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Should remove PLEX as a form of payment... pull the free to play

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Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#241 - 2013-06-28 10:28:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
It's also the local telco monopoly that I think makes America absolute crap in terms of affordable high-speed internet. 4Mb dsl for 50$ a month is just sad.


I get 30mb, Fiber, and I pay 85$ a month. You just have to know who to talk to, and how to talk to them.


I live in some po-dunk town in the middle of Alabama, I was surprised they even had dsl. Lol Otelco is the local op, and they're really the only game in town, unfortunately. I'm hopeful that AT&T wil lbe buying Otelco out soon, I enjoyed U-verse service while I had it in Florida, 10mb connection, 4 tv's with HDTV on IPTV and phone for like 150ish bucks a month.

Quote:


You hit on it, by the way. It's the infrastructure, the telecom backbone. The new companies had no startup costs, which has enabled them to leverage that into the disparate monopolies they currently hold. It's a tactic called "Product inundation". You make the cost of doing business against you higher than is affordable, so in order to carve out a market share, you have to eat a loss significant enough that it's all but impossible unless you have the kind of capital to pull it off. Electric companies do it a lot too.


Electric companies were the other one, though as much as I hate them I'm not sure how competing infrastructure would work. I can't imagine having multiple power wires and techs coming out to disconnect one and connect another to a house when you change service.

And I will see myself out of this thread. It's 5:30 am, i should have bene asleep 5 hours ago.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2013-06-28 10:33:19 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
What stupidity, precisely? Missing your context for that.


Out of everything you just said, it seems you missed more than my context, but my entire point. And, it's clear you know nothing about Australia. Climbing out of a socialist dumpster? Really? Aaaaand we're back to "go learn something".


You have universal health care. You're socialists.


Wrong. Universal health care does not a socialist country make. Having socialist aspects does not make a country socialist, because we also have capitalist aspects. That means we're standing on a relatively healthy middle ground. Hence why I said, if you want to witness a compromise, come to Australia. The reason why you're so stuck on being so wrong with everything you say and assume is your premise is false: that you think there can only be one or the other.

There are two kinds of people in this world: those who think in false dichotomies, and penguins Roll

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#243 - 2013-06-28 10:36:01 UTC
Franco Stein wrote:
been reading the forums and see you all trolling about what this game is.... mostly it's a sandbox.

This game is junk with its entrenched player base that pays nothing to play and makes the most noise.
The PVP is worthless and the PVE is boring.

REMOVE PLEX and make people pay for this game out of pocket to have real players who contribute.
REMOVE PLEX and get rid of the PAY to Win model..

Don't buy Plex.



Go away then... we won't miss you. This thread should have been locked right after your OP.

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#244 - 2013-06-28 10:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
It's also the local telco monopoly that I think makes America absolute crap in terms of affordable high-speed internet. 4Mb dsl for 50$ a month is just sad.


If there's no money in it, the companies won't build. Where I live Comcast dominates, despite there's some areas that Cox and other providers can expand.

But if the piece of the pie is so small, there's little return on the investment, and that's the real reason the market isn't getting cheaper. Got to have real competition, and the little guys offering features equal to Comcast at a cheaper price. For an upstart they can't buy wholesale bandwidth like Comcast can, they're nickel and dimed on everything as they can't buy in volume at a cheaper rate.

And if the government gets involved, telecommunications becomes protected just like commercial airlines (the rates are cheaper these days, service is horrible).


*facepalm*

So, how is it, that if you can understand and apply the concept of niche marketing being a successful strategy, why are you unable to apply it to EVE and to CCP?

Here's the thing, WoW? Is Verizon. It's huge, it has more customers, but it has almost universally ****** service, people complain about it more than taxes, and if they have an alternative they run to it.

EVE is your local provider, who sells you the product you need in a niche market, because what you want, the big guy won't give to you, because you live in a small town (that being, this gaming niche; PvP centric, permadeath, full market economy).

But you rail every day, in multiple threads, for EVE not adopting Verizon's behavior.

So... wtf.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#245 - 2013-06-28 10:46:55 UTC
Quote:
Wrong. Universal health care does not a socialist country make. Having socialist aspects does not make a country socialist, because we also have capitalist aspects.


Alright, I gave an example of a socialist trait adopted by Australia. Please give an example of a capitalist trait. Because what you are doing is, citing something without giving a proper example, and declaring victory in the discussion by virtue of what is, literally, the card you are holding behind your back while saying "trust me...". No. I'd like to see that card, so we can continue.

Quote:
Hence why I said, if you want to witness a compromise, come to Australia. The reason why you're so stuck on being so wrong with everything you say and assume is your premise is false: that you think there can only be one or the other.


My premise remains sound. Australia is neither large enough, nor has existed for a period of time long enough in their current hybrid social philosophy to make a determination of the long term viability of such a society. The European nations alone have existed long enough in a "nation state" level of society to use them as a possible metric, but they are all socialists.

You may be an example of it working right now, but that is no guarantor of the future. That is what I mean when I say that the experiment of a hybrid middle ground society remains unproven. Particularly given that you have yet to produce a valid one.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#246 - 2013-06-28 10:57:44 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
What stupidity, precisely? Missing your context for that.


Out of everything you just said, it seems you missed more than my context, but my entire point. And, it's clear you know nothing about Australia. Climbing out of a socialist dumpster? Really? Aaaaand we're back to "go learn something".


You have universal health care. You're socialists.


Wrong. Universal health care does not a socialist country make. Having socialist aspects does not make a country socialist, because we also have capitalist aspects. That means we're standing on a relatively healthy middle ground. Hence why I said, if you want to witness a compromise, come to Australia. The reason why you're so stuck on being so wrong with everything you say and assume is your premise is false: that you think there can only be one or the other.

There are two kinds of people in this world: those who think in false dichotomies, and penguins Roll


Australia is on the extremist end from anywhere from environmentalism to welfare. It's not about compromises.

I experienced socialist medicine, it's called our military healthcare system. It killed some of my friends, and nearly killed me. When you experienced the worst (have a femur broken, get it set without any pain relief, and told to shut up due to the pain -- never again).

You mentioned how horrible homelessness is, yet don't understand homelessness. Do you really understand socio-economic theories and it's impact? Or are you defending a system you're used to in your country?


_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
GreenSeed
#247 - 2013-06-28 11:05:16 UTC
i always love when topics that could result into what i perceive as a negative effect on MY game, end up in a discussion of irl politics, internet, or other random inconsequential crap.


the GD off-topic gank squad squad makes me proud.

death to the f2p heretics!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#248 - 2013-06-28 11:07:26 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
i always love when topics that could result into what i perceive as a negative effect on MY game, end up in a discussion of irl politics, internet, or other random inconsequential crap.


the GD off-topic gank squad squad makes me proud.

death to the f2p heretics!


*salutes*

Always vigilant!

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
#249 - 2013-06-28 11:11:20 UTC
This thread is going places!
Thar Saal
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#250 - 2013-06-28 11:14:32 UTC
Abon wrote:
This thread is going places!


apparently.

Plex saves players money, power to the players.

time til lawsuit 5...4...3...
Josef Djugashvilis
#251 - 2013-06-28 11:28:47 UTC
Annual subscription cost works out at £7.50 per month.

I would rather waste the in-game isk I earn on pvp etc than PLEX.

CCP provide the payment options, you make the choice.

Each to their own and that class of thing.

This is not a signature.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#252 - 2013-06-28 11:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
It's also the local telco monopoly that I think makes America absolute crap in terms of affordable high-speed internet. 4Mb dsl for 50$ a month is just sad.

I get 30mb, Fiber, and I pay 85$ a month. You just have to know who to talk to, and how to talk to them.
That's still horribly slow for an awful amount of money. I pay $35 (equivalent) for my 250/100MB fibre line... :smug:

While there may be regional variance, overall and on average, it's not a big secret that the US is still lagging behind in all forms of telco services, largely due to the monopolistic structure of the non-market.


...oh, and PLEX is still neither F2P or P2W, and the OP is still delusional.
Amuntis
Cayman Island
#253 - 2013-06-28 11:40:59 UTC
IRL money is paid for each and every single PLEX in the game. Whether someone sells their plex or loots it from a wreck, that PLEX was paid for with actual money. Pay to win simply does not exist in EVE.

PLEX is still the single greatest idea I have seen in a MMORPG such as this.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#254 - 2013-06-28 11:54:16 UTC
Amuntis wrote:
IRL money is paid for each and every single PLEX in the game. Whether someone sells their plex or loots it from a wreck, that PLEX was paid for with actual money. Pay to win simply does not exist in EVE.


P2W does exist in EvE.

Folks don't want to see the underside of PLEX (the real economy) but, yeah, the game is setup as P2W. Not directly like in cash shop games, but with enough taxes and fees to ensure you'll be drained of ISK. Especially true with newer players without the passive income to offset the heck of a lot of taxes/fees in this game (this game needs an American Revolution on taxes that's for sure).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#255 - 2013-06-28 11:57:53 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
P2W does exist in EvE.
In what form?

Quote:
Not directly like in cash shop games, but with enough taxes and fees to ensure you'll be drained of ISK. Especially true with newer players without the passive income to offset the heck of a lot of taxes/fees in this game
So.... it's really more like Pay To Lose -- the richer you are and the more expensive stuff you buy, the more ISK they take away from you.
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#256 - 2013-06-28 11:58:10 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Amuntis wrote:
IRL money is paid for each and every single PLEX in the game. Whether someone sells their plex or loots it from a wreck, that PLEX was paid for with actual money. Pay to win simply does not exist in EVE.


P2W does exist in EvE.

Folks don't want to see the underside of PLEX (the real economy) but, yeah, the game is setup as P2W. Not directly like in cash shop games, but with enough taxes and fees to ensure you'll be drained of ISK. Especially true with newer players without the passive income to offset the heck of a lot of taxes/fees in this game (this game needs an American Revolution on taxes that's for sure).



I take it that this means you don't like the 11% NPC corp. tax.
Arcelian
0nus
#257 - 2013-06-28 12:41:19 UTC
Franco Stein wrote:
Abon wrote:
Dear OP,

Since you are incredible dense (no offence seriously but you are) i propose an experiment.

I want you to buy some PLEX for real money and sell those PLEX in Jita. Afterwards i want you to buy your P2W 1337 carrier pilot on the char bazaar. Then you will proceed to put that character into a new shiny officer fitted carrier (bought with PLEX of course). You can then proceed to a lowsec system of your choosing where i will visit you in my own plebian and worthless carrier that i bought by "grinding" (aka blowing up some poor guy and taking his cargo which takes like 2 minutes but ok.) I am a worthless player who pays his sub with CC so i cannot afford officer modules of course. The grind would simply take years and years.Roll

Since according to your logic your master race officer fitted carrier is a P2W carrier you can commence melting my puny carrier to slag since i have no chance whatsoever and should better eject right away. Let me know when you have set up everything so we can enjoy solid proof of your believes.

(Disclaimer: Sarcasm, you will probably die in <5 minutes and i will loot your P2W ubermods. Pirate Play this game for a year and we talk again...maybe.)

Ugh



Outside of the negative comment.... you are again mistaken.

With your logic CCP should do the following.

1) Remove any requirements to fly ships, mods, etc.
2) Stop the progressive skilling of characters.
3) Remove any leveling in game or character progression.

You could just as easily have a very skilled player who knows exactly how to win your above scenario, but only so darn lazy he refuses to work for it in game and throws down his cash to get this win....to make him feel like a big boy.

Learn the difference . . . . . it's not about skill, it's about long term players not paying anymore for the game and ANY player's ability to add RL money to a game to get a quick road to whatever!!!!

Remove PLEX and you will have to EARN your wins or truly FEEL those losses, and WAIT for those big finishes.


On one hand you're complaining about those that don't have to pay to play the game, then you are complaining about the end result of the players who get the isk for paying for that "entrenched" players sub. All you are really complaining about is being poor.

If you get rid of plex, then they will pay with real life cash, and you will still get BBQ'd, now they have even more isk to not "feel that loss."

This post is so full of fail, and your logic is so flawed, but so many people bite.

10/10
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#258 - 2013-06-28 12:44:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
It's also the local telco monopoly that I think makes America absolute crap in terms of affordable high-speed internet. 4Mb dsl for 50$ a month is just sad.

I get 30mb, Fiber, and I pay 85$ a month. You just have to know who to talk to, and how to talk to them.
That's still horribly slow for an awful amount of money. I pay $35 (equivalent) for my 250/100MB fibre line... :smug:

While there may be regional variance, overall and on average, it's not a big secret that the US is still lagging behind in all forms of telco services, largely due to the monopolistic structure of the non-market.


...oh, and PLEX is still neither F2P or P2W, and the OP is still delusional.


In rural Pennsylvania? 30mb is kick ass. My closest alternative is 5mb.

PLEX is merely a subscription model, that you can sell to other people. It's a way that, if you so choose, you can pay in game currency to renew your sub. You're still paying, and the person who bought the plex still paid for it, so it's not F2P. If money were any guarantee of success in this game, it would be P2W, but then so would hard work, since that makes money too. So hard work is OP, we should nerf it. While we're at it, nerf having friends, that is insanely OP.

You know what? **** it, nerf everything. (especially Concord)

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#259 - 2013-06-28 12:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Knights Armament
Franco Stein wrote:
been reading the forums and see you all trolling about what this game is.... mostly it's a sandbox.

This game is junk with its entrenched player base that pays nothing to play and makes the most noise.
The PVP is worthless and the PVE is boring.

REMOVE PLEX and make people pay for this game out of pocket to have real players who contribute.
REMOVE PLEX and get rid of the PAY to Win model..

Don't buy Plex.


if I sit in an asteroid belt mining veldspar for a week to buy plex, how is that not working, it doesn't stop pay to win either.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=eve+online+isk+for+sale

Click here to get something special for new players, an EvE Trial Invitation extremely rare, high quality.
Sir Mack Inawrex
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS
#260 - 2013-06-28 13:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Mack Inawrex
Franco Stein wrote:
PLEX is a cheat because NO game should allow a player to gain advantage using Real money in a true Player VS Player game.

I asked you to explain your train of thought. This is just a statement of your belief. Why do you think using real money to pay for in-game items is a cheat?

Quote:
I don't have a shinny and I don't want to grind for it, so i just pull my wallet out and buy it. In this game Ships, modules, etc.. are GEAR == do you get it!

Yeah, I get it.

Quote:
GEAR in EVERY OTHER Game is earned and not bought with RL Money.

Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2, Silk Road Online and more F2P MMOs than you can shake a stick at disagree with you.

Quote:
Granted knowing what to do with that GEAR is subject and takes time.

This is quite a major point you've glossed over. Knowing what to do with gear significantly trumps the gear itself in EvE Online.

Quote:
but Gear is earned.... PLEX does not EARN you GEAR

Yes, it does. Remember: Time = Money. If I give up my time grinding missions, playing the market or scamming people for ISK, it's no different than working behind a till in a supermarket, earning a paycheck and using that money to buy items. Not in principle, at least.

Of course, the difference may be that you simply don't want to. As you mentioned in an earlier post, you may want to become space-rich by playing the market and nothing else. This is your goal and using PLEX would be cheating on the way to that goal. However, this is only cheating by your rules, not by CCP's, nor any other player's. You are the one that has set this restriction for yourself.

"it BUYS you that GEAR. That is why it is a Cheat Code."
So the entire open market is in fact a cheat and should be removed from the game. Buying stuff for ISK really isn't any difference than paying for it with real cash: I'm exchanging currency for goods with another party, to the mutual benefit of both parties.

"…but now only one beacon of light survives.  A stubborn world that dared to defy Mintchip, Lord of the Lollipops."