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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Skill-Time for Plex

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Author
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#201 - 2013-06-28 18:48:25 UTC
Pixel Face wrote:
This is how it is done in eve..... [ 5 steps of game mechanics we all know removed as it amounts to nothing more than an veiled insult to the OP]

[second insult in your post also removed]

[third insult removed]

As for CCP, they should not have this feature, as it would undermine the character Bazar and undervalue the effort people have put to train their character.



....and finally after removing all the insults both blatant and veiled we get to the heart of your argument.

I have never purchased a bazaar pilot, am i not being cheated out of the 'effort' i put into my pilot be the bazaar game mechanic since someone else can just buy a 100m SP pilot thus completely invalidating the months i have spent crafting my pilot and tending to my skill queue.

You support the bazaar while arguing against the very thing the bazaar does, namely allowing someone on day one of the game to buy a high SP pilot and make my months of skill queue tending a total joke.

I support the OPs suggestion simply because EVE has already sold out on this point.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#202 - 2013-06-28 19:10:44 UTC
suid0 wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
suid0 wrote:
Player price is decided by supply, demand, usefulness and what people are actually willing to pay.

If you don't like the asking price, offer less, keep looking at other characters... there are loads of options that don't involve screwing up a system that isn't broken.


Given the bazaar system you yourself decided to add to your argument how can you justify the stance that inclusion of a game mechanic almost identical in outcome is going to 'screw up the system"?


The time to learn those skills which exist on a purchased character has been spent the same way everyone elses has... over time. Not via some spend money get instant millions of SP.


Yes, someone skilled up that bazaar pilot but for the buyer the 'spend money get instant millions of SP' option is exactly what it amounts to in the end.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#203 - 2013-06-28 19:17:06 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I see that you're using "trolling" in the modern sense of "disagreeing with me in a way I can't effectively argue against so I'll claim you hurt my feelings".

I feel no obligation whatsoever, either moral or professional, to give bad, self-serving, destructive ideas any respect whatsoever. No doubt you're a perfectly fine person, and I have no doubt I'd be happy to meet you in real life, but a rejection of your bad idea (and it's a terrible horrible bad idea) need not be construed as an attack on you personally. Unless you want it to be, in which case have at it.

I don't want you to feel bad. I am not interested in making you "mad". I just want your proposal to be discredited and rejected.


look at your comments, you basically said "NO", that was your only argument, no content nothing behind it, you just talk without giving any explanation why it is a bad idea


You'll note that I made a second post that explained why.

In short, it's a great deal less effort for someone to spew out a terrible idea than it is to comprehensively explain why it's terrible. Rather than spend hours rehashing exactly the same arguments, it's much more efficient to say "No way, and look at similar threads posted previously on the same topic to see why I'm saying No way".

That's all the response this dreadful proposal deserves.


Better would be for you to forgo posting at all if 'putting effort' into your post is more than you intend to do.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#204 - 2013-06-28 19:27:44 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:


I do not take other games as measurment, as each game has its own logic, in eve more skilltime is needed for the early player, therefore the possibility to purchase more skilltime as an option and again limited maybe between 1-3 month of SP per year would be a good addition to the game, and would not harm anybody

I agree to everybody that the possibility to purchase unlimited skilltime might not be a good idea

You missed the point. Its no harder to train into most specialized ship roles than it was 10 years ago. Its easier now in most cases than it was in the past. There are a few exceptions (black ops, cap ships) but generally theres no need to worry about being 10 years behind because youre not unless you want to be good at everything.

Just like you cant expect to play WoW and be max level max geared in all classes / races quickly you cant expect that in EvE either.


Comparing WOW and EVE is generally not a good idea since the game structures are very different, in this case you claim that I cannot get a lot of WOW toons overnight and in that you are correct (assuming you abide by the EULA) but you are wrong that you cannot do this in EVE the bazaar system is your shortcut from day one pilot to 100m SP pilot in a few hours while you are out watching a movie.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2013-06-28 19:36:39 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
suid0 wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
suid0 wrote:
Player price is decided by supply, demand, usefulness and what people are actually willing to pay.

If you don't like the asking price, offer less, keep looking at other characters... there are loads of options that don't involve screwing up a system that isn't broken.


Given the bazaar system you yourself decided to add to your argument how can you justify the stance that inclusion of a game mechanic almost identical in outcome is going to 'screw up the system"?


The time to learn those skills which exist on a purchased character has been spent the same way everyone elses has... over time. Not via some spend money get instant millions of SP.


Yes, someone skilled up that bazaar pilot but for the buyer the 'spend money get instant millions of SP' option is exactly what it amounts to in the end.

Tell me, how much control do you have over the faction standings that character you are buying off the bazaar? How about security status? Location of Assets? Relationship with major alliances? These are things you are buying with that character. When you buy SP you ignore all these things.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#206 - 2013-06-28 20:10:57 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
suid0 wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
suid0 wrote:
Player price is decided by supply, demand, usefulness and what people are actually willing to pay.

If you don't like the asking price, offer less, keep looking at other characters... there are loads of options that don't involve screwing up a system that isn't broken.


Given the bazaar system you yourself decided to add to your argument how can you justify the stance that inclusion of a game mechanic almost identical in outcome is going to 'screw up the system"?


The time to learn those skills which exist on a purchased character has been spent the same way everyone elses has... over time. Not via some spend money get instant millions of SP.


Yes, someone skilled up that bazaar pilot but for the buyer the 'spend money get instant millions of SP' option is exactly what it amounts to in the end.


No, totally different, you get a character that has been trained over time and happens to have millions of SP... at no point do you ever get an instant pool of SP to allocate however you see fit.

It's only the perception of spending money and getting millions of SP, in reality you spend money and get a character that can do things well due to already having completed the training.

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted

Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#207 - 2013-06-28 20:15:12 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
I have never purchased a bazaar pilot, am i not being cheated out of the 'effort' i put into my pilot be the bazaar game mechanic since someone else can just buy a 100m SP pilot thus completely invalidating the months i have spent crafting my pilot and tending to my skill queue.

No, because if no one was allowed to buy that character, it would still exist, and still have more SP than you. Character trades are a zero-sum affair (excepting the transfer fee). For every player that buys a character with more SP than yours, there's another that loses one. Always. It's not anywhere near the same thing as directly buying SP.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#208 - 2013-06-28 20:38:53 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Manfred Hideous wrote:


You can purchase the time directly in the form of second character training. What you want is a time warp that makes your character as skilled as a 5+ year old character. That's paying to win. Remember when CCP tried the pay to win thing before? It didn't turn out so well.


buying 10yr old pilots off the bazaar is already a 'time warp' and is already fully supported by CCP, also you can buy PLEX instead of farming ISK yourself both clear examples of pay to win by your definition and both already supported by CCP.

The thing the OP wants is yet another 'pay to win' feature added to the game that although new is not a radical departure from what is already being supported in EVE.
None of the those existing mechanics bypass Eve normal game play. Both the character and ISK have to already exist in Eve, for them to be traded. That's the whole point you seem to keep missing. They are simply not the same.

The OP wants to bypass Eve mechanics and render large swaths of them pointless. You may think this is OK, but we'll pass thanks.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Pixel Face
Doomheim
#209 - 2013-06-29 04:12:30 UTC
I see it now its the the alt assault. Anyway. There is no insult in what I said and if you choose to take my comments as insults , be my guest.
I'll address your only point. A well trained 100 sp character sells for at least 40b ( trying to conservative). A new player will not have that much isk unless they buy plex. So we are have a day one player buying atleast 40x GTC to fund a 100m sp character purchase. Chances of that happening - 0. Do the math and you will know that it's around $1400.

And even if it were to happen no one will be cheated since that new player who just bought a 100m sp character would not be able to properly utilise the character capability.

Skill up like everyone else has done/doing/ will do. If you cannot afford to wait then buy a character that has everything that you wAnt to skip.

Last


Knowing a skill does not make someone a good player. How to use that skill effectively makes one.

And no if ccp were to listen to suggestions like this it would not have survived this long.



Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Pixel Face wrote:
This is how it is done in eve..... [ 5 steps of game mechanics we all know removed as it amounts to nothing more than an veiled insult to the OP]

[second insult in your post also removed]

[third insult removed]

As for CCP, they should not have this feature, as it would undermine the character Bazar and undervalue the effort people have put to train their character.



....and finally after removing all the insults both blatant and veiled we get to the heart of your argument.

I have never purchased a bazaar pilot, am i not being cheated out of the 'effort' i put into my pilot be the bazaar game mechanic since someone else can just buy a 100m SP pilot thus completely invalidating the months i have spent crafting my pilot and tending to my skill queue.

You support the bazaar while arguing against the very thing the bazaar does, namely allowing someone on day one of the game to buy a high SP pilot and make my months of skill queue tending a total joke.

I support the OPs suggestion simply because EVE has already sold out on this point.


m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#210 - 2013-06-29 04:37:59 UTC
Just adding my "not only no but hell no" vote to this topic..
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#211 - 2013-06-29 07:20:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
....some rubbish...


o/ Harry


Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
tchulen wrote:

..... this skill progression concept was designed by them, has been working fine for 10 years and has the massive majority of players behind it.



At one time prohibiting women the right to vote in America had the 'massive majority' of people behind it, it was still a bad idea and using the "majority thinks it's a good idea and thus this automatically justifies my viewpoint argument" shows you have no understanding of what it takes to properly support your viewpoints and further it seriously calls into question whether you have the right to belittle the intellectual acumen of any other poster.


Don't be ridiculous. Your simile falls down due to the following:

In your simile a great many women were behind women having the vote. You appear to have very little support for your proposal (and that's assuming the one person who supports you isn't an alt, which seems likely considering the similar writing styles).

EVE isn't reality. It's a computer game.

In your simile women had no vote. That's like, for EVE, saying that you can't gain skill points. You gain them just as fast as I or anyone else does. What you're really saying, if you want to keep your simile correct, is that women should be able to buy more votes. Don't be daft. You want to be the same as us? Great, you already are. You have exactly the same ability to progress as anyone else. What you want is MORE than we have. You want to devalue our game whilst increasing the value of yours. That is completely different. You clearly have no understanding of what it takes to properly support your viewpoints and further it seriously calls into question whether you have the right to be included in this discussion.