These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Get rid of gate camps.

First post
Author
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#101 - 2013-06-29 13:43:03 UTC
So i did some research and found that gatecamps can be beaten!

It seems if u put a cyno on ur ship, and keep anything from 1-5 vindicators and 6 guardians on a bridge, u can kill them all and do evveryone a favour.

Lrn2play
Djana Libra
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#102 - 2013-06-29 13:50:12 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Only way to get rid of gate camps is to do away with the blob warfare, as a way to encourage small gang PvP (which should be the main PvP fare as it encourages having fun with your RL friends).

But the main problem is the cost to PvP is so high. Want more PvP and even attract more PvErs to engage in it here and there, the price for it has to come down. With the inflation in the game (100% ratio in 3 years), that's not going to happen anytime soon.


stop trying to fund anything with lvl 1 missions, it's dirt cheap to pvp, too damn cheap actually. and your inflation is quite off, income rose more than the inflation (anyone remember having to mine a month in a cruiser to make enough to get a battleship)

If the cost is to high your isk making is bad or you fly the wrong ships.
Krazynikomo
Perkone
Caldari State
#103 - 2013-06-29 14:41:19 UTC
OP lost an empty Ibis and a pod with no implants to a gatecamp, and started this thread.
http://zkillboard.com/detail/26316716/
http://zkillboard.com/detail/26316751/

I'd have to lose at least like, a Tengu or something before I'd get this russled.
Adunh Slavy
#104 - 2013-06-29 15:07:59 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

Travel mechanics aren't the issue. People with no idea how they work whining for changes which they don't understand the implications of is.



Says you.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#105 - 2013-06-29 19:31:39 UTC
Gealbhan wrote:
Gate camps are an integral part of EvE Online. Nothing more needs to be said. Arrow


They weren't always and every time I point this out I get a slammed but I'll say this again.

In the early days of Eve there wasn't anything that could survive the gate guns, then ships evolved and now gate guns mostly kill new players that don't understand how they work. Gate guns no longer serve any practical purpose.

So why doesn't CCP evolve the guns or just remove them, because right now they have no useful purpose? CCP thought once combat was supposed to be somewhere other than low sec gates but now doesn't seem to care. CCP recently floated a suggestion to fiddle the guns (which I supported) but the vocal minority (already prepping for rants about that comment) got CCP to back down.

So now I say "CCP, fix the guns or take them out all together!"

Issler
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#106 - 2013-06-29 21:02:58 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Gealbhan wrote:
Gate camps are an integral part of EvE Online. Nothing more needs to be said. Arrow


They weren't always and every time I point this out I get a slammed but I'll say this again.

In the early days of Eve there wasn't anything that could survive the gate guns, then ships evolved and now gate guns mostly kill new players that don't understand how they work. Gate guns no longer serve any practical purpose.

So why doesn't CCP evolve the guns or just remove them, because right now they have no useful purpose? CCP thought once combat was supposed to be somewhere other than low sec gates but now doesn't seem to care. CCP recently floated a suggestion to fiddle the guns (which I supported) but the vocal minority (already prepping for rants about that comment) got CCP to back down.

So now I say "CCP, fix the guns or take them out all together!"

Issler


I remember the "if you can't tank them, gate guns gonna rip you apart" debates. Even back then people were asling for gate guns to be buffed, personally I'm kind of 50/50 on the idea. By how much should they be buffed and how? more damage, faster firing, faster lock and range? Maybe add nos batteries to gates?

idk just throwing random thoughts out.
SmokinDank
Horizon Research Group
#107 - 2013-06-29 21:08:14 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Gealbhan wrote:
Gate camps are an integral part of EvE Online. Nothing more needs to be said. Arrow


They weren't always and every time I point this out I get a slammed but I'll say this again.

In the early days of Eve there wasn't anything that could survive the gate guns, then ships evolved and now gate guns mostly kill new players that don't understand how they work. Gate guns no longer serve any practical purpose.

So why doesn't CCP evolve the guns or just remove them, because right now they have no useful purpose? CCP thought once combat was supposed to be somewhere other than low sec gates but now doesn't seem to care. CCP recently floated a suggestion to fiddle the guns (which I supported) but the vocal minority (already prepping for rants about that comment) got CCP to back down.

So now I say "CCP, fix the guns or take them out all together!"

Issler


In the early days of Eve the sentry guns weren't there. After they were added, they were always able to be tanked. You don't know much about how they used to work it seems.

...

Bruce Kemp
soy bois
No Handlebars.
#108 - 2013-06-29 21:34:42 UTC
This is some of the most funnest **** i have ever heard. Twisted
Alaric Faelen
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#109 - 2013-06-29 22:31:11 UTC
Show me on the doll where the gate campers touched your industrial..........

It's ambush at a chokepoint- sort of a fundamental of warfare. Wouldn't want our war too much like the real thing, would we?

I find camping anything boring as heck. Just not my preferred style, but certainly one I engage in when it's beneficial.
Most everyone I know vastly prefers to roam. But roams are 'meeting engagements' and difficult to control the various factors in. Camping is a force multiplier, allowing small gangs to inflict vast damage, even if only to deny gate travel.

To not use static camps at known chokepoints would be stupid.

That said, I have no use for smartbombing gate camping. That is the height of cowardice to me. At least have the guts to lock a target and take your chances....if there were any camping mechanic I'd address, it would be that.
Beyond that- meh, you deal with gates one at a time. Do your map recon before undocking. Keep up on intel. PLAY the game in other words.
Adunh Slavy
#110 - 2013-06-29 22:51:54 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Show me on the doll where the gate campers touched your industrial..........

It's ambush at a chokepoint- sort of a fundamental of warfare. Wouldn't want our war too much like the real thing, would we?



Realistic warfare? Are you kidding? It's space, the largest expanse imaginable and we have LOL choke points.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#111 - 2013-06-29 23:26:52 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Show me on the doll where the gate campers touched your industrial..........

It's ambush at a chokepoint- sort of a fundamental of warfare. Wouldn't want our war too much like the real thing, would we?



Realistic warfare? Are you kidding? It's space, the largest expanse imaginable and we have LOL choke points.


We have lolchokepoints precisely because it is space. You know, the whole warp gate thing? Otherwise it would all be one big system clogged full of people. The very nature of the session change neccesitates this.

Trying to argue against gatecamps by saying "It's in space"? Not working for you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2013-06-29 23:33:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Verunae Caseti
Adunh Slavy wrote:


Realistic warfare? Are you kidding? It's space, the largest expanse imaginable and we have LOL choke points.


It's a game, mate. Games require limitations to be interesting. Especially multiplayer games in which it is somewhat important for the overall experience that players occasionally bump into one another.

How interesting would chess be on a board sized infinity x infinity?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#113 - 2013-06-29 23:59:10 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Gealbhan wrote:
Gate camps are an integral part of EvE Online. Nothing more needs to be said. Arrow


They weren't always and every time I point this out I get a slammed but I'll say this again.

In the early days of Eve there wasn't anything that could survive the gate guns, then ships evolved and now gate guns mostly kill new players that don't understand how they work. Gate guns no longer serve any practical purpose.

So why doesn't CCP evolve the guns or just remove them, because right now they have no useful purpose? CCP thought once combat was supposed to be somewhere other than low sec gates but now doesn't seem to care. CCP recently floated a suggestion to fiddle the guns (which I supported) but the vocal minority (already prepping for rants about that comment) got CCP to back down.

So now I say "CCP, fix the guns or take them out all together!"

Issler



Gateguns kill interceptors and other frigates pretty fast. If you can't see how this has an effect on camps, I suggest you try being a pirate for a month.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Adunh Slavy
#114 - 2013-06-30 00:09:44 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

We have lolchokepoints precisely because it is space. You know, the whole warp gate thing? Otherwise it would all be one big system clogged full of people. The very nature of the session change neccesitates this.

Trying to argue against gatecamps by saying "It's in space"? Not working for you.



I Call BS. Session changes do not necessitate a jump gate. Programmatically, all a jump gate is, is a GUI element. That is all event driven design requires. It could be a gate or a giant pink pony bouncing across your screen.

The only argument that holds any water is that "it would be too hard to find other people". That however is easily over come with functions that already exist in the game. A few changes to how we interact with them, and there would be as much if not more non-consensual PVP.

Sorry it is too difficult for some of you to imagine any possible alternatives.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Adunh Slavy
#115 - 2013-06-30 00:17:21 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:


How interesting would chess be on a board sized infinity x infinity?


It would be very interesting, because to win, you still have to place the king in check mate. Now you for one moment do a little bit of thinking and imagine a chess board of infinite squares. Just how are you going to defend your king and attack the other? Sure you can go as far away as you want, but you still have to achieve your objectives and defend your king.

There's an old axiom, if it is important enough to defend, then it is important enough to attack.

Think about it instead of falling back on these old canards. Canards that keep Eve in the 90s.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#116 - 2013-06-30 00:22:16 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

We have lolchokepoints precisely because it is space. You know, the whole warp gate thing? Otherwise it would all be one big system clogged full of people. The very nature of the session change neccesitates this.

Trying to argue against gatecamps by saying "It's in space"? Not working for you.



I Call BS. Session changes do not necessitate a jump gate. Programmatically, all a jump gate is, is a GUI element. That is all event driven design requires. It could be a gate or a giant pink pony bouncing across your screen.

The only argument that holds any water is that "it would be too hard to find other people". That however is easily over come with functions that already exist in the game. A few changes to how we interact with them, and there would be as much if not more non-consensual PVP.

Sorry it is too difficult for some of you to imagine any possible alternatives.


Okie dokie, there are possible alternatives, but none of them are viable in any way, shape, or form.

So let's say you had to be at the edge of the system to warp to another one, ok? Well, first of all, how do you define this?

Second, how do you GET THERE?

You can't just warp to a point in space. There has to be something there to warp to, or you would have to have put a bookmark. Because given the distances involved it would take you about 30 years to slowboat there, so it has to be warp.

So unless they are going to populate every grid along the circumference of every system in the damn game (this is impossible, btw), there will still be chokepoints.

What you are saying is quite simply not possible in the game. Sorry that it's too hard to see the flaws in an obviously weak argument. Don't let your mouth write checks your knowledge of the subject can't cash.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Adunh Slavy
#117 - 2013-06-30 00:52:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Okie dokie, there are possible alternatives, but none of them are viable in any way, shape, or form.


Out of all the possibilities, you've examined them all have you? All the infinite possibilities that exist, you've examined them all, right. I get to call BS again.


Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

So let's say you had to be at the edge of the system to warp to another one, ok? Well, first of all, how do you define this?

Second, how do you GET THERE?


Are you so unimaginative that you can't think of 100 possible ways someone could code that into the Eve GUI? LOL. Come on man, you're not that daft, surely. Here let me help, "When user does X, do Y". Ok now add random words to X and Y, and like the preverbal monkey typing Shakespeare, you'll come up with something.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

You can't just warp to a point in space. There has to be something there to warp to, or you would have to have put a bookmark. Because given the distances involved it would take you about 30 years to slowboat there, so it has to be warp.


LOL, man you are so inside the box it is not even funny. Well I did type "LOL" so, sorry, it is funny.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

So unless they are going to populate every grid along the circumference of every system in the damn game (this is impossible, btw), there will still be chokepoints.

What you are saying is quite simply not possible in the game. Sorry that it's too hard to see the flaws in an obviously weak argument. Don't let your mouth write checks your knowledge of the subject can't cash.


Here let me give you a hint ... ever heard of combat probes? Imagine if they were not needed, and instead your directional scanner always gave you a warpable result that was sure to get you closer to the target. It may not get you right on the target, but you're sure to get closer. And as you get closer and as you narrow the focus of the DS, the more accurate the result would be.

Any ideas dawning on you yet? No probably not because all you can come up with is stupid cliches.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#118 - 2013-06-30 01:19:39 UTC
Quote:
Are you so unimaginative that you can't think of 100 possible ways someone could code that into the Eve GUI? LOL. Come on man, you're not that daft, surely. Here let me help, "When user does X, do Y". Ok now add random words to X and Y, and like the preverbal monkey typing Shakespeare, you'll come up with something.


If you think coding a three dimensional movement model works like this, then you are a fool.

And there is no point in trying to convince someone who does not possess the capacity to understand the truth. I apologize for overestimating you thusly.

We're done.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Adunh Slavy
#119 - 2013-06-30 01:30:53 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

If you think coding a three dimensional movement model works like this, then you are a fool.

And there is no point in trying to convince someone who does not possess the capacity to understand the truth. I apologize for overestimating you thusly.

We're done.


ROFL, and you've just proven that you're absolutely clueless. A jump gate in Jita could send a player to any system in Eve, it doesn't care where that system is in relation to the jump gate. If you think it has to, then you're frankly an idiot.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Pewty McPew
EVE Corporation 2357451
#120 - 2013-06-30 02:37:39 UTC
Majindoom Shi wrote:

Maybe add lvl 6 agent to low to draw people into system and engage them at the site. Like i said I don't know how to pull this off but gate camps are boring and lame there needs to be a lot more options for pvp


Syre lets add more missions that require even more shiny faction officer modded pimped out PVE ships for the gankers to eliminate.