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PvP is totally uncompetitive and unfair

First post
Author
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-06-28 23:10:00 UTC
Well, I sympathise with the OP in a way, but I think something has raised his expectations about "fairness" in combat in Eve, so that is the real problem here.

I think pretty much the only time I see really fair fights in this game is when I'm watching the alliance tournament.
Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#22 - 2013-06-28 23:11:01 UTC
T1 frigates and faction warfare or RvB if you don't need the isk. At 3m SP I was at least one for one kill/loss.

Skill, rather than just skill points, matters too.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Arduemont
The State of War.
#23 - 2013-06-28 23:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
I have created accounts and had them killing people on day one. PvP in Eve is complicated, and requires a large degree of knowledge and fine tuning. You can kill people with vastly inferior skills and ships, you just need to know how.

The old rocket Merlin was the perfect example. Fit it with rockets, two webs, a medium shield extender and a afterburner and you could kite any normally close ranged ship so far out of their optimals that they couldn't hit you at all. People used Rifters and Tristans as the standard, but even with max skills and best kit on them, they would die to a T1 fit Merlin flown by a 1 day old character.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-06-28 23:12:37 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Here's an idea: check player histories before agreeing to duel. If someone is more than twice your age (assuming you are less than 6 months old), they will likely have a significant advantage over you, especially if they are trained in a specialized manner.

PvP in Eve is just as much about preparation and picking your battles as it is about the pew itself.


yeah you've pretty much proved my point about pvp in this game. It only really matters about how old your character is. If your character is old is most likely able to use tech 2 weapons and then its game over


only to a point

skills cap at 5
once you have a few trained to 5 as well you will have just reduced part of the advantage a more veteran player has

a more veteran player if tightly focused on skill training, may have more options than you, and then again they may not
they may have trained for 1 specific ship, with 1 specific fitting. and then stopped training that particular character

in answer to the OP
no pvp in eve is not fair, it is not particularly well balanced either
if it was changed to be fair, or balanced. it would no longer be eve
and then what would be the point playing anymore
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#25 - 2013-06-28 23:16:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Lazers
Peter Raptor wrote:
moral of the story, Eve is about team work


LOL.
The moral of the story, get a bigger fleet so the other side gets no chances.
In eve there is no fair pvp or people with skills, there is only one zerg ganking another fleet with less people in it.

Whatever.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#26 - 2013-06-28 23:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Quote:
No I spend the night going round faction warfare systems trying to find a frigate to fight against and got instant killed in all cases. Then got gate camped and pod killed. You see why I'm not having fun.


There's your problem. This sentence sounds to me like you expected a fair fight, and got an unfair one.

The problem is that your expectations are wrong. You need to change them. As long as you keep having expectations of getting something that you cannot feasibly get, you will be frustrated forever.

That, or as someone else mentioned, join RvB. Plenty of good fights there.

The next thing is, you need better education on what to do, how to do it, and what ship and mods to do it with. You can't just jump into an established PvP community and expect to kick all the buttocks with whatever you happened to have attached to your ship at the time. That would be utterly unacceptable to the people who have worked so hard and so long on their character skills, their fits, and their individual piloting abilities, if you could just roll in as a noob and take them out without effort.

So, to compete, you need to make a similar effort to theirs. That's how the game is balanced, after all. It rewards effort, and everyone has the same opportunity as everyone else. It's what you do with it that matters.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#27 - 2013-06-28 23:37:02 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS



Well general D we tried to help him in new citizens Q&A but he's a failure of gaming...he's all yours.
Vrenth
Kestean Imperial Navy
#28 - 2013-06-28 23:43:27 UTC
The cool thing about multiplayer games, they are meant to be played with multiple people. Bring 5 new friends and I bet that 5 year old pilot doesn't do as well.
Onyx Nyx
The Khaleph
#29 - 2013-06-28 23:53:22 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSb7mlz7Hag

I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more.

  • Richard (http://www.lfgcomic.com/)
Steve WingYip
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-06-28 23:55:01 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


Don't solo then. It's an MMO, multiplayer, use other players and play together.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#31 - 2013-06-28 23:56:04 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS



Not this again.

Look up a player named Harry Forever. He's making incursions into goon space with T1 frigates, getting kills, and having boatloads of lulz.


Stop complaining and shoot.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Evelgrivion
Origin.
Black Legion...
#32 - 2013-06-29 00:01:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Evelgrivion
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


If you don't want EVE to be hard, EVE doesn't want you.

This game isn't "honor-duels in space," it's "hit them when they're weak, flee when they're strong, harass them when the opportunity comes, catch them by surprise, and destroy them when you can" in space. If you want to feel powerful in New Eden, get friends, get a clue, or get another game.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#33 - 2013-06-29 00:01:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
OP, your Eve experience would improve if you would stop posting whine threads and start listening to what people advice you to do. You are around for what, a month or two, and you still don't get it. It doesn't matter what you do - be that piracy, missions, FW, PI, incursions, high/low/null - if you don't learn you will always be that whiny kid everybody hates.

Find a corp which does what you think you want to do now and stick with them for some time. You can always change corps, it is not like RL, you don't need to serve your notice period or anything. Just join some group and learn from them. If they suck learn why they suck and how you can exploit it, if they excell at something learn why they excell and how you can be like them.

Learn 2 play, stop 2 whine.

Invalid signature format

Disastro
Wrecking Shots
#34 - 2013-06-29 00:13:08 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


Whine on the forums moar. It works.
Short Stack122
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-06-29 00:26:47 UTC
confirming that as a player with LESS than 2 months worth of skill i got on plenty of KillMails... i fitted an Atron with webs and points and just held guys down during pvp. had plenty of fun and learned quite a bit.

TL;DR
learn how to be effective at your SP level
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#36 - 2013-06-29 00:35:30 UTC
Even if you lose you still were in PvP. Plus not all PvP has to be you solo roaming in FW space.

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.

BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#37 - 2013-06-29 00:37:07 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants. Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink. Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you. THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


I understand your frustration. But don't quit just yet Blink You can have some good fun PvPing and quickly too. I think the first Key is GET HELP! Find a good pvp corp that is willing to help train you and especially LEARN HOW TO FIT :)

Different PvP experiences get you different results: Hi-sec solo duel PvP - you have the choice of who you fight. You can scan their ship fits, look at their kb's and see how they fit and determine if you have a good shot at winning the fight possibly.

FW, RvB would be good experiences if you have other players helping you along. Fighting with a fleet is awesome if you have a good FC.

low sec/null sec can be pretty intimidating, but once again if you get in with players that can help you and teach you, then you can be successful at PvP quickly.

It seems as if you are guaging all PvP from a very limited range of experience. Personally I learned to PvP solo in High sec from a couple of corp m8's who had experience. Then before I fought anyone I checked their kb's and looked at how they fit and how successful they were. I found many older pilots than myself having fail fit pvp boats and so I would take them on and win. Your logic says that I should not have been able to win since I was 1 to 2 years younger than them - but that wasn't the case. This then helped me become a better part of fleet operations for wardecs.

I think my whole long post boils down to getting some m8's in game and learning from them and you may find that you can PvP with cheap ships and have some good PvP fun.

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?

Dranchela
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-06-29 00:37:15 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
basiclly if you want to PvP in this game your screwed as a starting player. People say that you can pvp at any level but I call them lies. Pretty much any chance of PvP you get the enemy will be with tech 2 guns and faction ammo or in a bigger ship than you. Everyone has webifier and warp jammers so you can't escape and then you lose your ship. With luck you might keep your pod, if not you lose your expensive to get implants.

Nothing is fun about this for the new player and it is all just a money sink.

Its only fun for the people who have the skills and money to get the best guns and then its game over for you.

THERE IS NO POINT OF PVP FOR NEW PLAYERS


We must be playing a different game, you and I.
Ari Laveran
Aideron Robotics
#39 - 2013-06-29 00:56:56 UTC
Confirming that PvP is hard, but not because of SP. I lost 17 frigates to the fires of low sec before I scored my first solo kill but I kept notes and chatted with the guys who blew me up afterwards most were friendly and happy to talk about how I screwed up or even share fits with me. I'm 4 months in and just now getting my head wrapped around eve combat to the point I'm not derping away every ship I take out (though I still do a fair bit of that too). Eve is Guerilla warfare and mind games more than raw dps and tank.

Even the guy who pointed my Ishkur at 30k camping the Dodixie undock during a war dec resulting in a fiery explosion was willing to explain how that was possible and how I could have avoided it.

Off topic: Docking bookmarks if you think you are going to dock there more than once take the time to make a set.
Daimon Kaiera
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-06-29 01:01:59 UTC
Get gallente destroyer I and Weapon Upgrades I.

Fit a 200 dps catalyst.

Go find friends.

Gank miners.

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