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Do Level 4 missions pay too much compared to 1 through 3?

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Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#1201 - 2013-09-09 14:01:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
baltec1 wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
They are taking as much risk as the high secs. Local enables you to function in null with the same level of risk.


So people in high sec dock up their pve boats every time there neutrals in local?


No because it would be a waste of time to do. Theres too many people in the mission hubs. In nullsec you can belt rat in empty systems and make 1 mil per kill. A neutral in null is a lot different than a neutral in high sec. One has meaning and can be viewed as a threat. In high sec not so much.


Right so there is more risk in null.


Nope. There isn't. You watch local and in null you can comfortably operate under the protocol of "if a non allied member is in local chat, dock up philosphy."

In hisec to do so would mean never undocking.

It's why afk cloaking is such a complaint for null sec alliances while in hgh sec its non existent. Wars would be the only exception. But i'm the lead voice in removing local chats compulsory use from all of EVE. Not just null and low.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1202 - 2013-09-09 14:03:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Thanks for being honest. Most people don’t want to acknowledge or have attention drawn to the income from moons as compared to mission running.
You mean that income source that is much much smaller than mission running?

You promised an explanation of how it breaks the game and missions do not. Where is it?

Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Nope. There isn't. You watch local and in null you can comfortably operate under the protocol of "if a non allied member is in local chat, dock up philosphy."

In hisec to do so would mean never undocking.
…and yet highsec people undock without a care in the world, which rather shows that such safety protocols are not needed. So could you explain how not having to adopt a safety protocol means there is more risk than in areas where you do have to do that?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1203 - 2013-09-09 14:05:00 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Perhaps the way to go would be to remove LP from high sec missions. It would end the blitzing, the bad pilots wouldnt see any change in their ticks and low sec would get a nice buff without injecting any more isk into the system. Null would also become a more viable place to be.


Hisec LP stores are a ISK sink, are you sure you want to get rid of it? Because what will NOT happen, is people suddenly saying "oh, I NEED those LP, I'm so much going to fly my high end mission runner ship to low and get them where they are".

Not. People will look at the skyrocketing price of LP stuff as supply is decimated, then they will search for a better ISK source to pay the higher price (say, Incursions) and you'll have Incursion farming 23.5/7 as inflation breaks through the ceiling once more ISK enter the system and less ISK leave it.

Hiseccing 101: It's the risk, stupid!


Well we would have to be nerfing high sec incursions more anyway. These things should never have been put into high sec.


(A hiseccer returns to game after a year. Some months ago, the nerf bat hit high security space according to everyone but hiseccer's desires, and now the once thriving hisec is empty, deserted. Markets are crashing under hyperinflation and PCU is at a record low. Startled, the comebacker undocks and sees an advertisement container righ outside of the station:

"Star Citizen is that way --> So long, and thanks for all the ISK!" Lol)

Nerfing hisec haves a net positive effect of nerfing PCU rather than anything else...


Oh look another "if you nerf highsec I will quit the game" post. Please do, making EVE a good product by balancing risk:reward among other things, combined with advertising will attract more than enough people to replace entitled highsec pubbies.


In case that you didn't noticed, most people who buys brands barely ressembles what the brand advertises. Meme: "Your customers and your cast are not the same people."

Or, put in other words, you buy Victoria's Secret to feel like an Angel, not because only Angels are allowed to wear VS.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1204 - 2013-09-09 14:05:40 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
They are taking as much risk as the high secs. Local enables you to function in null with the same level of risk.


That's rubbish and you know it. Unless you think CONCORD has exactly zero deterrent value.

Do you?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lady Areola Fappington
#1205 - 2013-09-09 14:06:20 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
They are taking as much risk as the high secs. Local enables you to function in null with the same level of risk.


So people in high sec dock up their pve boats every time there neutrals in local?


No because it would be a waste of time to do. Theres too many people in the mission hubs. In nullsec you can belt rat in empty systems and make 1 mil per kill. A neutral in null is a lot different than a neutral in high sec. One has meaning and can be viewed as a threat. In high sec not so much.


Right so there is more risk in null.


Nope. There isn't. You watch local and in null you can comfortably operate under the protocol of "if a non allied member is in local chat, dock up philosphy."

In hisec to do so would mean never undocking.

It's why afk cloaking is such a complaint for null sec alliances while in hgh sec its non existent. Wars would be the only exception. But i'm the lead voice in removing local chats compulsory use from all of EVE. Not just null and low.



Wait, so using appropriate risk management in areas of high risk makes an area less risky?

Also, take the magic unstoppable spacepolice away in highsec, you'll get the exact same behaviour. CONCORD makes highsec less risky. Full stop.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1206 - 2013-09-09 14:06:25 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


Thanks for being honest. Most people don’t want to acknowledge or have attention drawn to the income from moons as compared to mission running.

They allow their blind hate for hi-sec to overrule any common sense.

Also thanks for taking the time to point out tippia’s flip flopping. I have zero respect for people that argue on the forums all day just for something to do.


Even the best moon makes less than miners do an hour.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1207 - 2013-09-09 14:06:48 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


In case that you didn't noticed, most people who buys brands barely ressembles what the brand advertises. Meme: "Your customers and your cast are not the same people."

Or, put in other words, you buy Victoria's Secret to feel like an Angel, not because only Angels are allowed to wear VS.


That has nothing to do with buying a good product versus a bad product, try again.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1208 - 2013-09-09 14:08:05 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
They are taking as much risk as the high secs. Local enables you to function in null with the same level of risk.


So people in high sec dock up their pve boats every time there neutrals in local?


No because it would be a waste of time to do. Theres too many people in the mission hubs. In nullsec you can belt rat in empty systems and make 1 mil per kill. A neutral in null is a lot different than a neutral in high sec. One has meaning and can be viewed as a threat. In high sec not so much.


Right so there is more risk in null.


Nope. There isn't. You watch local and in null you can comfortably operate under the protocol of "if a non allied member is in local chat, dock up philosphy."

In hisec to do so would mean never undocking.

It's why afk cloaking is such a complaint for null sec alliances while in hgh sec its non existent. Wars would be the only exception. But i'm the lead voice in removing local chats compulsory use from all of EVE. Not just null and low.


So what you're saying is that 0.0 is "risk free" as long as you never undock?

Well at last we agree on something Roll

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1209 - 2013-09-09 14:08:44 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


In case that you didn't noticed, most people who buys brands barely ressembles what the brand advertises. Meme: "Your customers and your cast are not the same people."

Or, put in other words, you buy Victoria's Secret to feel like an Angel, not because only Angels are allowed to wear VS.


That has nothing to do with buying a good product versus a bad product, try again.


If CCP had to depend upon EVE being a "good product", they would run in trouble quite soon. Being "the right" product is worth x100 of being "a good product". Blink

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#1210 - 2013-09-09 14:11:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Malcanis wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
They are taking as much risk as the high secs. Local enables you to function in null with the same level of risk.


That's rubbish and you know it. Unless you think CONCORD has exactly zero deterrent value.

Do you?


Concords deterrent factor is directly related to the value of the ship your flying. And in high sec where your alliance doesn't control space as many as 2000 non allied people can be in your system. 0-1999 could theoretically be planning your demise. You either stay docked up or play with the risk.

In nullsec avoiding the danger is as simple as checking local. If a target is there that isn't allied you can dock/safe up and avoid the risk. Awoxing doesn't need be considered as that can happen in highsec as well.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1211 - 2013-09-09 14:13:45 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
La Nariz wrote:


That has nothing to do with buying a good product versus a bad product, try again.


If CCP had to depend upon EVE being a "good product", they would run in trouble quite soon. Being "the right" product is worth x100 of being "a good product". Blink


You're kidding me right? There are plenty of average products that do okay. Please though in the spirit of this thread show me your peer reviewed scientific double-blind quantramillion-controlled study showing that entitled highsec pubbies cannot possibly be replaced by new players. Also cite another study showing that they are integral to game design and that all games without them will die.

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Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#1212 - 2013-09-09 14:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
i'll go with after 10 years of being around you cap out at roughly 35k playing at any given time. Many of which are alts. Players that stick around are not anywhere near the level you imply they are. Dedicated EVE players are not easily replaceable. If that needs proving i'll concede you technically win that argument but everyone else knows better. Not being able to disprove doesn't prove anything true. Google Celestial Teapot.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1213 - 2013-09-09 14:18:53 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Most people don’t want to acknowledge or have attention drawn to the income from moons as compared to mission running.


A mission runner in highsec can trivially earn more than a nullsec R64, we've discussed this already.

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Lady Areola Fappington
#1214 - 2013-09-09 14:20:04 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
They are taking as much risk as the high secs. Local enables you to function in null with the same level of risk.


That's rubbish and you know it. Unless you think CONCORD has exactly zero deterrent value.

Do you?


Concords deterrent factor is directly related to the value of the ship your flying. And in high sec where your alliance doesn't control space as many as 2000 non allied people can be in your system. 0-1999 could theoretically be planning your demise. You either stay docked up or play with the risk.

In nullsec avoiding the danger is as simple as checking local. If a target is there that isn't allied you can dock/safe up and avoid the risk. Awoxing doesn't need be considered as that can happen in highsec as well.



So what you're saying is, and correct me if I'm wrong....there's a game mechanic in place that reduces your risk in highsec,so long as you aren't flying stupid.

Since this game mechanic doesn't exist in nullsec, there is substantially more risk involved in undocking anything, so in order to manage this risk, player characters have stepped in to provide the protection the game mechanic provided in high.


And this is wrong how?

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1215 - 2013-09-09 14:20:46 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
i'll go with after 10 years of being around you cap out at roughly 35k playing at any given time.
So you go with lies? That's a shocking change of tactics… Roll
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#1216 - 2013-09-09 14:22:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Concord doesn't prevent you from dying. It merely retaliates on your behalf. And it does so because highsec is designed to be a general playground where unallied pilots can have fun in the sandbox. Because you aren't going to go solo roaming through nullsec. Or rather many aspects of nullsec deter that style of play. Local chat. Bubbles. Limited places to procure ammunition. Gate camps. etc.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1217 - 2013-09-09 14:23:57 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
i'll go with after 10 years of being around you cap out at roughly 35k playing at any given time. Many of which are alts. Players that stick around are not anywhere near the level you imply they are. Dedicated EVE players are not easily replaceable. If that needs proving i'll concede you technically win that argument but everyone else knows better. Not being able to disprove doesn't prove anything true. Google Celestial Teapot.


Yep those alts being nullsec people who are being forced into highsec. You just want to force people into highsec.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1218 - 2013-09-09 14:24:32 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
They are taking as much risk as the high secs. Local enables you to function in null with the same level of risk.


That's rubbish and you know it. Unless you think CONCORD has exactly zero deterrent value.

Do you?


Concords deterrent factor is directly related to the value of the ship your flying. And in high sec where your alliance doesn't control space as many as 2000 non allied people can be in your system. 0-1999 could theoretically be planning your demise. You either stay docked up or play with the risk.

In nullsec avoiding the danger is as simple as checking local. If a target is there that isn't allied you can dock/safe up and avoid the risk. Awoxing doesn't need be considered as that can happen in highsec as well.



So what you're saying is, and correct me if I'm wrong....there's a game mechanic in place that reduces your risk in highsec,so long as you aren't flying stupid.

Since this game mechanic doesn't exist in nullsec, there is substantially more risk involved in undocking anything, so in order to manage this risk, player characters have stepped in to provide the protection the game mechanic provided in high.


And this is wrong how?

You're supposed to be relying on NPCs.

Nerf nullsec

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#1219 - 2013-09-09 14:26:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
La Nariz wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
i'll go with after 10 years of being around you cap out at roughly 35k playing at any given time. Many of which are alts. Players that stick around are not anywhere near the level you imply they are. Dedicated EVE players are not easily replaceable. If that needs proving i'll concede you technically win that argument but everyone else knows better. Not being able to disprove doesn't prove anything true. Google Celestial Teapot.


Yep those alts being nullsec people who are being forced into highsec. You just want to force people into highsec.


Why would I want to force you into high sec? I don't care where you play. It doesn't affect me. You aren't being forced. You're choosing too. Why you make that choice is of a personal nature.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1220 - 2013-09-09 14:32:03 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
i'll go with after 10 years of being around you cap out at roughly 35k playing at any given time. Many of which are alts. Players that stick around are not anywhere near the level you imply they are. Dedicated EVE players are not easily replaceable. If that needs proving i'll concede you technically win that argument but everyone else knows better. Not being able to disprove doesn't prove anything true. Google Celestial Teapot.


Yep those alts being nullsec people who are being forced into highsec. You just want to force people into highsec.


Why would I want to force you into high sec? I don't care where you play. It doesn't affect me. You aren't being forced. You're choosing too. Why you make that choice is of a personal nature.


Liar, you want highsec to be buffed so we all have to move to highsec. You want to force us into highsec because you want to force us into highsec.


~~~~Highsec is Safe~~~~

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