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Get rid of gate camps.

First post
Author
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#121 - 2013-06-30 03:52:40 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Gealbhan wrote:
Gate camps are an integral part of EvE Online. Nothing more needs to be said. Arrow


They weren't always and every time I point this out I get a slammed but I'll say this again.

In the early days of Eve there wasn't anything that could survive the gate guns, then ships evolved and now gate guns mostly kill new players that don't understand how they work. Gate guns no longer serve any practical purpose.

So why doesn't CCP evolve the guns or just remove them, because right now they have no useful purpose? CCP thought once combat was supposed to be somewhere other than low sec gates but now doesn't seem to care. CCP recently floated a suggestion to fiddle the guns (which I supported) but the vocal minority (already prepping for rants about that comment) got CCP to back down.

So now I say "CCP, fix the guns or take them out all together!"

Issler



Gateguns kill interceptors and other frigates pretty fast. If you can't see how this has an effect on camps, I suggest you try being a pirate for a month.


Never said gate guns can't chew up a number of smaller ships. And to the other person that said you could always tank a gun , as someone close to 10 years in Eve I'd say noting close to what you can do today.

So still we can point at lots of places that are virtually perma-camped. What I'd love to see is the percentage of ships lost to general noob stupidity to actually intentional PvP at the gates in smaller ships. Like I said, if they aren't getting buffed (I don't see that happening) pull them out all together, you still have a nice high sec/low sec/null progression because I can't bubble low sec gates but can null. And guess what someone can even jump on the "it would lower lag!" bandwagon! Big smile

Get rid of low sec guns and save a noob today!! P

Issler
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#122 - 2013-06-30 03:54:50 UTC
Every post i read in this general topic is a QQ post.What?
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#123 - 2013-06-30 07:20:12 UTC
1) Remove the need for a cyno field to use jump drives. Jump drive without cyno plants ship within 10km to 100km (random) of the nearest pathed gate of the target system in a completely random direction.

2) All ships have built-in jump drives.

3) Grab popcorn as all bot-campers transmorph into flaming balls of tears.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Bruce Kemp
soy bois
No Handlebars.
#124 - 2013-06-30 07:43:24 UTC
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
Here is the ship you're looking for: http://i.imgur.com/t2ZGfrd.jpg


Is this a joke?, that think looks like it could impregnate women from orbit. Lol
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#125 - 2013-06-30 08:12:56 UTC
burp!

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#126 - 2013-06-30 09:28:06 UTC
Yeah, kinda agree with OP that gate camps need some sort of change. Done more than my fair share of gatecamping, and been caught in a few myself. I think the major issue I've always had with gatecamps is the "blind jumping". Map statistics don't help the first fish to jump into the net, and requiring an alt just to move about "safely" seems kinda silly. Nevertheless, gatecamps should still be a viable option. Possible solution would be to change the game where you catch traffic coming into the gate, rather then traffic that has jumped thru.

Like others suggested change the radius of arrival after a jump to 200km. Or even better, make it settable (like the Warp To settings) so gangs can still stay in close proximity. The huge radius would make catching targets after a jump nearly impossible (though somebody could probably devise a super-boosted Gallente Recon that could still pull it off).

Then to make it possible to catch incoming traffic warping to the gate, add in an effect similar to a warp bubble to all gates. Anything that would land within 15km of the gate gets pushed out to the edge of the bubble. So even if you use bookmarks or warp to gang member, you still end up 15km from the gate. But if you warp in at range, you're not dragged in. It would slow down travel quite a bit, and make large slow ships much more killable (like JFs for instance). Careful travelers would be better able to avoid the camps, but fortunately there is no shortage of stupid people in EvE.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#127 - 2013-06-30 09:42:50 UTC
If only there were some kind of way to check out what's on the other side with a cheap ship

Even better would be if there were several kinds of ways

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2013-06-30 10:05:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Inokuma Yawara
How about this? New NPC: Concord Parking Enforcer. Gate camping will be considered parking, and parking is not allowed. Players who gate camp get a Parking ticket based on how long they've been parked. 5 mil ISK, every ten minutes if they are within 50Km of the gate.

Gate camping will become costly, and will stop. Same thing with station camping....

You can get a Parking Permit, to allow you to camp gates and stations, from the Concord Parking Enforcement Office, but it's only good for one week, and you can only camp for WANTED felons.

Hmmm..... That would mean that Concord Parking Enforcement would be in Low Sec, as well as High Sec space. They don't avenge victims of murderous pirates like Concord Police would. They just assess a fine for parking violations. So, you could get away with murder in Low Sec, just don't do any parking violations and it'll be good.

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.

Doc Spectre
Doomheim
#129 - 2013-06-30 11:14:06 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
If only there were some kind of way to check out what's on the other side with a cheap ship

Even better would be if there were several kinds of ways

I have a rare and special unknown mod that allows you to see what's on the other side of a gate.

I will sell it for 500 Billion... Dollars not ISK...
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#130 - 2013-06-30 11:22:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
If only there were some kind of way to check out what's on the other side with a cheap ship

Even better would be if there were several kinds of ways


If only the game encouraged complete immersion death by having secondary roles that are only sensible filled with a boxed alt.
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2013-06-30 12:13:49 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
If only there were some kind of way to check out what's on the other side with a cheap ship

Even better would be if there were several kinds of ways


Personally i dont mind camps, its more the jumping blind to the other side, some of you will say scout with a alt, thats not so easy when you, like me only have one rig, one character, and like to play the game like that, and alot of other people like it this way...

But, what i would like to see implemented is, when you get to a gate, you can access it, and get a system sweep from the end gate, see it as you make a call to the gate personal, "hey, could you call the end gate and give me a situation report", "five battleships, ten cruisers, several frigates, on the other side", "sweet thanks, ill look for a alternate route"... its a rather high tech universe, and its should be more then possible to get a call the end gate from the gate your at, and if technically possible, get a update on whats waiting around the gate you about to jump through...

Maybe add a isk sink cost for using gate custom service or something ;P
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#132 - 2013-06-30 15:30:26 UTC
Changing gate camps won't do all that much without removing bubbles. You can always set up a bubble in between gates. And systems that have camps a lot tend to be the ones that link large parts of null and only really have 2 gates more or less anyway. Otherwise they are hunting someone they know is there... At least IMHO. Fleets don't just gate camp any random gate.

But meh....War is tears and PvP is war. Your a capsuler, death does not become us.

I pray i am never so poor as not able to afford a clone with that can hold all my SP. Getting podded then would really suck.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Dorrann
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2013-07-01 07:59:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


You're making some very shaky assumptions in your post. I'll list a few of them.

(1) You're assuming that everyone in lo/null wants more people in lo/null (wrong)

(2) You're assuming that theese people who are wanted are unaffiliated strangers, rather than members of the groups already there (very wrong indeed).

(3) You're assuming that there aren't already viable ways to avoid gatecamps (extremely wrong)

(4) You're assuming that I'm "howling" for the nerfing of hi-sec. This is particularly wrong..

(5) You are assuming that the only way to get people into low/0.0 is to make it mechanically more like hi-sec.

In short: nobody in 0.0 wants people to move from hi-ec to 0.0 if the price is making 0.0 more like hi-sec. It's best if the people who like hi-sec stay in hi-sec and the people who want to move to 0.0 put in the minimal effort required learn how to operate in 0.0 rather than spend far more effort in "howling" for changes.


(1) If the Low/Null dwellers dont want more people in LowSec, why do they keep asking for the reasons to STAY in HighSec to be removed ?

(2) I'm talking about un-established new players, who go there not knowing already what they will find on the other side. I have a friend who went into Low to buy a collect a skill book (he told me about this after the fact) and nearly lost his ship because he had no way to know how steep the difference in gameplay is from one side of the gate to the other. Honestly, I couldnt care less about alts or already affiliated players who are forewarned or already have the required knowledge, I'm talking about NEW players, not second accounts or alts.

(3) I KNOW there are viable ways to avoid camps, I use them myself, but I dont expect a NEW player to know these things, which means they have little chance of surviving their early encounters into LowSec. For many of them (not all, bu many) this puts them off going back anytime soon, so they learn how to use HighSec then adopt the "risk averse" nature that Low/Nullers are always bitching about.

(4) Every time a thread like this comes up you trot out the same line about nerfing high sec by removing L4 missions, thereby increasing the incentive to enter LowSec..... not once in a while.... pretty much EVERY time. Howling may be an exageration, but the fact is, you either want more people there, or you want less people in High, which amounts to the same thing (or just less people playing)

(5) I'm not asking for a Mechanical change, my suggestion has been for the PLAYERBASE in LowSec to adjust their "If It Moves Kill It" attitude. But in all honesty I know this wont happen, if for no other reason than they dont have an alternative way to get such easy kills.

I know I wont change the minds of the Lowsec population, simply because they dont want to change, they want HIGHSEC to BE changed to suit them.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#134 - 2013-07-01 08:03:32 UTC
Dorrann wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


You're making some very shaky assumptions in your post. I'll list a few of them.

(1) You're assuming that everyone in lo/null wants more people in lo/null (wrong)

(2) You're assuming that theese people who are wanted are unaffiliated strangers, rather than members of the groups already there (very wrong indeed).

(3) You're assuming that there aren't already viable ways to avoid gatecamps (extremely wrong)

(4) You're assuming that I'm "howling" for the nerfing of hi-sec. This is particularly wrong..

(5) You are assuming that the only way to get people into low/0.0 is to make it mechanically more like hi-sec.

In short: nobody in 0.0 wants people to move from hi-ec to 0.0 if the price is making 0.0 more like hi-sec. It's best if the people who like hi-sec stay in hi-sec and the people who want to move to 0.0 put in the minimal effort required learn how to operate in 0.0 rather than spend far more effort in "howling" for changes.


(1) If the Low/Null dwellers dont want more people in LowSec, why do they keep asking for the reasons to STAY in HighSec to be removed ?



Who is "they"? Most people in low/null simply don't care about hi-sec except as a place to buy stuff. Be careful of making huge generalisations.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#135 - 2013-07-01 08:04:42 UTC
Dorrann wrote:


(4) Every time a thread like this comes up you trot out the same line about nerfing high sec by removing L4 missions, thereby increasing the incentive to enter LowSec..... not once in a while.... pretty much EVERY time.


OK then it should be pretty easy for you to link 2 or 3 examples of me doing that.


"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2013-07-01 08:07:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
Dorrann wrote:
(1) If the Low/Null dwellers dont want more people in LowSec, why do they keep asking for the reasons to STAY in HighSec to be removed ?


Simple. To gank.

PvP is about ganking. High-sec is viewed as weak prey to exploit to gank.

Because EvE now is blob warfare, they don't have as many targets to gank. So they need a fresh and ready supply (or they'll be bored to death).

But CCP can't do that, as it kills the goose that lays the golden egg (new players, as other than alts of nullbears, are but what's up in high-sec). Do you think CONCORD exists for any other reason? CCP even *now* looks at can-flipping dimly. It tolerated it for a long time, but they need new players and will bend the "laws" needed so not to scared 9 out of 10 out of the game!

It's all about balancing. High-sec is needed by everyone, it has a place. But you can't let the average player run the game, as he'll shoot his own foot and destroy the game itself (so wrapped up in his interest to pewpewpew, and not looking at the bigger picture, and what's healthy for the game overall).

The "flaw" in the design is if your interest is industry the game isn't setup well for it. That's why the industrialists are in high-sec in the first place. Low/Null isn't setup to encourage such players to go into those zones, as you're a rifleman first there. If you have three hours a night to play with your "career" do you want to waste it on pewpewpews? No. You stay in high-sec to play your interest.

Now if the game mechanics changed to where industrialist could actually work at their "careers" in low/null, then yes high-sec will move down to low/null. It's all about "can I play my interest?".

When I first started EvE I joined null corps to get down there to play my interest and sadly very disappointed. Because there was little industry to do. Didn't have the Roqual fleets or research centers to ply my trades. Any of that was ad hoc and not enough to justify playing the game even. I quit EvE out of nothing to do but pewpewpews. That isn't why I came into EvE, I want to play what it has that no other MMO has, not play something that every MMO has...pointless waste of money.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#137 - 2013-07-01 08:39:28 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:


The "flaw" in the design is if your interest is industry the game isn't setup well for it. That's why the industrialists are in high-sec in the first place. Low/Null isn't setup to encourage such players to go into those zones, as you're a rifleman first there. If you have three hours a night to play with your "career" do you want to waste it on pewpewpews? No. You stay in high-sec to play your interest.

Now if the game mechanics changed to where industrialist could actually work at their "careers" in low/null, then yes high-sec will move down to low/null. It's all about "can I play my interest?".

When I first started EvE I joined null corps to get down there to play my interest and sadly very disappointed. Because there was little industry to do. Didn't have the Roqual fleets or research centers to ply my trades. Any of that was ad hoc and not enough to justify playing the game even. I quit EvE out of nothing to do but pewpewpews. That isn't why I came into EvE, I want to play what it has that no other MMO has, not play something that every MMO has...pointless waste of money.


This is true and it has been identified as an issue, and I can definitely confirm that it's on the agenda. You may note that conditions for industry in 0.0 have been improved a little in Odyssey (lots more slots and office spaces in 0.0 outposts, improved availablity of low end minerals). But that's only a first step.

Still, I'm glad you've identified the issues as structural/mechanical rather just knee-jerk blaming the players.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2013-07-01 09:51:05 UTC
Majindoom Shi wrote:
So I would like CCP to some how do away with gate camps...
Two 'Reds' entered our pocket so we scrambled and intercepting fleet to cut off their travel. Camped some gates, but they didn't enter the system, we chased after them, but they got away.

Why is this a problem?
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2013-07-01 09:52:56 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
.... They didn't want to make it possible to buy viable PvP hulls for under 10 mill ISK and fly them with less than 1M SP, but when they saw the pictures I had of them, the sheep and the jello tub, well, that argument was soon ended.

(Of course they'll pretend they wanted to do this all along. But now you know the truth.)

Lol
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#140 - 2013-07-01 11:41:16 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Dorrann wrote:


(4) Every time a thread like this comes up you trot out the same line about nerfing high sec by removing L4 missions, thereby increasing the incentive to enter LowSec..... not once in a while.... pretty much EVERY time.


OK then it should be pretty easy for you to link 2 or 3 examples of me doing that.




Take your time. Any time today is fine.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016