Science & Industry

There are mostly 2 kinds of people in high sec:

1. New players, who need an incubation area, insulated from the hardships of wh, low, and null sec. Most corps living in the proscribed areas already weed out these new players with self-imposed SP minimums, but even so, the new players are going to start out in high sec for good reason.

2. The casual player, who does have the time, nor the inclination, or both, to spend insane amounts of time doing something that requires full attention when undocked (supposedly) like living in null, wh, or low sec. These are people that have jobs, families, other commitments, and or maybe just good sense. They want a game where they can come home, and relax doing something that they can extract themselves from quickly, so they can get dinner, or say good night to the kids, or go to bed at a decent hour to get up for a job. Their money is just as good as anyone else's, and they happen to be the majority of players in this game. But the typical null sec player can't envision that choice, or lifestyle. They think spending 5 hours trapped in a game operating at 10% normal speed (read about the latest battle in null) is great fun.

As for the forums, many many casual players don't even know that these exist, and if they do, don't want to get dragged into the cesspool of comments from the hardcore null sec fanatics. (For the record, I am the fanatic defending the casual player, the high sec player, so I am the anomaly.) That is why there is this large amount of the comments come from the null sec players begging CCP to destroy high sec. The majority of the players in this game are very very silent.

Oh, and one last thing, try to find the last dev that CCP hired who had a high sec background, and then compare that to the amount of devs hired who had null sec backgrounds. That goes a long way to explaining the current views of CCP towards the game that past employees created.

Never said I wanted to destroy highsec. I doubt anyone in null would. Simmer down on the hyperbole. It's not like I'm coming to got yer guns or something. It's a damn video game after all.

High sec has a lot of good reasons to exist as it is. Null sec however is at the height of emergent gameplay, which is the core goal of eve. Improving null sec is key to the game's long term suvival. But when miners and industrialists get there, there is a collective da fuq? That is why us in the "cesspool" of "hardcore nullsec fanatics" want to see more changes to improve the space so there are better options when someone leaves high sec.

Anyway, All this isn't about high vs null and the original topic seemed to be a blanket change that affects everyone. So I'm not sure why you keep railing against this. Sounds like you need to run for CSM if you are so passionate about high sec and want to see it protected from us dirty nullsec people. Either that or head over to the general discussion forums because this really isn't the place anyone to start this sort of debate IMO

Sounds like you got a few issues. Just remember this is a video game man. No need to get worked up over pixels. If you are paranoid about getting harassed, maybe it's time for a break. Seriously.

It isn't just pixels though, is it. It's persistent records in a database. You know, like your bank balance. You wouldn't say, "hey, it's just a db record" if someone pwned your bank account for £5k, would you?

Or perhaps you would. Who knows.

If someone came to my house and stole all of my stuff would I starve? Would I lose my job? Would my family be in danger?

Calm down. It's just real life.

Thing is Zifrian, it's not really for you to decide what's important to people and how much they value this or that, is it? It's different for different people.

A.) Emergent gameplay is the "end game" of EvE. This could be founding a large learning corp like EvE Uni, this could be creating the a major highsec industry center, this could be conquering half of nullsec, this could be anything, anywhere, for any reason you decide!

B.) The whole "nerf highsec" mentality is more about balancing the "risk vs reward" paradigm. The more you risk, the more greater the profits. So lets talk about industry within that framework:

Harvesting is balanced. You are "moderately" safe, but get the lowest rewards in highsec. You are more at risk, but with better rewards in lowsec. And you have the best rewards in nullsec & WH's, but also have the highest risk. Now there are techniques (closing WH's), in-game tools (local), and innovations (intel channels) that make harvesting in these "dangerous" areas safer, but generally speaking, to get the best rewards you have to put yourself in the "most risk".

Refining: So not balanced. Highsec NPC stations have the best refine rates, and their taxes can be completely circumvented through standings. Lowsec is solid, although moving ores & stuff to be reprocessed about is signficantly more dangrous. WH and Nullsec offer the worst refining rates and have the most dangerous logistics. Obviously the risk vs reward paradigm simply doesn't hold here! Here is a serious question: Why should refining be best in highsec, where this operation is easier to perform and much less risky?

Manufacturing: So not balanced. Highsec offers an enormous amount of MFG stations, with marginal operation costs, and large numbers lines per station. Lowsec is decent, but the logistics are more dangerous. Nullsec has a 1 station per system limit and with a low number of lines (it's better now). POS MFG is there to augment station MFG, but the added costs really have a difficult time competing with the cheap highsec lines. WH only has POS MFG! And frankly, moving goods from the producer to the consumer is harder when living in nullsec/WH/lowsec because the market hubs in these areas are either non-existent, or very limited in terms of consumers (not to mention the risks in moving your goods to market). Here is a serious question: Why should MFG essentially be most efficient in highsec, where operating expenses are negligible, and ascertaining materials and selling products is not only much less risky, but easier?

Invention: This is more balanced. Highsec ME slots and Copy slots have month+ wait times, and encourage people to setup POS's that are vulnerable to assault. Lowsec, Nullsec, and WH space quite often use POS's, too. With nullsec even offering a discount on POS operating expenses. The tradeoff is nullsec has less access to decryptors and datacores, but risk in transporting those isn't as great (given their small volume).

Now, at the minimum, nullsec MFG & Refining should be brought on Par with highsec, ideally in a manner that creates inefficiencies everywhere (I mean, why train scrapmetal/Ore processing to five if it doesn't give you any added benefits)!

Personally, I'd also like to add more devices for emergent gameplay in highsec:

Market Analysis Agents that allow you to identify who is buying and selling items.
Financial Analysis Agents that allow you to monitor the transfer of money between players, corps, and/or alliances.
Industry Analysis Agents that allow you to identify who is using the S&I slots in a station.

o/

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=251424

it's starting to make sense now isn't it?

No more gun mining!!!!!!!

Gun mining in missions was seriously nerfed with the removal of base t1 modules. I don't see the point in _all_ refines being non perfect refines. The only net impact that has on the game is make hauler drops slightly more valuable (as they are minerals already). If they want nullsec refines to be slightly better relative to highsec refines, then make 30% base (or whatever it is) to 32% base, or whatever moves it usefully closer.

Further impacting the actual module drops would leave us at the point where it is impossible to build a T1 frigate out of highsec derived resources, which is a stupid place for the game to be.

they have already seriously damaged the ability to reprocess stuff to reformat the minerals to current market demand without losses because of how many blueprints now carry extra materials.

It does not matter how it is phrased, this will be another attack on high sec profitability.

First of all my reply was based on logic, the important point I was making was to say that the more insecurity there is, the lower the level of production will be, this is borne out by how few Sov 0.0 stations have been upgraded, and not one single 0.0 spergelord was able to refute that. If the 0.0 crowd want better refining upgrade your station, and maybe ask CCP to drop the cost of the station upgrade which is stupidly expensive!