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At what point is something an Exploit and not game Mechanics ? Bumped for 60 Minutes

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Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#1001 - 2013-07-06 21:47:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Callyuk
Callyuk wrote:
Keyword here is PVP . Shooting a freighter is like shooting a CSAA or a Customs Office it cant shoot back. But if its a valid target to the aggressor then it dont matter, but for the aggressor to be bumping it and aggressing it with rookie ship noob alts while u fail hard at ganking because the person your ganking does know a little bit about high sec game mechanics then you should be banned for 1,3 or 7 days or at least given a warning.


Which this is all speculation at the moment as CCP has still not even acknowledged the petition. Probably wont either for another week or two.

My friend had a petition in for 10 days to retrieve his hacked account before the petition was ever responded to so i figure this one is probably lower on the totem pole than one like that as it should be.

Get them ISD's off SISI and put em to work on petitions for a month get the petition backlog caught up :)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#1002 - 2013-07-06 21:50:20 UTC
You do know what PvP stands for, right?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1003 - 2013-07-06 21:52:33 UTC
if csaas and pocos could be disappeared from space i would support giving them timers as well
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#1004 - 2013-07-06 21:52:49 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
Keyword here is PVP.

Player v Player, unless the freighter was being flown by a bot it's still PvP

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1005 - 2013-07-06 21:54:40 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
I'm going to take a chance and call you a liar. In fact, I will attempt to prove this tonight once I get home. I am going to take 2 of my accounts, and try to see which one gets the aggression timer first.

Both will be flying a freighter.

If I am able to get one to kill the other, I will correct myself and say you were right.

What's your side of the wager?


You won't gain an agression timer unless they are shot at by another player. Freighters are already special in this regard (due to being unable to fit offensive weaponry) but you, for some unknown reason, think they should be even more special. Good luck on spending several hours later proving exactly what we've been telling you though.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1006 - 2013-07-06 21:57:46 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
Keyword here is PVP . Shooting a freighter is like shooting a CSAA or a Customs Office it cant shoot back. But if its a valid target to the aggressor then it dont matter, but for the aggressor to be bumping it and aggressing it with rookie ship noob alts while u fail hard at ganking because the person your ganking does know a little bit about high sec game mechanics then you should be banned for 1,3 or 7 days or at least given a warning.


For us to be given the opportunity to fail at a suicide gank, the potential victim has already made several failures. Thanks for failing at flying a freighter & giving us the opportunity to suicide gank you.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#1007 - 2013-07-06 22:06:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Callyuk
You guys are as hard headed as i am :) u just like me just keep throwing the same stone with the same message . I really do understand why you dont want CCP to change anything or to rule this as an Exploit because its win win for you.

1 Its always fun to kill ****
2 you get paid for it

but there two sides to every story. and from my perspective i see exploiting mechanics all over this ****

Jedijed has 9 days to go before his Forum Ban is over :)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1008 - 2013-07-06 22:12:01 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
You guys are as hard headed as i am :) u just like me just keep throwing the same stone with the same message . I really do understand why you dont want CCP to change anything or to rule this as an Exploit because its win win for you.

1 Its always fun to kill ****
2 you get paid for it

but there two sides to every story. and from my perspective i see exploiting mechanics all over this ****


If we were actually exploiting anything, it would have been changed by now as a result of the last round of complaining (or the round before that). Do you really think you're the first person to explain exactly how we go about it & petition for changes?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#1009 - 2013-07-06 22:14:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Callyuk
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Callyuk wrote:
You guys are as hard headed as i am :) u just like me just keep throwing the same stone with the same message . I really do understand why you dont want CCP to change anything or to rule this as an Exploit because its win win for you.

1 Its always fun to kill ****
2 you get paid for it

but there two sides to every story. and from my perspective i see exploiting mechanics all over this ****


If we were actually exploiting anything, it would have been changed by now as a result of the last round of complaining (or the round before that). Do you really think you're the first person to explain exactly how we go about it & petition for changes?


I may be the first to have ever actually recorded it . Video speaks a thousand words. You guys ganking Must be like the Yetti Monster everyone has a story to tell but no PROOF

Our Logs Show Nothing
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#1010 - 2013-07-06 22:19:51 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station .


Where does anything from CCP say that a Freighter in HS is not a valid target?

Freighters have 150-200k EHP. A T1 Hauler tops out around 50k EHP. How does bumping a freighter make it less expensive to gank than a T1 Hauler (the only logical way to claim that it's more dangerous to fly in HS)?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#1011 - 2013-07-06 22:21:41 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Callyuk wrote:
I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station .


Where does anything from CCP say that a Freighter in HS is not a valid target?

Freighters have 150-200k EHP. A T1 Hauler tops out around 50k EHP. How does bumping a freighter make it less expensive to gank than a T1 Hauler (the only logical way to claim that it's more dangerous to fly in HS)?


Have it your way then

A freighter is more dangerous to fly around in high sec with than a t1 hauler
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#1012 - 2013-07-06 22:25:52 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
Keyword here is PVP . Shooting a freighter is like shooting a CSAA or a Customs Office it cant shoot back. But if its a valid target to the aggressor then it dont matter, but for the aggressor to be bumping it and aggressing it with rookie ship noob alts while u fail hard at ganking because the person your ganking does know a little bit about high sec game mechanics then you should be banned for 1,3 or 7 days or at least given a warning.


Just because it cant shoot back doesn't mean it's not PVP. It's pretty one sided, sure, but it's valid pvp. Deal with it.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#1013 - 2013-07-06 22:28:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Unezka Turigahl
I dunno about using the word exploit. But it is rather dumb from a role play or logic/realism point of view. The gankers are certainly gaming the system. I don't think its unfair to "require" freighters to have an escort or two if they want safety though. They are logical targets for pirates. And I assume hauling that much junk at one time can amount to some nice profits. Or at least a lot of time saved. Trade offs.

I'm more interested in Tornados ganking Tengus that are travelling gate to gate. How does this work? Does the Tengu need to be AFK at a gate or something stupid? Tengus align pretty quickly... do the Tornados grab them while they are warping off, or as they are landing?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#1014 - 2013-07-06 22:28:37 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
Everything is a valid target but a freighter not at war being aggressed by noob toons to keep a timer on him is just chickenshit bullshit . if you want to gank a freighter do it like its always been done with alpha fleets . the new flagging system has open a door that im pretty sure CCP didn't know was unlocked .

If CCP were to stand behind a gank identical to this one then basically there saying to all their subscribers/gamers if you fly a freighter or ever will fly one F*** U (middle finger up) and Good Luck to you Brave Pilot .

And i don't think CCP would ever say that to there Subscribers/Gamers


Why is using one fleet composition to kill a Freighter any more or less valid that any other fleet composition?

The intent of the flagging change was to prevent logging off from being a valid means of escape from combat for anyone. Why should Freighters be special?

CCP was saying (with changes that are now almost 2 years old) "there are plenty of ways to keep your ship safe. Abusing the logoff mechanics is no longer one of them."

Webbing alt/Friend (the guys trapping you have friends, why should you be able to easily counter them solo?)
Scouts
Common Sense (don't be worth ganking)
Counterbumps and Webs
Ganking the bump ships (counters are generally not free. Stop whining that killing your attackers is going to cost you something)
Ganking/EWARing the gank ships
Logging/Ejecting/Self Destructing (All stop the bumpers from bumping *you* at the likely cost of your ship)
Safe-Logoff before they aggro (i.e. taking advantage of their mistakes as they try to take advantage of yours)
and so on...

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1015 - 2013-07-06 22:29:02 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Callyuk wrote:
You guys are as hard headed as i am :) u just like me just keep throwing the same stone with the same message . I really do understand why you dont want CCP to change anything or to rule this as an Exploit because its win win for you.

1 Its always fun to kill ****
2 you get paid for it

but there two sides to every story. and from my perspective i see exploiting mechanics all over this ****


If we were actually exploiting anything, it would have been changed by now as a result of the last round of complaining (or the round before that). Do you really think you're the first person to explain exactly how we go about it & petition for changes?


I may be the first to have ever actually recorded it . Video speaks a thousand words. You guys ganking Must be like the Yetti Monster everyone has a story to tell but no PROOF

Our Logs Show Nothing


Nope. It's been recorded many times before & nothing changes because there is no exploiting going on, but please do keep providing us with wonderful tears, this is half the reason we do it.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#1016 - 2013-07-06 22:29:54 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
Have it your way then

A freighter is more dangerous to fly around in high sec with than a t1 hauler


How in the world do you come to that conclusion?

How is it cheaper to gank a Freighter than a T1 Hauler, or what other metric for "dangerous" are you using?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#1017 - 2013-07-06 22:31:38 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Callyuk wrote:
You guys are as hard headed as i am :) u just like me just keep throwing the same stone with the same message . I really do understand why you dont want CCP to change anything or to rule this as an Exploit because its win win for you.

1 Its always fun to kill ****
2 you get paid for it

but there two sides to every story. and from my perspective i see exploiting mechanics all over this ****


If we were actually exploiting anything, it would have been changed by now as a result of the last round of complaining (or the round before that). Do you really think you're the first person to explain exactly how we go about it & petition for changes?


I may be the first to have ever actually recorded it . Video speaks a thousand words. You guys ganking Must be like the Yetti Monster everyone has a story to tell but no PROOF

Our Logs Show Nothing
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#1018 - 2013-07-06 22:33:15 UTC
I'll agree it's kind of dumb from a "roleplay" kind of perspective, but it's a necessary evil - prior to the recent changes, high ehp ships, like capitals and freighters, were manually killing the client to save themselves. That's really bad for a bunch of reasons, and from a role play perspective is also really dumb.

Obviously people who log off "properly" and not as a way to save themselves shouldn't be penalised, and for that theres safe log offs.

There's a few unfortunate situations where maybe disconnects or whatever leave players vulnerable through no fault of their own, but there's always going to be some edge case where something undesirable happens. The system is currently as good as it can be right now, I think
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1019 - 2013-07-06 22:36:41 UTC
Neither bumping or suicide ganking are going away, get over it.

Anyway let's get this thing to 100 pages and win me my bet

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#1020 - 2013-07-06 22:38:35 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Callyuk wrote:
You guys are as hard headed as i am :) u just like me just keep throwing the same stone with the same message . I really do understand why you dont want CCP to change anything or to rule this as an Exploit because its win win for you.

1 Its always fun to kill ****
2 you get paid for it

but there two sides to every story. and from my perspective i see exploiting mechanics all over this ****


If we were actually exploiting anything, it would have been changed by now as a result of the last round of complaining (or the round before that). Do you really think you're the first person to explain exactly how we go about it & petition for changes?


I may be the first to have ever actually recorded it . Video speaks a thousand words. You guys ganking Must be like the Yetti Monster everyone has a story to tell but no PROOF

Our Logs Show Nothing