Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You were the one that first spat out " Why aren't you upset that you can't get minerals from wrecks?" I just asked what your proposal for fixing that little "oversight" would be.



What other professions generate named gear?

Is.. "smithing" .. a thing from... WoW?

1) You forgot about Refining V, Refinery Effeciency V, Astrogeology V, Industry V, Mining Barge V, and all of the Specific refining skills IV ranging from 1 to 4x skill training time multiplier. And then if you want to fly an orca for boosting there's another load of skills including level 5 leadership skills and the 8x Industrial command ship skill. Then there's a Rorqual which requires learning cap ship skills with high multipliers and the Industrial Reconfiguration that requires Mass Production V and Advanced Mass Production IV. Not sure what professions these skill requirements pale in comparison too.

2) I guess we should add drones and tanking to the list of skills to add on top of mining skills.

3) So you're counter point is that miners could switch to combat? This is the entire point of me making this thread. Good job getting it.

4) As for now my crusade is against the high volume loot. But it is true that those modules do also undermind harvesting and production.

I would be happy for rats to drop BPCs for the meta 1-4 items instead of the items themselves, with those BPCs being bonused for Invention, with each meta level giving a small increase in success chance or ME quality.

That would turn rat loot into a mineral sink rather than a fountain, and would allow the less desirable & low-meta loot to have some economic value. It would also be a nice little invention buff.

You know, a good chunk of the materials I use for production actually come from reprocessed rat crap, since I just cannot be bothered to mine most of the time. Why do you want me to be unable to generate my own materials less efficiently than I could if I mined?

I think the primary issue surrounding this isn't necessarily the materials you get from missioning/ratting, etc, but the T1 meta level items. The meta T1s dropped are better than what can be manufactured, and are obtained at rates or volumes that in many cases, drop the market prices of the meta T1s well below what it would cost to manufacture the non meta counterpart.

Just an example let's use 425mm autos:
At current min prices and before taxes + fees, they run around 130k to produce with a decent BPO material level and level 5 production efficiency. Note that that figure is at cost and before any profits. (closer to around 150k @ production efficiency 4 and no research)

The meta 3 I believe: 425mm Medium Gallium Machine Gun can currently be purchased in jita at approximately 65k. It is better and less expensive.

Imma go out on a limb and say that there aren't any T1 modules with T1 meta counterparts that can be produced for less than the average market value of its least valued meta module.

Which means there is less game play opportunity for other people who do not care to shoot rats. Why should other players suffer for you?

You shoot asteroids with lasers, get ore, refine ore into minerals, and use those minerals to build stuff. Harvest to production.

You shoot NPCs with lasers, and missiles, slugs of metal, and explosive projectiles as well, get crap, refine crap into
minerals, and use those minerals to build other stuff. Harvest to production.

NPC drops function as a secondary line of harvesting in that regard. Using the drops immediately does bypass the production step, but it's not an either or thing.

As for your issues regarding isk, you've got a perfectly valid point there, but how else would you expect new players to make sufficient isk to have a reasonable gaming experience without unreasonable effort? Increasing the isk for new character missions might help some, but too much and you'll front-load their isk so that they have a lot when they don't really know how to spend it well Associate high isk payments to later one-shot missions might do it as well, but that would require a bit of work on the part of CCP to create dozens of new missions that will only be run once. Of course I suppose a counter to that might be to drop rat bounties and mission payouts by 90% and then have mission rewards/bonuses increased by 200-300% (over the current value) for the first time you do them at that difficulty/agent level.



I get why it would be an issue for an industrialist who wants to raise the relative value of their work effort. I don't get why it's a concern for "hull miners" who would rather "mine" NPCs for their named "ore" drops to make their ships and other gear with.

As for realism, I don't have a problem as long as what players are saying is "realistic" actually is from an in-game perspective and it doesn't cause undue issues with the game. From that perspective making PCs and NPCs function differently when it comes to blowing up their ships doesn't work. Likewise having endless ships thrown at you with no apparent resource gathering doesn't work either. Unfortunately for that CCP can't guarantee any sort of significant NPC presence in the game without cutting realism corners to account for players being smarter and every NPC "thought process" increasing server load while player "thought processes" (and I use the quotation marks intentionally) don't cost CCP a dime.



The thing is that "sandbox" means we do with the environment what we want; it doesn't mean that CCP is beholden to make the environment a certain way. They are not obligated to make NPCs drop usable items, items to make items, or no items at all, and no matter what they do there the game is still a "sandbox game" so long as we can do pretty much whatever we want to with those items.

In fact you can make a case that by removing meta item drops from NPC wrecks, even if you substitute "upgrade" items for them, that you're removing choice from the game and making it less "sandbox" and more "themepark" because your choices for what to do with those items are diminished by one, reprocessing.



They should drop something usable by players. Not even NPCs can go into battle with nothing but BPCs on their ship.



This is EVE Online. You know, pew pew. Seems to me that making others suffer for your enjoyment is part of the gameplay. Why should industrialists be immune to the pain, or even just some aspects of it? Why should only traders and shooters feel it all of EVE's pain in its full glory?

What opportunity are they missing out on exactly? If the choice is between mining the gear myself, or salvaging my own sites, then can you explain what you're talking about?

I think you are assuming that the price of the dropped modules is based upon abundant supply. The funny thing is that CCP could make the drop rate .00000001% and it would not necessarily effect the market price.

If meta 1 mods are "too cheap" it has more to do with the previous nerf to mineral content (the artificial floor price) and the overall lack of people fitting them onto ships. That is why making upgrade tokens will decrease LVL 4 income. The upgrade tokens for anything but meta 4 (and sometimes meta3) will be worth squat since the demand for the actual items stems from the material content or invention.

Generally, tying meta 0 mods into named mods will only increase the demand for meta 0 on a small portion of total game items, since the demand for meta 1-3 (and even meta 4 in many cases) is not heavily driven by people using the item for its intended purpose.

The real "winners" of making this change are those items are those which have high t2 skill costs, items where t2 has worse stats than meta 4, and items which are actually used by large segments the population. In other words meta 4 weapons and a handful of other meta 3-4 modules.