Intergalactic Summit

I defer to your expertise in complete impotence and irrelevance.

Good to know SYNE still has trouble getting it up outside of a slanging match, and even then it's a half mast showing.

There was no one left to interview, because they were all machines by then. They needed to be purged, because a True Slave cannot have their humanity restored once implanted, and an example needed to be made.

What is a shame is that some managed to survive.

Yes, MASS exodus. I'm pretty sure having everyone other than your mindless drones and a handful of loyal followers flee fits the description.

Thoroughly overwhelming? I think you radically overestimate the Empires and underestimate the Nation. It wasn't the easy task you so imagine, it was a brutal and costly war. And also, provide the data on Esoteria please, because your description is wholly inconsistent with how actual events transpired.

And it stands to reason that they wouldn't flee because of the Empires, because if they we're that afraid of them, then they'd stay put, in the false belief that the Empires would kill them if they tried to return. (They didn't)

Entering into debate and discussion on a topic, gives the illusion that the other side is a) capable of changing their mind. b) has any amount of worth to their point and c) is of any more worth in speaking with then a personal data assistant that will not comply with orders.

This is especially true for an opponent that not only refuses to accept evidence, refuses to listen to first hand testimony and has the nerve to demand that you submit evidence to prove your point, offering none in return regardless of how they're pressed.

Nationites should be dealt with by ignoring their mewling, pushing back their incursions and finally; wiping every last whining piece of disgusting scrap from the face of existence and using their rotten, shrapnel ridden corpses to do something of worth.

Capsuleers are proving to be highly efficient at this, to the point that Nation militias are farmed for resources. Similar to a particularly stupid, violent and hard shelled breed of cattle.

Ironically, a thread started to avoid derailing another seems itself to have become derailed by the same arguments and threats which seem to dominate any debate on irreconcilable ideologies.

Let us for a moment return to the OP presuming that Ms. Polevhia's attempt to encourage discussion were genuine and not merely some kind of vanity project.


Were it the complete truth, I imagine that many people might agree that it was 'wrong'. However, there are a few relevant details that you failed to make note of either with deliberate intent or out of ignorance.

The first is your concept of CONCORD's jurisdiction. In summary, CONCORD's mandate is the protection of humanity in the age of the transhuman. This mandate is not dictated to by limited territorial or regional jurisdiction. If there is a 'jurisdiction' at all then it covers the entire cluster.

Sansha Kuvakei was deemed to be conducting unethical research and preparing a military force, both of which were assessed as threats to the entire cluster. Whether this assessment was 'right' or 'wrong' is not for me to judge. There is certainly grey on both sides of the debate.

What's not grey was CONCORD's mandated right to intervene once that assessment was made.

Your second oversight is the assertion that 'all four nations banded together with genocide on their mind'. What you imply is that this decision was the first and only position, that it was a knee-jerk, ill-considered reaction that inevitably had an enormous human cost.

You completely ignore the extensive diplomatic efforts made by CONCORD and the empires to avoid any conflict. Despite these efforts, Kuvakei's ego and hubris was a key roadblock in achieving that peaceful resolution. He would not consider negotiating alternatives. He would not consider surrendering the technology he had developed. The realisation of his vision was all that mattered - not the lives of those who followed him, not the lives of those who rejected his vision. Humanity, by and large, did not concern Kuvakei. Megalomaniac that he was there could be no other dream but his own and he was content to let the entire cluster burn to prove it.

Subsequently CONCORD and the Empires declared war on Nation. Their unified intent was not genocide. It was the same goal as any war - to dismantle Nation's military-industrial capacity and destroy its leadership backbone with the intent of ending the clear and present danger it presented to humanity throughout the cluster.

Rather than plaintively wondering whether others see the YC37 response to Nation as 'wrong' the real questions you might ask include 'Is it wrong for a leader to put his own desires ahead of the safety and wellbeing of his people?', 'Is it wrong to pursue war with a dangerous, militarised dictator when all attempts at diplomacy have been refused?' and 'Is Unity, when being practised by those other than Nation, wrong?'.


This is your argument? That because actions have been tolerated before we should continue to tolerate them down the course of history?

Let us discuss history then.

By and by, at points where humanity has encountered a force seeking to shackle it forcefully to the will of another there has been rebellion against this. Whether such actions were successful or not, whether they occurred immediately or after generations of oppression, whether they were supported by those in power or not is inconsequential. What is of consequence is the simple observation that under conditions of oppression or the threat of oppression those parts of humanity that aspire to self-determination will attempt to rise.

Your position presumes that prior to YC37 this did not happen, that all attempts by 'religious zealots ... a thousand times over' to suppress others were not opposed or even criticised with anything more than a 'diplomatic sigh'. Your position is, quite simply, out of sync with reality and reveals a clear lack of depth in your understanding of human nature.

This is key to why you are not able to understand the cluster's general disdain for Kuvakei's vision and may explain why you struggle so much with how you are regarded publically.

Seriphyn was right and far more succinct than I - for most of us, it's black and white. We reject your position that Kuvakei's vision is the only way forward for humanity. We actively seek out alternatives. And in doing so, we cast aside the yoke he wants us all to wear.


To turn the question around, what are Nation's goals? How do they differ from other transhumanist agendas which do not demand implant-assured subservience?

More relevant to you as a Nation-loyal capsuleer operating outside of Nation proper:

What are your goals? What are TSF's goals? How do they further Nation's agenda? And how does sitting in Placid making ISK off planetary infrastructure production lines, trading through CONCORD's SCC-regulated markets and otherwise spending your spare time ganking miners, agent operatives and the occasional hardened faction war pilot assist you in pursuing them?

In essence, what makes you and yours notably different to any other band of pirates sitting off a station, on a gate, in a belt or in a plex while plying their trade?

Tiberious, has all that 'for Nation' action in Placid really left your ability to recognise a rhetorical question so defunct? I remember a time when you at least made an attempt at rational and reasonable discourse.

How many billions make up a "handful", again? Where do you get your information? That old, biased GalNet article with its bombastic claims based on zero data?

I have never disputed that the war was brutal. In fact, "brutal" doesn't even begin to describe any conflict that leaves three regions of space a glowing ruin. It most definitely was one-sided, though. Oh, I don't dispute that there were casualties on the sides of the Empires, too. But the Empires were never on the strategic and probably not even operational defensive throughout the campaign, and they most definitely did have overwhelming force on their side. You don't need to look any farther than the simple mathematics of war to realize that. Very simply put, unless you have overwhelming force on your side - or the defensive force utterly refuses to fight you - you don't get to raze an entire empire spanning three regions of space in that short a time. What you'll get is something like the Federation-State War - the real one, that is, not the play-war they have going now.

As for the information about Esoteria still being largely inhabited until it was brutally sacked during the war, any standard space chart should be able to tell you as much when looking up the region.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about the idea that those who fled did so because they were afraid that if they stayed, the Empires would destroy them along with the rest of the Nation, while if they returned back to their places of origin - and where else would most of them go? - before hostilities actually did break out, they would at least have a real chance of survival. Especially since that is exactly how history turned out.

This statement is true.

Equally true is that such accusations may themselves be in error or at least assertions without basis in fact.

Would you like to continue the semi-random potshots or address the intentions of Ms. Polevhia's thread from a Nation-loyallist's perspective now, Tiberious? Just to be clear, that one wasn't rhetorical.

A pity, as I so enjoy your own rhetoric and opinion in these discussions. Nevertheless, I can understand your decision and I'm sure I'll be amongst the first to congratulate you should you succeed in your chosen goals here.

This is quite true.

Doesn't mean it can't be entertaining watching them dance. There's a delicious irony in the fact that a thread that they started in the interest of defending themselves has done more damage to them than all their other irrelevant commentary of late. Really, Thessalonia? You're reduced to ad hominem and claiming that it isn't your place to reply?

Carry on, toasters. You're brightening my day nicely.