Intergalactic Summit

They didn't. The Federation's actions in stone walling the Minmatar in such a way, coupled with a few decades of less-than-stellar treatment, led to tension. But no, it was the fault of those who invaded for escalating things to such heights. As I said, reparations are in order, as are apologies. But we must be willing to apologize for our faults as well in keeping them from their Ray.

What happened was wrong, you are correct. That was not the last option. I am not defending their actions. However, I am defending their right to an apology for our actions. No, our action did not deserve a military incursion, and hopefully this will be addressed in the future and rectified. However, this should not be our reason to simply shun them and treat them as children or lesser people.

They have their culture, we have ours. We did not do the simple thing of treating them with respect during a difficult time and working with them. That's it. That's all. Respect. That's all that was needed. Our lack thereof led to their offense, and to action that really had no business or right to be taken. Embargoes? Sure. Heated condemnation from the Tribes? Why not. Giant guns?...no.

In the end, they were wrong to fire, simple as that. But we too, were wrong to act as we did that led to that event. This same, seemingly benign lapse in cultural understanding is what led to our current situation with the Caldari.

So in your own...rather angry way, you agree with me in that the two need to sit down, at the same time, and talk. It would be nice if we tried to break barriers by acting first however, whether it be an apology or simply just requesting a sit down (which I think all parties can agree on).

I'll agree to disagree then about who goes first. I still feel both should come together at the same time, and that the Federation should act and say 'let's talk.' Apology or not, at least ask them to sit and talk. But at least you're not one screaming for closed borders or an incursion into their space. So, for that, I give you my utmost respect.

Stone walling the Republic? Decades of less-than-stellar treatment? Can you point me at some examples in the news?

The stone walling argument is one I've heard from the more rabid Republicans. From what I've seen in the news, this isn't actually an allegation that's been made by the Republic. Instead, it's Republic-aligned Empyreans who have been complaining that they haven't been kept informed. I've asked this before (and received no satisfactory answer): can you point me at any examples in the news of the Republic alleging that the Federation has been stone walling it or refusing to share information?

No.

Surething.

No offer of a joint investigation.

Fleet members stating that information was denied to the Republic before Midular's transfer.

I'm sure if one did a bit more digging, I could find a lot more. We didn't even offer to accept a few of their own investigators.



When a fleet of dreads pop in and say that they have no news or updates, and have been denied any news or updates, that says something. The Minmatar aren't rabid animals looking for a fight, like so many people seem to think.

If you really think it's as simple as 'oh their feelings are hurt,' then you need to open your eyes.

I assume you're referring to this line:


This is a news piece reporting on the initial RSS subcapital fleet incursion which attempted to extradite Broteau by force. It was turned back by the Federation Navy and left with no shots being fired.

I suppose you could read that as saying "The RSS demanded the Federation Navy stand aside [...], the RSS also complained that few details have been released about the suspect". Yet I suspect the "about whom few details have been released" is a line the reporter put in to underline that details have not been released to the public.

In any case, if you continue to read the news piece, it also mentions continued communications between the Federation and the Republic. Interestingly, it reminds us that the Tribal Council apologized to the Federation for the incursion. The contrasts between that incursion and the later one is instructional.

I think you're reading things into those news items that aren't there. I'm looking for instances where members of the Republic government are stating that they are being stonewalled by the Federation government.

This does not include inferences based on things you would like to see in the news items but don't.

This does not include man-in-the-streets commentary.

This does not include capsuleers complaining that the Federation has not released details publicly.

This does not include officers of the RSS stating that the Federation has not shared information with them.

I know I probably sound needlessly harsh, but with a touchy subject such as this, it's important to concentrate not on inference and speculation, but on facts.

Surely you can distinguish between the Federal government sharing information with the Republic government, and the Federal government making information about an ongoing investigation public.

A bit of a late quote, perhaps, but it echoes my own feelings strongly in the matter... Were there mistakes made by the Federation? Yes, there were. They're hardly perfect. But an attack from a supposedly allied nation? I've made my view on that clear elsewhere. In summary, it's idiocy. As would be the notion of turning aside a long alliance over the affair. You want to know why it's worth keeping it around? Look to your fellow Matari in chains and ask that... Look to the enemies of the Federation, waiting just outside the borders to burn it all down, and ask that. Both have so much to lose, if they're fool enough to let this collapse over an incident of mutual hubris.

Hopefully, though will prevail over impulse. If not, I'll see you on that long, dark road ahead.