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Why does CCP discourage experimentation in EvE Online?
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Ghazu
#101 - 2013-06-23 16:49:15 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Adam Gamel wrote:
Why?


I can make a new character and have him PvPing and killing people in less than 24 hours. Not only can I do this, but I already have. This is how my alt started his life. Before 24 hours were up I had killed 3 people and not lost any ships. Eventually I got cocky and died... twice. I did this to prove a point to someone saying exactly what you are saying.

People like you never get the hang of Eve, even after you have amazing skills and have been playing for years. Change your attitude. Don't spend all your time worrying about what you don't have, and start concentrating on using what you do have. Simple as that.


lol preemptive tears best tears? wrong game for you op.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2013-06-23 18:33:03 UTC
good things come to people who wait ... instant gratification is in CoD thataway ->
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Lugalbandak
Doomheim
#103 - 2013-06-23 18:44:16 UTC
Is the reason i play eve already 7 years cause of the many skills and the long grind so to say..

There are plenty of mmos where you can be lvl 100 and in the "end game" within a half year.


The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back
Sergeant Dashing
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2013-06-23 18:56:53 UTC
+1 for a semi-constructive post on GD

But eve is hard, and it needs to stay that way or it will die like wow is dying now

Also eve isnt dying, retards
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#105 - 2013-06-23 19:05:29 UTC
Adam Gamel wrote:
They're short. The problem is that you're trying to push for far higher levels than you need as a new player. You've fallen in the “all to V” trap — one that leads you nowhere, and very fast. As a new player, you should be looking at getting the most bang for your buck, which generally entails training to III or (occasionally) IV.

They aren't short short is one hour not weeks.

I have not fallen in anything.

If you want to fly at max speed you need navigation 5

If you want to dodge and have as much agility as possible

You need

Spaceship Command 5
Evasive Maneuvering 5

If you want to take full advantage of your frigates bonuses and ever move to a T2 frigate you need

Frigate Skill Level 5

if you want to use your guns to the highest damage potential

You need

Gun Skill 5
Gun Skill Specialization 5

If you want to fire your guns as fast as possible

You need

Gunnery 5
Rapid Firing 5

If you want to get the most out of your Afterburner or Microwarp Drive

You need Acceleration control 5

If you want to handle over heating as best as possible

Thermodynamics 5


So I don't understand how you can say you don't need 5, I mean I get you might not need it to kill somebody but your against players that have been playing for 10 years some of them already have these skills 5 and if you want to compete against them you have to do the same.



If you and friend run into a bear in the woods, you don't need to be the worlds fastest runner, just a faster runner than your friend. So always go to the woods with a fat friend.
MEZZA Creire-Geng
Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
Seventh Sanctum.
#106 - 2013-06-23 19:26:27 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Adam Gamel wrote:
They're short. The problem is that you're trying to push for far higher levels than you need as a new player. You've fallen in the “all to V” trap — one that leads you nowhere, and very fast. As a new player, you should be looking at getting the most bang for your buck, which generally entails training to III or (occasionally) IV.

They aren't short short is one hour not weeks.

I have not fallen in anything.

If you want to fly at max speed you need navigation 5

If you want to dodge and have as much agility as possible

You need

Spaceship Command 5
Evasive Maneuvering 5

If you want to take full advantage of your frigates bonuses and ever move to a T2 frigate you need

Frigate Skill Level 5

if you want to use your guns to the highest damage potential

You need

Gun Skill 5
Gun Skill Specialization 5

If you want to fire your guns as fast as possible

You need

Gunnery 5
Rapid Firing 5

If you want to get the most out of your Afterburner or Microwarp Drive

You need Acceleration control 5

If you want to handle over heating as best as possible

Thermodynamics 5


So I don't understand how you can say you don't need 5, I mean I get you might not need it to kill somebody but your against players that have been playing for 10 years some of them already have these skills 5 and if you want to compete against them you have to do the same.



If you and friend run into a bear in the woods, you don't need to be the worlds fastest runner, just a faster runner than your friend. So always go to the woods with a fat friend.


he makes a good point eve is about picking fights and knowing which you'll win at. you'll get trolled for all kinda pvp actions and from my personal experence pvp is best in tech 1 s**t you dont care too much about against a enemy who feels the same. skill points does make a different, as does skill but there are corps such as brave newbies inc where 70 t1 frigs can kill any SP pimped out battleship.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#107 - 2013-06-23 19:33:01 UTC
You can pvp effectively in any T1 frigate with less than 24 hours of training time. Will you be the penultimate frigmaster? No, but there is nothing stopping you from undocking and trying other than your own mental blocks.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#108 - 2013-06-23 19:59:23 UTC
And good riddance.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#109 - 2013-06-23 23:53:17 UTC
ITT vets try to tell Adam what he's doing wrong and what he's confused on and he chooses to ignore all that and tell them he knows better.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#110 - 2013-06-24 06:21:59 UTC
mandatory, can i have your stuff?
Nycodemis
National Institute of Mental Health
#111 - 2013-06-24 07:27:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nycodemis
TL;DR - Part of experimentation is learning to do what you want with what you have. Not sitting in a Station/POS/Outpost with your thumbs up your butt and daydreaming about the day when you'll have it all. That day won't happen and in the meantime you've wasted time, money and many potential killmails.

Adam Gamel wrote:
Why does CCP discourage experimentation in EvE Online?

I don't understand the point in making skills take YEARS to train it's just not fun not being able to do what you want and just having nothing to do but sit in a station and wait for your skills to get to where you want to be so you can finally do what you want to do.

If you're sitting in a station waiting for skills to train, the problem is not with the game... it's the player. What you described is ignoring other opportunities and not trying to find other ways to do what you want.


Adam Gamel wrote:
For example , a new player wants to PVP...
He/She realizes if he/she wants to do this as quickly as possible he/she is going to need to do so in a frigate first...
What frigate to choose? There are many and this game does a poor job preparing new players to play.
It all relies on other players and unofficial information and guides most of which aren't willing to assist new players but rather take advantage of them.
Already the player is overwhelmed and assaulted.
Most people wouldn't accept this level of bull.

Stop... you just contradicted your first sentence. With all of the options available you could go out and *gasp* experiment. In one sentence you say CCP discourages experimentation. A few lines down you want CCP to spoon feed every detail and explain how things should be used.

Also, if most people weren't willing to help new players, there wouldn't be nearly as much information or as many guides... that your statement shows you know is available. Some of the more well-known alliances specifically cater to newer players.


Adam Gamel wrote:
Say this player decides to keep at it anyway.

Now the player has to wait...

and wait...

and wait...

and this is for a frigate... The player can only imagine a Battleship or a T3 Strategic Cruiser.

I guess my question is why does CCP keep the training times for basic skills needed to even attempt PVP or anything really at a decent level extremely hard to reach?

As new players they are "NEW" meaning they don't understand a lot of the games concepts and mechanics so why punish them with ridiculous training times while they experiment and learn how to play?

Why not make the skills needed for the frigates much more accessible and reasonable?
Instead of 9 days, why not back to the old 4 days? or hell 2 days would be even better? Or even less would be fantastic.

What is the purpose in not allowing the new players to really explore every thing New Eden has to offer at least at frigate level in a quick accessible fashion and once they've decided hey well I want to specialize in Exploration or Mining or whatever they choose then make the larger ships more difficult to obtain?

As it is right now...

it's backwards...

It takes longer to take full advantage of a Frigate and once you can you move to bigger ships quickly.

Instead of being able to take full advantage of a frigate quickly and then moving to the bigger ships in a slower fashion.

In order to take full advantage of a frigate you have to train a bunch of skills.

You need a bunch of different cap skills...
Gun Skills...
Navigation skills...
Thermodynamics...
+ Many More...

These take time to train and should be level 5 before moving to a bigger ship as when you move to the bigger ships these little differences in percentages translate to large differences.

Are you nuts? People don't actually wait until all of that is at lvl 5 before engaging in PvP. Yes, skills help in PvP, but you can point someone in a rookie ship with a scram on day one. Are you going to die? Probably. Are you going to get kills solo in a noob ship? Doubtful, though even a noob ship is more effective than station sitting and having no initiative. It's a game. If you can't undock and try to have fun with out perfect skills then there are many other games available... and please leave quickly. What you've described is the last thing we need wasting processing time on TQ.

This is not my main. My main has ~84mil SP... and still doesn't have L5 in everything you suggested. In many things, yes. Hell, I just trained for T2 MWD last month. Sad, I know, but it wasn't necessary. I've had 100% efficiency for about the past 1600 days. Choosing your fights, friends and tactics wisely will serve you better than anything in the skill tree.

Happy Hunting and Pod Speed.
Yummy Chocolate
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#112 - 2013-06-24 07:37:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Yummy Chocolate
tl;dr version:

Training Skills, Please Wait...

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>9,001 d remaining...

Alternatively: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZp02ON-sTI

Frostys Virpio > CCP: Continously Crying Playerbase

Felicity Love >... was thinking "moar popcorn"... but now, seeing the truly awesome contribution this thread is going to make to the Greater Glory Of EVE.... imagonnamakkadapizza....
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#113 - 2013-06-24 08:33:27 UTC
Specialisation is the key to eve and remember you have 3 alt slots.

Roll chars for specific purposes like hauling or missioning etc in regards to their attributes.

No ones forcing you to do everything on one char, that does take significantly longer.

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