EVE General Discussion

+1

High sec people (willfully) don't understand the mechanics of the situation. They don't know the history.

CCP buffed null with systems upgrades and it was a DISASTER that was rightfully nerfed. The buffed null with FW rewards and that got out of hand. The "mechanics" part that high sec people miss is force, players can use force to secure and then farm the hell out of content outside of high sec, which is why buff meant to broaden appeal of non-high sec areas never work and only serve to enrich the people already organized enough and ballsy enough to be there in the 1st place.

If you have an imbalance and you can't buff your way out of it, the only other option is to nerf the other end. The other end is high sec.

The changes don't have to be nerfs, they can be shifts (like away from liquid isk and towards LP for missions, -10% rewards, -10% bounties, - 10% time bonus, +30 LP for a rough example). A likewise shift in null can be -10% liquid isk bounties in anoms, +10 elevated chance for a faction spawn or escalation (which are the null anom versions of LP because they give material things rather than just isk). That means less isk coming into the game which creates more stable and sustainable growth that what we appear to have now.

But none of what I just typed means anything to the defenders of the unsutainable high sec status quo.



Everything is unreasonable to unreasonable people lol.

Are you Trolling now, none of the above have provided any facts whatsoever? A slim study based on an uber fitted Golem is hardly a satisfactory set of statistics. The rest of the posts of Malcanis and Tippia have been hot air used to defend an emotional opinion that on the face of it has very little substance. It's my own opinion that life is too good in Null and I should know as I am a null sec resident with JC all over the map.

If they behave like you, yes, I do.



Again, your perception is incorrect. You are perceiving my telling you that you are wrong as hostility.

Also, I don't talk like that because I am not a teenage girl. It really doesn't matter to me whether someone finds what I say (or the tone in which I say it, lol) offensive or not.

Really, though. Read what you just wrote out loud. No one talks like that.



No, I'm saying your repeated references to how much "change your sig" offends you are you not realizing that the request was made with no intent but to troll you. It really seems to have upset you, what's more.

Or... I might have been trolling him.

Yeesh.

And, I did not say "singlehandedly". But I do post frequently in F&I, and I'd like to think I was part of the push for a "Round 2" of the industrial rebalance, which did a lot of good.

I shouldn't have to follow any evidence trail. It should be presented in order for us to understand a coherent argument. If I argued against or for global warming you would expect me to provide solid peer reviewable facts that either support my argument that warming is somehow happening or that it isn't. It's no good me saying to you to visit your local library or even worse get on the internet, or that google is your friend, because naturally enough I might not find the same sources that you are relying upon to support your argument. This is intellectual laziness or a big fat dishonesty shield....

Why would you do that....

I think life is too good in high, and I have highsec characters with jump clones all over as well

my most expensive personal ship is safely in high, thankfully

Read my posts, I've clicked the links early on in the thread, I even reposted them when Tippia wouldn't despite the fact that she was using them to support her argument lol. I didn't see any evidence there, just numbers that were not broken down enough by sec status or mission types to mean anything significant.

Well, the if he really wanted me to change my sig it seemed like he was offended. I don't see how he could troll me if I was amused by his repeated requests.

You still haven't addressed the issue though... If whining is what drives changes in EVE, how are you going to push a nerf on 80% of the player base without a massive threadnaught that puts the exhumer ones to shame thus canceling your personal efforts.

Won't you need to sugar coat it someway with some tact and negotiations. Certainly calling the opposition dishonest doesn't seem to be making any friends. Had you said, "Well I know you might feel like we are attacking you personally, but we have no intention to hamper your style of game play in a major fashion. We would like some balance changes to make it more attractive for people to play in null sec. With the new phase of renting, anyone can now enjoy null sec without being involved in null politics so you too can get some benefits these changes".

I mean really, if you just name call and berate the opposition and get all uppity when they don't see your way is no surprise that people won't accept your ideas. And self congratulating each other on posts well done by like minded people won't solve the problem either. You need to reach out and try to negotiate with the other side

First things first... You need to stop calling it "Nerf Highsec". You need to call it "Balance Highsec". See that sounds much more acceptable and reasonable.

Secondly, you need to stop calling the other side derogatory things and come to terms they have needs and wants too.

Explain, in nice terms, that you feel that in order to promote a more healthy game, you would like to see changes that would require some sacrifices to prevent what you perceive as economic problems that will affect everyone negatively.

Say "I know you don't like the rising cost of ships and items just as much as me. We need to fight inflation by reducing isk faucets. I know it sounds like a reduction of income at first, but if we do this the price of ships won't go up as much."

And then offer these people ways of getting into Null sec themselves so that they too can enjoy the benefits of your life style.

Also, when a troll like myself comes along and says something snide, don't rise to the bait or attack the poster. Either ignore it or say something positive like "Haha. Well, I know EVE can be a harsh place, but we can come to an agreement if we work things out."

I'm not sure why I am spelling out this strategy out to you, but I think since I am not invested in the outcome of this debate, I would point out the most logical thing to start doing if you want to reduce the amount of whining that would occur if you pushed through your changes.

You need to win hearts and minds of the people, not make enemies. So stop using words like "intellectual dishonesty" and come up with positive terms like "intellectual conservation" or something.

Otherwise, how are you going to fight the threadnaughts that will occur and if CCP really listens to whining then you can't win that fight?

I see you have no grasp of sarcasm.

Again, you can replace the golem with a good number of other ships and the same or better results. If he had used an Eidolon you would have a point but he didn't, he used a golem which is a common ship in level 4 missions and can be replaced with many other ships for the same or better results.

It was perfectly reasonable in 2009 and 2010 when me and others were asking for L4 nerfs directly in the mission sub-forum.

Since we brought in the only real and tangible numbers, CCP listened and they indeed quickly nerfed L4 missions (all secs, but more hi sec) which lost 15%-20% of their reward per nerf. Back at the time there were (if I recall correctly) 2-3 nerfs and then a later one.

Then came incursions and once again I and others noticed they were quickly destroying EvE's economy and another nerf campaign started. And succeeded.

Then came FW and their magic ISK fountains. I did not personally campaign (I was unsubbed if I recall correctly) but it was due.

Back to today: missions still *slightly* bring in too much ISK but for specific cases of outlier players who:

- keep researching the best LP/ISK valued mods
- keep grinding different standings up since those best mods change over time and are given by different corporations
- use high SP characters and good ships enough to survive full room aggro
- blitz.

Besides this is a kind of effort that needs a better reward than just spamming Caldary Navy missions in the same basic hub, making lots of ISK through blitzing is not an economy breaker, as LP items are an ISK sink and blitzing missions yields to no NPC deaths => no bounty => no faucets besides the smallish mission completion prize (easily undone by LP items ISK prizes).


It's also quite suspicious to see nerf calling on a specific niche of content that... is not in sov null sec.

I mean, those calling for the nerf *at the moment* are not former heavy missioners like myself who had foresight to defend EvE's economy, but entities that have no missions in their territory.

This is why CCP nerfed *their* own unique PvE content, as it's as bad for the economy as missions are (less people doing it, more revenue doing it though) as it's another ISK faucet.


To compound this all, as also recently discussed on Market Discussions, EvE uses the so called "wallets segregation" tecnique to make endless ISK production less of a treat.

The net result is that in these days we assist to a number of important markets going down (minerals), and PLEX staying steady. PLEX is a very good indicator of EvE's economy. PLEX is also a great tool for the Good Doctor to strenghten EvE's economy, as he has just to burn some confiscated PLEXes to undo inflative trends.


So in the end, it WAS necessary to nerf L4 missions, several times in a row, but now it's not. Not at the moment. An hot period like Christmas should be a better indicator, then the results being reported at next Fanfest would speak by themselves.

Those are the only results the count, those in the hand of the Good Doctor.

All the rest is biased talk that has no place in a serious economy rebalance.

(Edit: it's now 2+ years I don't do any mission any more. It's boring and low revenue content much useful to start up as a player but then proper ISK venues easily take over so I dropped them.
I am surprised seeing all those 2005-6 players who seem to still be stuck doing L4 missions like they are a mannah, it's not credible at all).