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Post Odyssey evaluation - Who is the king of PVE?

First post
Author
Gefen Orion
Icebox Industries
#1 - 2013-06-22 12:39:35 UTC
LEVEL 4 MISSIONS

Per 20 min / isk tick = best ship?
Mission blitzing for LP rewards = best ship?

ANOMALIES

Hubs = best ship?
Havens = best ship?
Sanctums = best ship?

MINERS

ice mining?
belt mining?
gas harvesting?

Which of the three is the most profitable post-patch?




SaurianX
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-06-22 14:35:29 UTC
Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.

1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.

It's pretty damn fast.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#3 - 2013-06-22 15:43:35 UTC  |  Edited by: John Ratcliffe
SaurianX wrote:
Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.

1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.

It's pretty damn fast.


The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Lady Meegeren
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-06-22 15:48:33 UTC
thanatos (15 bouncers)
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#5 - 2013-06-22 17:15:41 UTC
Lady Meegeren wrote:
thanatos (15 bouncers)


You can't use a Thanatos in High Sec...

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-06-22 17:28:11 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Lady Meegeren wrote:
thanatos (15 bouncers)


You can't use a Thanatos in High Sec...



he's also asking about havens, hubs and sanctums. as well...op is not only in empire (or is looking to at least move up to null bear and kill real people from time to time lol).




If so op...what space are you looking at. For anoms your "best" ship will vary. I know peeps who made good isk naga ratting in certain serpentis anoms. Little to no frigate spawns, jsut sweat the cruisers a bit then it was smack the crap out of the BS'. Some anoms don't need 1 billion in hardware to run basically if cost of ship is something you factor into profit.

YOu also left out FW op. Where based on the whining...a warp stabbed frigate farms lp apparently too well for some lol.








SaurianX
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-06-22 18:20:43 UTC  |  Edited by: SaurianX
John Ratcliffe wrote:
SaurianX wrote:
Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.

1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.

It's pretty damn fast.


The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper.


An 1100 DPS RNI that does 562m/s with 125km range, and costs less than a Machariel? Show me please, i'm genuinely interested.

Although i'm not a fan of the waiting period between firing missiles and them reaching their target. I also don't remember doing much insta-popping of annoying frigates with missiles, which the Machariel does very well. In fact, in my own personal experience it seemed that huge amounts of torp/cruise DPS disappeared when attacking anything smaller than a BC, which can be very irritating in lvl4s.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#8 - 2013-06-22 18:43:49 UTC  |  Edited by: John Ratcliffe
SaurianX wrote:


An 1100 DPS RNI that does 562m/s with 125km range, and costs less than a Machariel? Show me please, i'm genuinely interested.

Although i'm not a fan of the waiting period between firing missiles and them reaching their target. I also don't remember doing much insta-popping of annoying frigates with missiles, which the Machariel does very well. In fact, in my own personal experience it seemed that huge amounts of torp/cruise DPS disappeared when attacking anything smaller than a BC, which can be very irritating in lvl4s.


Not sure if genuine, but if so, then don't forget the Explosive Radius Reduction buff the RNI got this patch - 25% reduction with Lvl 5 skills. Add this to the CM base damage increase and PVE is a joke now. Cruisers and BCs get 1 shot just about every time. BSs get 2-3 shot. Change to Precision for Frigates and 2 shot is very common.

The optimal fit IMHO is:

CN BCU
CN BCU
CN BCU
CN BCU or T2 BCU
DC II or DDA II

Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Mission Specific Resist
Mission Specific Resist
Republic Fleet TP
Republic Fleet TP
Gist A-Type 100MN AB
Imperial Navy Heavy Cap Booster

CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II

T2 Flare
T2 Rigor
T2 Rigor

Use T2 Fury & Precision.

Don't forget to tailor 5% implants to CMs and general missile skills.

The RNI has gone up in price by 200-250 Mil ISK since the patch, but it's still cheaper than the Mach.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Clara Valentine
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-06-22 18:50:24 UTC
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Co-Processor II

Gist A-Type 100MN Afterburner
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Target Painter II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


1225 Dps at 60k (Drones)
1066 at 150k (Pure Missile)
465 ms
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#10 - 2013-06-22 18:53:32 UTC
Clara Valentine wrote:
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Co-Processor II

Gist A-Type 100MN Afterburner
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Target Painter II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


1225 Dps at 60k (Drones)
1066 at 150k (Pure Missile)
465 ms


Overtanked. You don't need a Shield Amp. The Co-Processor is taking a slot that could either be used for a DDA or a DC. The Sensor Booster would only ever get used for Worlds Collide.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

SaurianX
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-06-22 19:26:06 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
SaurianX wrote:


An 1100 DPS RNI that does 562m/s with 125km range, and costs less than a Machariel? Show me please, i'm genuinely interested.

Although i'm not a fan of the waiting period between firing missiles and them reaching their target. I also don't remember doing much insta-popping of annoying frigates with missiles, which the Machariel does very well. In fact, in my own personal experience it seemed that huge amounts of torp/cruise DPS disappeared when attacking anything smaller than a BC, which can be very irritating in lvl4s.


Not sure if genuine, but if so, then don't forget the Explosive Radius Reduction buff the RNI got this patch - 25% reduction with Lvl 5 skills. Add this to the CM base damage increase and PVE is a joke now. Cruisers and BCs get 1 shot just about every time. BSs get 2-3 shot. Change to Precision for Frigates and 2 shot is very common.

The optimal fit IMHO is:

CN BCU
CN BCU
CN BCU
CN BCU or T2 BCU
DC II or DDA II

Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Mission Specific Resist
Mission Specific Resist
Republic Fleet TP
Republic Fleet TP
Gist A-Type 100MN AB
Imperial Navy Heavy Cap Booster

CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II
CM Launcher II

T2 Flare
T2 Rigor
T2 Rigor

Use T2 Fury & Precision.

Don't forget to tailor 5% implants to CMs and general missile skills.

The RNI has gone up in price by 200-250 Mil ISK since the patch, but it's still cheaper than the Mach.


This ship/fit is worth around 2bil, my Machariel is worth about 2.15bil (600mil of which is an unnecessarily powerful X-type repairer) That's nothing really when it comes to lvl4 ships, and i'd take autocannons over missiles anyday for that small price.
Also, if you're counting all lvl5 skills + T2 ammo, then my Machariel would be 1343 DPS.
An upgrade from my Domination 100mn AB to the Gist A-type would equal 616m/s to the RNI's 465m/s.

Still though, I should mention it's been at least 18 months since I last flew a RNI. I dunno if missiles have been buffed much in that time? But in my own personal experience, the Mach just did everything quicker and cleaner.


Dyphorus
Inritus Astrum
#12 - 2013-06-22 19:55:51 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
SaurianX wrote:
Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.

1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.

It's pretty damn fast.


The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper.



Applied DPS, even considering you're in falloff most of the time, is still better on the Mach. Stats on paper are one thing, actual performance is another. Both are solid. Anyone who's used both tends to lean towards the Mach as the better of the two. Although some missions that put you at extreme range to rats may favor the RNI.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-06-23 04:52:08 UTC
Dyphorus wrote:
John Ratcliffe wrote:
SaurianX wrote:
Well, for lvl4's I still run with my Machariel.

1100 Dps - Cap stable, 63 km falloff, capable of 562m/s with AB on.

It's pretty damn fast.


The RNI goes that fast, has the same DPS, has almost twice the range and is cheaper.



Applied DPS, even considering you're in falloff most of the time, is still better on the Mach. Stats on paper are one thing, actual performance is another. Both are solid. Anyone who's used both tends to lean towards the Mach as the better of the two. Although some missions that put you at extreme range to rats may favor the RNI.


CNR applied dmg got worse than before, and applied dmg has always been the problem. Cruise missiles got a nerf in exp radius and exp velocity. You need BS 4 to just counter the 20% exp radius nerf, and there's nothing for exp velocity.

AC's 10% falloff nerf is really just half as much as cruise's 20% exp radius and velocity nerf. Besides, the nature of falloff curve is such that, at 50% falloff, you're still doing 80% dps, at 100%, 50% dps. Dps loss at typical ranges are minimal.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#14 - 2013-06-23 05:22:22 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
Overtanked. You don't need a Shield Amp. The Co-Processor is taking a slot that could either be used for a DDA or a DC. The Sensor Booster would only ever get used for Worlds Collide.


sebo with scan res is useful anywhere. and a few more missions where you want over 93km targeting range (CNR with max skills). Worlds collide as you said plus The Assault, the score, and pirate invasion (especially since npcs can spawn in structures and bounce even further away). then again at that range it might just be better to micro jump drive and brawl it out, especially considering that is way out of target painter range, and/or I wouldn't want to burn all the way out in a mach either.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#15 - 2013-06-23 10:00:55 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
CNR applied dmg got worse than before, and applied dmg has always been the problem. Cruise missiles got a nerf in exp radius and exp velocity. You need BS 4 to just counter the 20% exp radius nerf, and there's nothing for exp velocity.


Err...no. RNI (use the proper name) applied DPS has improved. Read the patch notes. The RNI now makes PVE a joke.


Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#16 - 2013-06-23 10:02:55 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
sebo with scan res is useful anywhere. and a few more missions where you want over 93km targeting range (CNR with max skills). Worlds collide as you said plus The Assault, the score, and pirate invasion (especially since npcs can spawn in structures and bounce even further away). then again at that range it might just be better to micro jump drive and brawl it out, especially considering that is way out of target painter range, and/or I wouldn't want to burn all the way out in a mach either.


It's one of those issues that falls under personal preference. I'd rather just use a 2nd TP for almost every mission. I have a Gist DS AB and with my 7 link fleet booster my RNI does well over 500m/s, so it takes no time to burn towards those >103KM NPCs.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Whitehound
#17 - 2013-06-23 14:03:24 UTC
I am the king of PvE.

You thought it was a ship??

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Anti-social Tendencies
Society for Miner Education
#18 - 2013-06-23 17:05:09 UTC
While you guys are arguing about the CNR (or RNI now I guess), can you give yours thoughts on the Navy Scorpion? I really like it for PvE particularly if you have a pair of them. We use them for running wh sites.

So how does the Navy Raven compare with the Navy Scorpion for level 4 missions? My ships aren't going to be as shiney nor will I be using expensive implants.

"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE

Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#19 - 2013-06-23 17:37:48 UTC
running lvl 4 missions is so last 10 years :). Incursion is where it's at. You can finish a site within 15ish mins and get 30 mil+ lp for it. For that the king is the vindicator, nightmare(tachs), machariel (with 1400s), and the 2 shield logis are the ships you need to be able to fly to get a spot in the fleet. Voila, win.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#20 - 2013-06-23 18:31:40 UTC
Anti-social Tendencies wrote:
While you guys are arguing about the CNR (or RNI now I guess), can you give yours thoughts on the Navy Scorpion? I really like it for PvE particularly if you have a pair of them. We use them for running wh sites.

So how does the Navy Raven compare with the Navy Scorpion for level 4 missions? My ships aren't going to be as shiney nor will I be using expensive implants.



I have an SNI as well and it's great. It has a higher RoF than the RNI, but slightly less applied DPS because it's not got the 25% Explosive Radius Reduction bonus that the RNI gets. Better tank though. If I had to make a suggestion, I'd say fly the SNI if your missile and support skills are middle of the road (Lvl 3 and no lower), and the RNI if those skills are Lvl 4 -5. The SNI is far more forgiving. Either way, don't scrimp on the cash when it comes to fitting - Faction BCUs and a nice DS Booster are order of the day.

Whichever you use, both need 2 x Republic Fleet TPs, 2 x T2 Rigor and 1 x T2 Flare IMHO.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

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