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Dev Blog: Exploration Sites Statistics Post Odyssey

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CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#21 - 2013-06-25 14:41:01 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
how and when do you plan to address the price drop for pretty much everything found in these sites ? in your internal priority list, does it come before or after the increased complexity you have planned for the hacking minigame itself or after ?`

do you have any data on people dying in these sites compared to before the new mechanics ? (not paying much attention to local was something i immediately realized on myself)



It's prioritized very highly, in that I am already working on this :) I am currently looking at the income made for each site and we will balance accordingly if we see an issue.


i for one would love to find more jackpot items, i love jackpot items Smile


haha doesn't everyone? :D

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Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-06-25 14:43:52 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
how and when do you plan to address the price drop for pretty much everything found in these sites ? in your internal priority list, does it come before or after the increased complexity you have planned for the hacking minigame itself or after ?`

do you have any data on people dying in these sites compared to before the new mechanics ? (not paying much attention to local was something i immediately realized on myself)



It's prioritized very highly, in that I am already working on this :) I am currently looking at the income made for each site and we will balance accordingly if we see an issue.


Just make sure it is not balanced by increasing the drop rates. That DOES NOT WORK for loot that isn't also dropped elsewhere (like mineral heavy loot for reprocessing). Otherwise you only increase the supply and prices drop further.

You either need to add stuff to the loot tables that is required in high volume and usually dropped elsewhere, or you need to add entirely new stuff that didn't have a market before.
Black Dranzer
#23 - 2013-06-25 14:48:12 UTC
Yeah, see, that's the problem with the whole loot spew thing. If you make it gameable, people are just gonna take the best stuff and leave the crap, and they won't bring a friend because they can just take the best stuff for themselves. And if you make it random, well you might as well just give them a can of random loot instead of making them click space.

Just give people random cans and put loot spew into something that makes sense, like salvaging or something.

Walking in Stations as a Social Hub: Business vs Pleasure in Incarna
Atomic Option
NO Tax FAT Stacks
#24 - 2013-06-25 14:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Atomic Option
I don't find the drop in combat site popularity surprising at all--especially for forsaken hubs where scram frigates made a couple lower-skill ships non-viable. In nullsec it's a pretty big increase in risk if you can't warp out when a neutral jumps into system. Also with the huge war over Fountain right now half of the null residents are too busy with fleets and timers to be doing much PVE.

As for Hacking my corp only has one hacking bonused ship in our WH at the moment. After running our first data site like 7 of us would be waiting for the loot spew when we only needed maybe 3 to get everything. We might move to teams of 3 or something when are able to.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#25 - 2013-06-25 14:48:44 UTC
Concerning jackpots: I found 2 POS battery BPCs on DAY 1.
After that, I spent quite some time searching for more, but did not come up with anything beyond the usual stuff.
Was that just extreme luck or were the drop rates tweaked after a short while? ;-)

What I like about the new Relic Sites is that the prices for T2-Rigs seem to go down.
T2-Rigs are a great number of items that are very rarely used due to prohibitive prices - good change thus.

But the overall income through exploration indeed went down significantly after one or two weeks due to decryptors prices crashing...
Baron Deathicon
Outerspace Vanguard
#26 - 2013-06-25 14:51:09 UTC
Quote:
High-sec at least seems to be on a similar trend, albeit with a much smaller jump in usage but what on earth happened to null-sec Combat Sites? We'd need to gather some more information to find out exactly but clearly people are much less interested in them now.

I spent quite a lot of time doing the new exploration in null-sec and honestly I believe the signature Combat Site have much less chance to spawn than Relic/Data sites. Before the expansion, the rate seemed pretty much equal between Hacking/Archaeology/Combat sites, but now I rarely see any complex anymore. They still spawn, but at least twice less often than they used to be, while getting way more Data/Relic sites. Perhaps that could explain why less Combat Sites are being done globally?

By any chance, can you verify that the spawn rate for signature Combat Sites didn't get nerfed?
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#27 - 2013-06-25 14:52:03 UTC
If the player base has already figured out what cans are worth while and are not collecting the cans that contain garbage, what is the point of having them (other than flavor)? Wouldn't it be more interesting (and fun!) to randomize the contents across a standard can type?

I've also figured out a way around using my mini-tractor beams. I can just open up my cargohold and place the opening right near the can ejection point. I no longer need to collect cans! \o/ I expect to see this improvement in the next patch.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-06-25 14:55:42 UTC
\o/ them gaphs!

interesting to see the can collection graph... the others i could have guessed lol

No Worries
CCP Bayesian
#29 - 2013-06-25 14:57:21 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
What constituted a hacking attempt prior to Odyssey?

What constitutes one now?

Data is pretty but needs more definition.

The 65% failsuccess rate seems to me that you'd be counting two tries at the same can as 2 attempts, whereas before it might have only been one attempt? I can't imagine you counted every cycle of a hacking mod as an attempt in the pre-odyssey data.

EDIT: going back now, i see the top graphs were for completions, not attempts. It makes perfect sense that people are trying a new feature more often. Let's see what the graph looks like long term. :)

EDIT 2: 65% success rate, my bad. Knew what I meant, but labeled it wrong.


There was no such thing as a hacking attempt counter pre-Odyssey so we're only considering what has happened since release in that one graph. Similarly the ratio graphs only are tracks of change since the release of Odyssey.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-06-25 15:03:18 UTC
Hey Folks,

Let's work together to try and dig deeper into the hacking grid mechanics. We can use some grid/graph theory to describe the boards, their properties, and then posit some testing/playing strategies that can get those of us in the know up above that 65% rate!

I have a forum post here where I'm trying to get a language for describing the grids going.
Jhan Niber
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-06-25 15:08:52 UTC
What about figures for WH space? Please don't forget your other 2500 systems.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-06-25 15:10:25 UTC
The only way I can think to correct the market nosedive on exploration materials is to put the loot tables back to where they were pre odyssey and remove the loot spew. Your graphs have concluded that it is ineffective.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#33 - 2013-06-25 15:14:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
CCP Affinity wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
how and when do you plan to address the price drop for pretty much everything found in these sites ? in your internal priority list, does it come before or after the increased complexity you have planned for the hacking minigame itself or after ?`

do you have any data on people dying in these sites compared to before the new mechanics ? (not paying much attention to local was something i immediately realized on myself)



It's prioritized very highly, in that I am already working on this :) I am currently looking at the income made for each site and we will balance accordingly if we see an issue.


i for one would love to find more jackpot items, i love jackpot items Smile


haha doesn't everyone? :D

On a personal basis, yes. On a system basis, no. They need to remain good and rare or they stop being jackpot items.

Marcel Devereux wrote:
If the player base has already figured out what cans are worth while and are not collecting the cans that contain garbage, what is the point of having them (other than flavor)? Wouldn't it be more interesting (and fun!) to randomize the contents across a standard can type?

I've also figured out a way around using my mini-tractor beams. I can just open up my cargohold and place the opening right near the can ejection point. I no longer need to collect cans! \o/ I expect to see this improvement in the next patch.


It's still a minor skill barrier for the players and it's a good thing. It means not bothering to learn it decreases your income and taking the effort to learn the system allows you to reliable increase your income level. And no it wouldn't be more fun to randomize things. The loot drops are already random, so making aquiring the loot random is totally pointless, eliminates the influence of player skill and is extremely frustrating to the player. Little randomness in gambling is good. Replacing all player skill, preparation and strategy with randomness sucks ass.
Deornoth Drake
Vandeo
#34 - 2013-06-25 15:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Deornoth Drake
Hacking is fun ...
but scattering of contents isn't ...
basically I really don't like the scattering at all
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#35 - 2013-06-25 15:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Terrorfrodo
Quote:
(Blue – Parts, Orange – Materials, Red – Data, Green – Equipment, Purple – Scraps)


So is that the order of value from best to worst for all the different sites? I'd somehow thought that in data sites, the data containers would contain the most valuable loot (crazy thought I know), and in relic sites probably the materials or equipment containers.

"parts" definitely sounds much less valuable than "equipment" to me :p

.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#36 - 2013-06-25 15:24:52 UTC
About the market oversupply issue: One way to handle it is to add items, increase the number of things on the loot table. I suggest all skill books and all BPOs currently being sold by NPCs. One provision: The drop rate has to be lower than the current level of buying from NPCs. In other words, even with these added drops players will still be doing some buying from the NPCs. The result is protection from a price crash.

Now for a question to CCP: If more people are out exploring, does that mean fewer are running missions? Has the new exploration feature reduced that ISK faucet by any measurable extent?

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Kai Pirinha
#37 - 2013-06-25 15:26:15 UTC
Just as a general question:
Do you (CCP) consider more people playing "exploration sites" (a.k.a. new mission runner addition) as improvement?

There have always been more mission runner than explorers, because exploring took more effort in the past and mission running was fairly easy and dull.
Your statistics just prove, that more mission runners are also playing these sites. But have they been your target group? What about the explorers? Wasn't this supposed to be an exploration-themed add-on?
Do you think that it is an improvement for the explorers that their challenge (which they purposely chose and pursued, if I may emphasize this part!) has been reduced and been moved closer towards mission running (of which there was plenty already and which the explorers could have done at any given time before)?


If you really consider your statistics as a proof for this success, than I really feel sorry for you and hope that you will investigate it again, because numbers aren't everything. The diversity of this game has been reduced and a small part of this community has been downsized even more while a bigger part of the community got even more stuff to play with.

P.S.
irony: I hope there will be a "mission-themed" addon in the future, that removes mission content from the game and adds mining or industrial content instead xD

Hello World
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-06-25 15:28:55 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Now for a question to CCP: If more people are out exploring, does that mean fewer are running missions? Has the new exploration feature reduced that ISK faucet by any measurable extent?

I don't know about most but I am doing both at the same time, while I am on my way to my mission location I probe scan systems that have sigs in them. I make good money that way.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Sylvia Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#39 - 2013-06-25 15:45:28 UTC
Numbers and graphs are nice. Would really love to see similar statistics for grav sites.
CCP Bayesian
#40 - 2013-06-25 15:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Bayesian
oklem wrote:
I'm sure the frigates added in forsaken hubs accounts for some of the completion drop.


I asked around to try and work out what had gone on before posting this. CCP Fozzie just told me about the nerf as well. It seems reasonable as an answer. :D

I guess I should read the patch notes! Oops

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter