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At what point is something an Exploit and not game Mechanics ? Bumped for 60 Minutes

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#981 - 2013-07-06 20:29:28 UTC
SmokinDank wrote:
Either you're trolling or that wiffing sound was my point going over your head.


Or I simply require you to not speak in assumptions.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#982 - 2013-07-06 20:30:48 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

No, the idea that a smaller, cheaper ship can actually have an impact against bigger, more expensive ones is exactly what makes EVE balanced.

Also, your other complaint - cloakers - is also actually perfectly balanced. There's a billion threads about that, and a gigantic collection thread on Features and Ideas if you want to see why you're wrong on that one.

hope this helps


The stupidity of your first point is that the bigger ship has a massive buffer to prevent this little ship from doing such a thing. But CCP designed things so poorly that a shuttle could keep it bumped out of alignment to prevent it warping. So, you know, no.

On the second point AFK cloaking isn't "perfectly balanced". It's the biggest **** in Eve in terms of game design. It's appallingly awful. You only think it's good because you use it to troll/grief people. I'm talking about good game design here. Nobody would think such a thing was good game design, if they wanted to be taken seriously as a game designer.

So again, I can hear your mom calling you.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#983 - 2013-07-06 20:31:22 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:



Exactly.

And let's see... why doesn't?

Aren't freighters just like "any other ship"?

Tippia said they were.

Take it up with her.


Yes they are, hence why they come under the same aggression mechanics as everything else. You just agreed with me again on this matter.



That's kind of... self delusional. First you said a freighter vs a freighter has nothing to do with aggression mechanics. Then you say I agree with freighters being like any other ship, where any other ship has aggression mechanics.

I think you need to sit back and rethink your attack sir.


The aggression mechanics for freighters are exactly the same as they are for any other ship. Hope this helps


I'm going to take a chance and call you a liar. In fact, I will attempt to prove this tonight once I get home. I am going to take 2 of my accounts, and try to see which one gets the aggression timer first.

Both will be flying a freighter.

If I am able to get one to kill the other, I will correct myself and say you were right.

What's your side of the wager?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#984 - 2013-07-06 20:31:59 UTC
cloaking is balanced by local hth
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#985 - 2013-07-06 20:32:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Yes you can.

You just can't pod the pilot with yellow safety.
…in low or nullsec, at which point it's not a suicide gank, so no.



Just to be literal here... in lowsec gateguns/stationguns can kill a catalyst.

I'm just saying. (Sorry for the delay, I missed that post).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#986 - 2013-07-06 20:33:12 UTC
also if shuttles can bump freighters why isn't miniluv using them instead of expensive machariels?
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#987 - 2013-07-06 20:34:56 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
also if shuttles can bump freighters why isn't miniluv using them instead of expensive machariels?



I'd guess it has something to do with mass and effectiveness.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#988 - 2013-07-06 20:35:30 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Solutio Letum wrote:
This thread has no evidence of any bumping due to the user deleting the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y


Its the capital drivers fault, he could of asked someone in local to help him for some money, just start a dual with the one who you gave the money, web the capital ship to hell and warp off after you can align.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#989 - 2013-07-06 20:37:03 UTC
Solutio Letum wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Solutio Letum wrote:
This thread has no evidence of any bumping due to the user deleting the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y


Its the capital drivers fault, he could of asked someone in local to help him for some money, just start a dual with the one who you gave the money, web the capital ship to hell and warp off after you can align.



I think the question is application of mechanics versus preventive maintenance of meta gaming.

But yes, the freighter pilot was stupid.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#990 - 2013-07-06 20:42:49 UTC
So I guess I survived that gank lol.

Have a good weekend folks.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#991 - 2013-07-06 20:59:15 UTC
Mag's
Azn Empire
#992 - 2013-07-06 21:07:47 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
The aggression mechanics for freighters are exactly the same as they are for any other ship. Hope this helps


I'm going to take a chance and call you a liar. In fact, I will attempt to prove this tonight once I get home. I am going to take 2 of my accounts, and try to see which one gets the aggression timer first.

Both will be flying a freighter.

If I am able to get one to kill the other, I will correct myself and say you were right.

What's your side of the wager?
But he's not lying and we've been over this again and again. Just because a freighter CANNOT aggress, doesn't exclude it from the aggression timer. Once the freighter is aggressed, it gets the timer. The timer treats the freighter just like every other ship, in this regard.

At this point, I'm starting to believe your deliberately missing the point of this mechanic and it's application.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#993 - 2013-07-06 21:15:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Callyuk
I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station .
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#994 - 2013-07-06 21:23:32 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
I'm going to take a chance and call you a liar. In fact, I will attempt to prove this tonight once I get home. I am going to take 2 of my accounts, and try to see which one gets the aggression timer first.

Both will be flying a freighter.

If I am able to get one to kill the other, I will correct myself and say you were right.

What's your side of the wager?


My side of the wager is that I am right and you don't understand the mechanics. You're misunderstanding what the time means - it does not mean "I pulled the trigger on someone else" it means "I was involved in an act of aggression in some way" - that includes being on the receiving end

hope this helps
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#995 - 2013-07-06 21:25:45 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station .


The implication in your post is that a freighter, in highsec, and not at war with someone, is not a "valid target". This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how EVE works. Every ship, in every area of space, is a "valid target" the second it undocks. It does not matter what the ships role is, what corporation the player is in, or what the other person is in (be it anywhere from a noobship to a titan). They are valid targets, and get the timer so they cannot just pull the plug to save themselves

Hope this helps.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#996 - 2013-07-06 21:31:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Callyuk wrote:
I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station .
It was an intended mechanic and freighters are not and should not be exempt.

Just because you don't like the idea of a random noob ship, or more likely don't know the connection of the pilot flying it and why he's agressed, does mean any exploit doors have been opened. It means the players are using the mechanics of the game, how they were meant to be used in this sandbox. It also does not render freighters useless, in all but processing and in system station movements.

Plus I would like to know exactly how you could put in place a mechanic, that could differentiate between who is and who isn't eligible to shoot a freighter tbh. Without breaking the game. (Hint: Everyone is eligible)

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#997 - 2013-07-06 21:36:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Callyuk
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Callyuk wrote:
I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station .


The implication in your post is that a freighter, in high sec, and not at war with someone, is not a "valid target". This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how EVE works. Every ship, in every area of space, is a "valid target" the second it undocks. It does not matter what the ships role is, what corporation the player is in, or what the other person is in (be it anywhere from a noobship to a titan). They are valid targets, and get the timer so they cannot just pull the plug to save themselves

Hope this helps.


Everything is a valid target but a freighter not at war being aggressed by noob toons to keep a timer on him is just chickenshit bullshit . if you want to gank a freighter do it like its always been done with alpha fleets . the new flagging system has open a door that im pretty sure CCP didn't know was unlocked .

If CCP were to stand behind a gank identical to this one then basically there saying to all their subscribers/gamers if you fly a freighter or ever will fly one F*** U (middle finger up) and Good Luck to you Brave Pilot .

And i don't think CCP would ever say that to there Subscribers/Gamers
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#998 - 2013-07-06 21:40:22 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Callyuk wrote:
I don't disagree that a freighter should get a timer when its a valid target say in low sec null sec or by war targets in high sec but by a random noob ship it shouldn't get a timer . its like opening the door for exploits that (i assume was an unintended mechanic by CCP) will make freighters more dangerous to fly than a t1 hauler. therefore rendering them useful only for reprocessing or in system from station to station .


The implication in your post is that a freighter, in high sec, and not at war with someone, is not a "valid target". This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how EVE works. Every ship, in every area of space, is a "valid target" the second it undocks. It does not matter what the ships role is, what corporation the player is in, or what the other person is in (be it anywhere from a noobship to a titan). They are valid targets, and get the timer so they cannot just pull the plug to save themselves

Hope this helps.


Everything is a valid target but a freighter not at war being aggressed by noob toons to keep a timer on him is just chickenshit bullshit . if you want to gank a freighter do it like its always been done with alpha fleets . the new flagging system has open a door that im pretty sure CCP didn't know was unlocked .


here is the quote again:

Quote:

* PVP flags CAN be created and further extended after log-off even if the owner did not have a PVP flag at the time of disconnect.. If Char A logs off in space (with or without a PVP flag), and then char B attacks A, then A will get a PVP flag. Char A's ship will then remain in space for as long as that PVP flag exists.
These changes should ensure that unavoidable disconnects (eg caused by network problems) aren't massively penalising, whilst ensuring that manually killing the client to avoid PVP is never a viable strategy.
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#999 - 2013-07-06 21:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Callyuk
Keyword here is PVP . Shooting a freighter is like shooting a CSAA or a Customs Office it cant shoot back. But if its a valid target to the aggressor then it dont matter, but for the aggressor to be bumping it and aggressing it with rookie ship noob alts while u fail hard at ganking because the person your ganking does know a little bit about high sec game mechanics then you should be banned for 1,3 or 7 days or at least given a warning.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1000 - 2013-07-06 21:45:29 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
Keyword here is PVP . Shooting a freighter is like shooting a CSAA or a Customs Office it cant shoot back


the freighter still has a player piloting it