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How to solve the population problem in low sec
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Arec Bardwin
#101 - 2013-06-27 14:37:27 UTC
Move EVERYTHING to lowsec. Only way to be sure.
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#102 - 2013-06-27 14:45:45 UTC
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
handige harrie wrote:
so how do you explain mining in Lowsec is already the most profitable mining you can do in the game atm and still people don't go there?

http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore


What makes you think lowsec has a population problem?


That is rubbish profit, if we are talking about actual NET profit after expensing exhumer and barge losses and clone costs, or the opportunity cost of mining in a venture, then people are still better of in hi sec.

Make the roids pay out, quadrule, 5x, 10x and then it becomes economically worthwhile. At some point it will reach an equilibrium and SOMEONE will come because the risk-adjusted returns justify it. I don't believe that all miners want zero risk gameplay, that's just a lazy assumption.


My point exactly.

The market would decide how much the risk of mining in low sec is worth because the prices would reflect that risk.

If nocxium was readily available in any lowsec area and was worth 10 times more than mining morphite u can be absolutely sure there would be people there reaping the riches.


So you don't want more people in low sec, you want less people in lowsec so you can mine in peace?

Baddest poster ever
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
#103 - 2013-06-27 16:27:57 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Gealbhan wrote:
You will never get a dedicated mining bear into low sec, ever. Don't even try. Arrow


No one is trying to get you gaybirds into low sec....we're trying to make you quit and go back to WoW. Arrow


Did Opie just state that? Seriously?


Yeah, and when Opie calls you a gaybird you know that you are in-fact a gaybird.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#104 - 2013-06-27 17:35:18 UTC
handige harrie wrote:
so how do you explain mining in Lowsec is already the most profitable mining you can do in the game atm and still people don't go there?

http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore


What makes you think lowsec has a population problem?



The inhabitants and their eternal moaning about more rewards when they already have far more than they should have considering the amount of players in those areas.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#105 - 2013-06-27 17:54:08 UTC
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
I'm not going to write a wall of text because my solution isn't complicated, ideas don't need to be complicated to be good.

How do you populate low sec? My solution is mining related.

You simply put something there that wont exist anywhere else, preferably a basic mineral like nocxium, mexallon or isogen.
Perhaps CCP could create a new type of asteroid that only contains that mineral.

You need incentive to go to lowsec. Right now it's far easier to just join any nullsec corp and reap the riches in a nullsec belt because those belts are usually alot richer in content than low sec belts, alot safer too.

Imagine if low sec was the only place to mine say, nocxium, sure nocxium prices would spike incredibly but it would make low sec far more interesting for mining corps and populate low sec in no time because where there's money to be made there will be people making it.

You are forced to go to nullsec to get large quantities of morphite, why not force people to go to lowsec to get nocx, mex or isogen?



Posting in a Stealth "I want more easy targets in lowsec" thread....

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Ekhss Nihilo
Dominion.
Pandemic Horde
#106 - 2013-06-27 19:31:59 UTC
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
I'm not going to write a wall of text because my solution isn't complicated, ideas don't need to be complicated to be good.

How do you populate low sec? My solution is mining related.

You simply put something there that wont exist anywhere else, preferably a basic mineral like nocxium, mexallon or isogen.
Perhaps CCP could create a new type of asteroid that only contains that mineral.

You need incentive to go to lowsec. Right now it's far easier to just join any nullsec corp and reap the riches in a nullsec belt because those belts are usually alot richer in content than low sec belts, alot safer too.

Imagine if low sec was the only place to mine say, nocxium, sure nocxium prices would spike incredibly but it would make low sec far more interesting for mining corps and populate low sec in no time because where there's money to be made there will be people making it.

You are forced to go to nullsec to get large quantities of morphite, why not force people to go to lowsec to get nocx, mex or isogen?

How about Good humor ice cream trucks, er, barges?

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius (AD 121-180)
Barron Hammerstrike
Medusa Nova Mining And Trade
#107 - 2013-06-27 20:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Barron Hammerstrike
Lowsec is just how and what it should be. The place for those who don't want the safety of high or the politics of null. Fringe players to be exact. At least that's the way I see it.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2013-06-28 01:29:08 UTC
I can assure you, the last thing lowsec needs is more carebears. We already have more than enough. It just so happens that they aren't miners. They are militia pubbies with three core stabs and a cloak fit, and dscan set to 1.5 AU with only ships showing, so they can run plexes with zero risk of getting blown up.
Warran Simalia
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2013-06-28 03:15:44 UTC
Barron Hammerstrike wrote:
Lowsec is just how and what it should be. The place for those who don't want the safety of high or the politics of low. Fringe players to be exact. At least that's the way I see it.


I agree. It's what I always considered lowsec to be.
Feanira Darr
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#110 - 2013-06-28 04:26:17 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
I can assure you, the last thing lowsec needs is more carebears. We already have more than enough. It just so happens that they aren't miners. They are militia pubbies with three core stabs and a cloak fit, and dscan set to 1.5 AU with only ships showing, so they can run plexes with zero risk of getting blown up.

> fk missions anyway
> FW plexing is where its at
> i just fly about in my rapier
> dscan 5 million km
> anyone pops up i cloak

> how much you makin?

> 16k LP per medium plex
> each takes around 20 minutes
> 60% lp discount on ships

"Tibus Heth could also benefit from working 'The Plan'." -DMC
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2013-06-28 04:32:06 UTC
Fortunately for me, there's not enough ISK in the game for me to sit around orbiting buttons for hours on end. I'm there for the cheap solo/small gang pvp experience. You can have the PvE mechanics of it. I could care less of GalMil was at 2%. Would just mean more people for me to kill in the sites as all of the bears with little concept of the mechanics come in droves to milk the CNR/CND teat.
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#112 - 2013-06-28 09:13:47 UTC
Make low sec a tax free zone. Nuff said.Cool

Empire, the next new world order.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2013-06-28 09:54:02 UTC
Feanira Darr wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
I can assure you, the last thing lowsec needs is more carebears. We already have more than enough. It just so happens that they aren't miners. They are militia pubbies with three core stabs and a cloak fit, and dscan set to 1.5 AU with only ships showing, so they can run plexes with zero risk of getting blown up.

> fk missions anyway
> FW plexing is where its at
> i just fly about in my rapier
> dscan 5 million km
> anyone pops up i cloak

> how much you makin?

> 16k LP per medium plex
> each takes around 20 minutes
> 60% lp discount on ships


The funny thing is, PvE wins in the end.

The attention span of the average PvPer won't outlast someone who can put up with EvE's mission system for years.

By default PvErs will get to low and null, when the game becomes more PvE friendly...and that happens when the PvPers get bored and look for greener pastures (and that happens when CCP wants to milk the game, as that's where the cash is).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Feanira Darr
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#114 - 2013-06-28 10:23:24 UTC
you mean people don't enjoy their gameplay being disturbed or having their stuff wrecked? whaat

"Tibus Heth could also benefit from working 'The Plan'." -DMC
Marmaduke Hatplate
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2013-06-28 10:30:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Yep, im dangerous enough to play a video game and risk getting my pixels blown up, as opposed to the majority of gamers who can't seperate reality from gaming and actually think that "losing" means anything.

But that's not the point. The point is, i'd personally much prefer that my favorite game not turn into some ghetto mess, at least not more than it already is with all the "wahhh, ccp, your game is too hard, fix it so that I can feel awesome in the same way most other games make me the hero" crap.


This is rather a revealing statement about the psychology of the average player. In most games, you are "The" hero. The game is structured in such a way that the storyline revolves around you and your actions. You are just one guy, a little humanoid, but you are the big fish in the small pond of the railroad storyline.

In EVE, quite the opposite. In EVE, as a capsuleer, you might as well be a god. But so is everyone else, and the world (universe is a better word) turns with or without you. A bigger fish, certainly (most battleships are worth the GDP of a developed planet), but a MUCH bigger pond.

It's a very different mindset.


Amen, and that's what makes it great. But it's also what some want to tear down.

EVe lore tells you that you are a God, but EVE the actual game says "you are a scrub flying in a ship that is , at best, a disposable pawn on a giant chess board". The only decision you get is "be the Master of be MASTERED".

That choice too much for the average gamer, which is a sad commentary on the state of humanity imo.


That's not my impression at all. I've played quite a few MMOs: WoW, TSW, WAR, Conan, D&DO, Aion to name some, and all of them, just like Eve, gave me avatars which were essentially immortal, and in all of them I was more or less the same as every other player in terms of effect on the gameworld or in my feeling of place/scale in conparison to everyone else. City of Heroes might be an exception to some extent, as the barrative delivery systems in that gamecwere so much more deep and expansice, but I was still just one hero smong many.

Eve's no different to any of the others, really. There's no permadeath, there's progression, there's a lot of other snowflakes.

Other thoughts on this thread:

Eve being news-worthy: not really, outside of niche reporting. Diring my long break from Eve, I occasionslly googled 'eve scandal' for the latest intrigue, but I had to go looking for it, it wasn't on the bbc lol.

Lolsec mining: I've been to lolsec, null and WH space in a cheapfit vent and made ISK. It's fun.

"Friends and fun...The only 2 really important things in EVE Online." - Crazy Dutch Guy
Marmaduke Hatplate
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-06-28 10:30:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Yep, im dangerous enough to play a video game and risk getting my pixels blown up, as opposed to the majority of gamers who can't seperate reality from gaming and actually think that "losing" means anything.

But that's not the point. The point is, i'd personally much prefer that my favorite game not turn into some ghetto mess, at least not more than it already is with all the "wahhh, ccp, your game is too hard, fix it so that I can feel awesome in the same way most other games make me the hero" crap.


This is rather a revealing statement about the psychology of the average player. In most games, you are "The" hero. The game is structured in such a way that the storyline revolves around you and your actions. You are just one guy, a little humanoid, but you are the big fish in the small pond of the railroad storyline.

In EVE, quite the opposite. In EVE, as a capsuleer, you might as well be a god. But so is everyone else, and the world (universe is a better word) turns with or without you. A bigger fish, certainly (most battleships are worth the GDP of a developed planet), but a MUCH bigger pond.

It's a very different mindset.


Amen, and that's what makes it great. But it's also what some want to tear down.

EVe lore tells you that you are a God, but EVE the actual game says "you are a scrub flying in a ship that is , at best, a disposable pawn on a giant chess board". The only decision you get is "be the Master of be MASTERED".

That choice too much for the average gamer, which is a sad commentary on the state of humanity imo.


That's not my impression at all. I've played quite a few MMOs: WoW, TSW, WAR, Conan, D&DO, Aion to name some, and all of them, just like Eve, gave me avatars which were essentially immortal, and in all of them I was more or less the same as every other player in terms of effect on the gameworld or in my feeling of place/scale in conparison to everyone else. City of Heroes might be an exception to some extent, as the barrative delivery systems in that gamecwere so much more deep and expansice, but I was still just one hero smong many.

Eve's no different to any of the others, really. There's no permadeath, there's progression, there's a lot of other snowflakes.

Other thoughts on this thread:

Eve being news-worthy: not really, outside of niche reporting. Diring my long break from Eve, I occasionslly googled 'eve scandal' for the latest intrigue, but I had to go looking for it, it wasn't on the bbc lol.

Lolsec mining: I've been to lolsec, null and WH space in a cheapfit vent and made ISK. It's fun.

"Friends and fun...The only 2 really important things in EVE Online." - Crazy Dutch Guy
Willie Horton
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2013-06-28 11:01:13 UTC
Mycool Jahksn wrote:


How do you populate low sec? My solution is mining related.



Why you want to have more populated low sec? More is not always better .More neutrals in system will not result in more fights always.

If you want more people that will venture in low sec so they can be raped there that is ok ,but that will work only for some time .Players in general dont like to loose things in any games.This game is not any different in that part from other games.

For me number of players venturing away from high sec is ok, cause I see low and null as badlands and wastelands with all kinds of riches that are not so easy to collect.Ofc that is how I see it ,so my EvE is different than your EvE.That is why this is called sandbox cause we are making stories how we like.

Miners that are doing that semi afk or afk ,will never ever go low sec.The way they need to mine there is opposite from their needs ,like mining from work or low activity process so they can do something else in life.No way they will spam d-scan no matter what ore CCP place there.simply that will ask from them to be active.
Thugnificent Gangstalicio
Doomheim
#118 - 2013-06-28 11:10:33 UTC
Horrible idea. Let's imagine they actually start to mine high-end ores in lowsec...
You'll either encounter a fuckton of ventures that warp off belt when they see you, or you'll have some pretty good organization going on in the mining corp, so they pay off a local pirate corp to permanently insta-lock camp the gates into the system.

Now we have a lowsec with even more insta-lock camps - good fight!
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#119 - 2013-06-28 11:22:17 UTC
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
I'm not going to write a wall of text because my solution isn't complicated, ideas don't need to be complicated to be good.

How do you populate low sec? My solution is mining related.

You simply put something there that wont exist anywhere else, preferably a basic mineral like nocxium, mexallon or isogen.
Perhaps CCP could create a new type of asteroid that only contains that mineral.

You need incentive to go to lowsec. Right now it's far easier to just join any nullsec corp and reap the riches in a nullsec belt because those belts are usually alot richer in content than low sec belts, alot safer too.

Imagine if low sec was the only place to mine say, nocxium, sure nocxium prices would spike incredibly but it would make low sec far more interesting for mining corps and populate low sec in no time because where there's money to be made there will be people making it.

You are forced to go to nullsec to get large quantities of morphite, why not force people to go to lowsec to get nocx, mex or isogen?


Your solution is flawed because it limits the specific player it targets. Low Sec needs to attract ALL player types again. From explorers, to miners, mission runners, faction warfare, pirates, etc. The key is incentive. The reward must be greater than the risk. We need to foster an environment that is challenging yet rewarding. Harsh yet dynamic.

Low Sec has long had it's PVE element all but ruined (unless you count speed ratting level 5's in a Carrier) therefore it has no incentive except for a purely combative element. What we need is an area that has a healthy balance of both. Say for example Faction Warfare persons defending an area of space and running sites that pay well.

All the while having Pirates be a threat and forcing combat and creating content all can enjoy. Once you give a PVE incentive again for players to venture to Low Sec and KEEP a presence there be it a corp or a militia to keep reaping benefits of the region it becomes more dynamic and rich.

Fix the PVE elements of Low Sec and you create a balanced dynamic that we desperately need. Also think of basing the new Pirate Factions there for newer players if they so choose to be Pirates. Make Pirating a more lucrative means for newer players. Give players more choices that keep them interested.

Low Sec is infamous for some of if not THE best place for small gang to mid sized fleet combat. It is home to some of the most experienced pilots and those whom live there (including me) care about creating content for ALL of Eve. Not just Piracy.
Feanira Darr
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#120 - 2013-06-28 12:38:05 UTC
Thugnificent Gangstalicio wrote:
[...]You'll either encounter a ton of ventures that warp off belt when they see you[...]

would also be funny.

"Tibus Heth could also benefit from working 'The Plan'." -DMC