
Warpshade
Warped Industries
#360 - 2013-07-04 20:47:37 UTC
Let me get this straight, the OP claims to of played Eve for 8 years, yet still doesn't understand the game? Roll