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Do Level 4 missions pay too much compared to 1 through 3?

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#701 - 2013-09-05 23:02:40 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
However I know from reading these forums there is sizeable segment of null sec care bears out there that want to punish people for living in high sec, these same null bears are usually under pressure from their corp/alliance leadership for kills and would love to see lots of soft targets suddenly emerge from null into their space. Thing is though once people get used to life in null, they stop being soft targets, which causes more problems for them in more ways than one. I'm not saying that your in this camp, but I suspect a few of your supporters are.

I just honeslty don't know where this nonsens comes from. So now it's a conspiracy of null players to get peolpe into null to get kills so they don't get kicked from corp? This is so far outside the bounds of reality I felt like reaching for a Valium just reading it.

Elite pvp?

Did PL have to farm the lowsec-highsec gates for kills to make their killboard green after the famous "twelve black legion spies" incident?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#702 - 2013-09-05 23:03:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
That whole "they just want me to go to null sec/they don't like how I play" is a self serving lie weak-minded players tell themsves to escape (in their own minds) from the stigmate of being a non-contributing leech on the game's society. It's how they tell themselves they actually matter when none of us matter a bit beyond our subscription price. It' makes me sick to see people lie to themselves like that.

Ehhhh, that sounds so sad.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
ashley Eoner
#703 - 2013-09-05 23:19:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Jenn aSide wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

They tried that when they moved level 5s to lowsec. Now almost no one runs level 5s.

The funny thing is if you have a well skilled tengu then you can make many times more isk doing other things then level 4s.


How can anyone get the history of lvl 5s this wrong.

CCP didn't move level 5s to low sec to encourage people to do something. The fixed a bug that allowed lvl 5s in high sec in the 1st place. There NEVER should have been a single high sec lvl 5. The devblog from back then explaining the big fix is a google search away.

Google does not produce this blog of yours.


The complaining on the forums were immense about how unfair it was for so much isk to be made in highsec via level 5s. I don't ever recall there being a blog post about it being a bug for all that time it existed. If true then that would of been a long time to fix a pretty huge bug.


Regardless the point still remains. Moving reward to lowsec failed to more people there.

Jenn aSide wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

Never going to happen with how this game is setup. Even sleepers and incursions which are a challenge are done only for the isk grind. You don't PVE for the challenge for long or you'll get bored. Even pvp gets monotonous after a while if you don't switch it up.



You forgot to include the words "for me". I like EVE pve and run missions , incursions and complexes everyday without getting bored.

I don't care if pve has some pvp link or another, I'm here to slaughter npcs after work with the occasional jaunt into killing real in-game people.
Reading comprehension is hard. Probably the same reason you find completing the same task hundreds of thousands of times to be stimulating.

Or are you trying to argue that the only reason people do sleepers is for the challenge??
ashley Eoner
#704 - 2013-09-05 23:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Jenn aSide wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


However I know from reading these forums there is sizeable segment of null sec care bears out there that want to punish people for living in high sec, these same null bears are usually under pressure from their corp/alliance leadership for kills and would love to see lots of soft targets suddenly emerge from null into their space. Thing is though once people get used to life in null, they stop being soft targets, which causes more problems for them in more ways than one. I'm not saying that your in this camp, but I suspect a few of your supporters are.


I just honeslty don't know where this nonsens comes from. So now it's a conspiracy of null players to get peolpe into null to get kills so they don't get kicked from corp? This is so far outside the bounds of reality I felt like reaching for a Valium just reading it.

Where has anyone (other than high sec carebears with no or little real null sec experiance) suggested that the 1.75 MILLION kills per year (generated by only 30-35,000 characters as most EVE characters never leave high sec) in null sec per average just wasn't enough?

That whole "they just want me to go to null sec/they don't like how I play" is a self serving lie weak-minded players tell themsves to escape (in their own minds) from the stigmate of being a non-contributing leech on the game's society. It's how they tell themselves they actually matter when none of us matter a bit beyond our subscription price. It' makes me sick to see people lie to themselves like that.

NO ONE wants anyone to go to null. On behalf of every null sec PVEr ever, we'd prefer you stay far away if you aren't blue.
Wow your post is so full of hilarious fail I don't even know where to begin. I can't tell if you're just trolling or if you're actually being serious.

Things like
Quote:
"That whole "they just want me to go to null sec/they don't like how I play" is a self serving lie weak-minded players tell themsves to escape (in their own minds) from the stigmate of being a non-contributing leech on the game's society"
make me pretty sure you're just trolling because that's probably one of the dumbest comments I've seen on a gaming site. They are no more a leach then you as they pay the same price to play as you.


EDIT : If you are serious then I believe an intervention needs to be scheduled for you ASAP. You have completely lost perspective and you need to realize that real life is outside the door not on your computer.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#705 - 2013-09-05 23:43:09 UTC
All these posts continue, but I still see no evidence backed by data.

I was hoping to get someone to create a webpage out of all this for my sake citing CCP data in a meaningful way that can compare both sides of this argument.

Oh well... I guess you can't expect people to back up their claims.

You know what. I don't even mission and don't care what happens to high sec mission runners and I'd like to see some proof.

It just unnerves me that people think they can win the forum war by making a statement and assuming everyone will just believe them and getting all uppity when someone asks them to prove their claim.

Let's hope none of you are thinking about a career in academia.

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#706 - 2013-09-06 02:08:43 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


You need to read my other posts before jumping to conclusions, if you had you would be aware that I live in null. As for being blue I bet you like that as non blue makes you dock up.


Living in null (lol at the, npc null isn't real null btw) doesn't make one an expert or sensible.

The fact is you spouted the same self serving non-sense that others have been saying for years. It's highly ignorant, and imaging motivations for people that don't exist is a sign that the poster doesn't understand the issue being discussed.

I mean really, you honestly think thatn peole, who care about the health of the game and see fixibile imblances merely want more kills?

This is my pvp main. http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=155400 As you can see, I don't pvp much (or well....) No one has put any preassure on me to get more kills. My opinion (that certain things need looking at) comes from my concern for the game I enjoy. So sorry if that doesn't fit you useless conspiracy theories.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#707 - 2013-09-06 02:16:11 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
If hisec is so awesome then leave null and play there. Simple isn't it?


Already ahead of you, I have three trade alts, a science alt, and an industry alt in highsec each is making more isk/hr than I could in nullsec doing any of those activities. My main also lives in highsec and ganks people for a living so yeah I have left null for the greener pastures. I'm still going to argue in favor of a restoration of risk:reward to nullsec and a favoritism of newbees over bittervets. Oh yeah not one of my alts has died in highsec either.

~~~~Highsec is safe~~~~

So to shift the balance back to where it should be in nullsec/wh>lowsec>highsec, taxes on npc corps need to greatly increase say to 40%, become dynamic charging X% dependent on the amount of players using that empire's space, or some other interesting factor based on a player influenced interaction. It should also charge more tax to people that concord saves because they used the concord service. L1, L2, L3, and L5 missions should have their reward increased while L4 missions get a decrease to bring them in line. Some dev somewhere said something along the lines of you pay an exponential amount of price to get a linear increase in performance so in applying this to missions L4s would become much harder to the point you have to pay attention to the things and good luck blitzing them.

Nullsec alliances should be able to write their own missions and place their own agents, these missions can pay out as the alliance chooses. For example sample missions could be "go kill some random red guy in our space," "go seed this station with product," "go scan X moons," or "go AFK cloak in these people's space." This ties automating annoying tasks like paying people to do something, creating emergent game play, and missions together. The only NPC in this would be a quality of life npc to give the mission so some poor sap wouldn't have to stay logged in and paying attention 24/7.

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#708 - 2013-09-06 02:18:25 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:

They tried that when they moved level 5s to lowsec. Now almost no one runs level 5s.

The funny thing is if you have a well skilled tengu then you can make many times more isk doing other things then level 4s.


How can anyone get the history of lvl 5s this wrong.

CCP didn't move level 5s to low sec to encourage people to do something. The fixed a bug that allowed lvl 5s in high sec in the 1st place. There NEVER should have been a single high sec lvl 5. The devblog from back then explaining the big fix is a google search away.

Google does not produce this blog of yours.


The complaining on the forums were immense about how unfair it was for so much isk to be made in highsec via level 5s. I don't ever recall there being a blog post about it being a bug for all that time it existed. If true then that would of been a long time to fix a pretty huge bug.


Regardless the point still remains. Moving reward to lowsec failed to more people there.


So you play on an internet spaceship game and post on an internet board and have yet to learn how to use the internet?

That's beyond sad.

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1334641&page=1#1
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#709 - 2013-09-06 02:19:02 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Captain Tardbar wrote:

It just unnerves me that people think they can win the forum war by making a statement and assuming everyone will just believe them and getting all uppity when someone asks them to prove their claim.


:ironicat:

Its not like the highsec miners did this repeatedly over moons and ganking, or the highsec mission runners did this repeatedly over this thread. This is pretty much a highsec thing.

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#710 - 2013-09-06 02:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
La Nariz wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:

It just unnerves me that people think they can win the forum war by making a statement and assuming everyone will just believe them and getting all uppity when someone asks them to prove their claim.


:ironicat:

Its not like the highsec miners did this repeatedly over moons and ganking, or the highsec mission runners did this repeatedly over this thread. This is pretty much a highsec thing.


You know they did buff exhumers and nerf moon income. People will state that this is likely due to complaints, but CCP never said why they did these things. People just assumed that forums were the cause and acted accordingly in their reactions.

I would suspect CCP looked at data they had access to and made decisions accordingly to balance the game.

But if you want believe that posting hundreds of posts changes the balancing process then go ahead. I have no way to prove either way since CCP doesn't say why they did these things.

Well if the people that said its because of forum complaints are right it means CCP cares more about carebears than other people. You should get mad and post more then.

Its ok. I was thinking about ganking this covetor in this belt.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#711 - 2013-09-06 02:56:56 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:

It just unnerves me that people think they can win the forum war by making a statement and assuming everyone will just believe them and getting all uppity when someone asks them to prove their claim.


:ironicat:

Its not like the highsec miners did this repeatedly over moons and ganking, or the highsec mission runners did this repeatedly over this thread. This is pretty much a highsec thing.


You know they did buff exhumers and nerf moon income. People will state that this is likely due to complaints, but CCP never said why they did these things. People just assumed that forums were the cause and acted accordingly in their reactions.

I would suspect CCP looked at data they had access to and made decisions accordingly to balance the game.

But if you want believe that posting hundreds of posts changes the balancing process then go ahead. I have no way to prove either way since CCP doesn't say why they did these things.

Well if the people that siad its because of forum complaints are right it means CCP cares more about carebears than other people.

Its ok. I was thinking about ganking this covetor in this belt.


Yeah because CCP will openly state they caved to the forum howls of the few incredibly upset highsec miners. Its not like that wouldn't further a transition from forums to complaint department or anything. Its pretty much been proven from past events that posting random crap no matter what it is will make a difference even if its inane. You've literally got people using "CCP should leave X broken because" to argue against fixing game problems. People cite "X is good for CCP's bottom line Y is not" without any data, and claim it is better than the age old time-proven "'a good product sells itself,' so CCP should fix the game and make it a good product." A statistically significant amount of these people making these posts are highsec people too.


~~~~Highsec is Safe~~~~

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#712 - 2013-09-06 03:11:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Well. I'm not saying hi-sec is worse or better than null. I don't care.

I just want people who make these statements to back them up.

Tippia said she had empirical evidence that there was an imbalance.

Yet, despite repeated requests, he never showed anything other than a list of total incomes that did not show where the income came from.

Truth be told its most likley because I don't like Tippia so anything that pokes holes in his arguments is a plus.

I'm not sure how I came up with the idea, but I realized that people were making claims both ways and it dawned on me that no one has the answer so I simply targed the person I like the least.

Sure... If anyone on the high-sec camp wants to bring up evidence feel free or don't make those statements without evidence either.

What I am trying to do is shut down this argument is that no one except CCP has the data to prove high-sec is imbalanced.

So everyone saying one way or the other should go home.

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#713 - 2013-09-06 03:18:08 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Well. I'm not saying hi-sec is worse or better than null. I don't care.

I just want people who make these statements to back them up.

Tippia said she had empirical evidence that there was an imbalance.

Yet, despite repeated requests, he never showed anything other than a list of total incomes that did not show where the income came from.

Truth be told its most likley because I don't like Tippia so anything that pokes holes in his arguments is a plus.

I'm not sure how I came up with the idea, but I realized that people were making claims both ways and it dawned on me that no one has the answer so I simply targed the person I like the least.

Sure... If anyone on the high-sec camp wants to bring up evidence feel free or don't make those statements without evidence either.

What I am trying to do is shut down this argument is that no one except CCP has the data to prove high-sec is imbalanced.

So everyone saying one way or the other should go home.


You pretty much only go after people speaking in favor of nullsec and rarely lend any scrutiny to highsec howlers so pretend to be impartial all you like. Tippia is probably tired of regurgitating the same facts to the same highsec howlers that made a new npc alt to complain about something they want changed to their benefit or has already provided what you asked for you just refused/couldn't see it.

There is data that proves highsec is imbalanced, look at industry, mining, trade, and population data. Do some interpolation of mission runner income and compare it to interpolation of anomaly runner data. Its pretty obvious to all but those who live in their own little bubble like most highsec dwellers do, they can do this too because highsec is safe.

~~~~Highsec is safe~~~~.

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#714 - 2013-09-06 03:28:28 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Well. I'm not saying hi-sec is worse or better than null. I don't care.

I just want people who make these statements to back them up.

Tippia said she had empirical evidence that there was an imbalance.

Yet, despite repeated requests, he never showed anything other than a list of total incomes that did not show where the income came from.

Truth be told its most likley because I don't like Tippia so anything that pokes holes in his arguments is a plus.

I'm not sure how I came up with the idea, but I realized that people were making claims both ways and it dawned on me that no one has the answer so I simply targed the person I like the least.

Sure... If anyone on the high-sec camp wants to bring up evidence feel free or don't make those statements without evidence either.

What I am trying to do is shut down this argument is that no one except CCP has the data to prove high-sec is imbalanced.

So everyone saying one way or the other should go home.


You pretty much only go after people speaking in favor of nullsec and rarely lend any scrutiny to highsec howlers so pretend to be impartial all you like. Tippia is probably tired of regurgitating the same facts to the same highsec howlers that made a new npc alt to complain about something they want changed to their benefit or has already provided what you asked for you just refused/couldn't see it.

There is data that proves highsec is imbalanced, look at industry, mining, trade, and population data. Do some interpolation of mission runner income and compare it to interpolation of anomaly runner data. Its pretty obvious to all but those who live in their own little bubble like most highsec dwellers do, they can do this too because highsec is safe.

~~~~Highsec is safe~~~~.


I could give a rats ass about high sec and null sec. Feel free to nerf or buff them as you please.

I just don't like some of the posters that frequently support null because they post the most frequently and most arogantly for some reason. I might be biased, but I find these people to need some counter.

Name me one champion of high sec that posts with such frequency and viciousness.

Other than me.

I mean I don't count. I might just be a troll.

Maybe I should run for CSM as the "hateful high sec cannidate".

Also, I would like you to link me to a thread where someone actively calls for null sec to be nerfed because it was imbalanced. I could go through all the threadnaughts about "Hi-sec doesn't have enough risk! Null-sec industry is broken, fix it by nerfing high-sec! High-sec is causing inflation!" Well there is that thread about buffing high but that is obviously a troll.

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#715 - 2013-09-06 03:29:39 UTC
Also, you say this data exists. If it does. Link it.

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#716 - 2013-09-06 03:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Also, hi-sec is not 100% safe. To say so demeans the work of all the gankers in the game.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#717 - 2013-09-06 04:00:14 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
There is data that proves highsec is imbalanced, look at industry, mining, trade, and population data. Do some interpolation of mission runner income and compare it to interpolation of anomaly runner data. Its pretty obvious to all but those who live in their own little bubble like most highsec dwellers do, they can do this too because highsec is safe.

~~~~Highsec is safe~~~~.

Shut up nullsec zealot, general discussion knows better than to listen to you

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#718 - 2013-09-06 04:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Captain Tardbar wrote:

I could give a rats ass about high sec and null sec. Feel free to nerf or buff them as you please.

I just don't like some of the posters that frequently support null because they post the most frequently and most arogantly for some reason. I might be biased, but I find these people to need some counter.

Name me one champion of high sec that posts with such frequency and viciousness.

Other than me.

I mean I don't count. I might just be a troll.

Maybe I should run for CSM as the "hateful high sec cannidate".

Also, I would like you to link me to a thread where someone actively calls for null sec to be nerfed because it was imbalanced. I could go through all the threadnaughts about "Hi-sec doesn't have enough risk! Null-sec industry is broken, fix it by nerfing high-sec! High-sec is causing inflation!" Well there is that thread about buffing high but that is obviously a troll.


So you don't like people who support null because they are involved with the game more than highsec people are. You don't like the people who are most engaged in player interaction, what the game was literally designed for.

The champion you seek "Darth Nefarious."

I can tell you we have been saying moons were imbalanced long before they got nerfed, there was no threadnaught of it we'd just been saying it for a long time. Just like we are now saying supercaps are imbalanced, its great that nullsec at least attempts to moderate itself. Unlike highsec which sits there like an obese person at an all you can eat buffet constantly demanding buffs to itself and nerfs to others that interfere with it.

All of the data behind my claims can be found at this link www.google.com/ it will require the proper words typed in it to get the information though. I don't do any digging until I find a highsec pubbie that can actually present a cogent argument. I've linked them before and even generated statistics on it before, so you could comb my post history if you want to find that data too.


I want you to 100% prove that highsec is not safe with data points, statistics and a full thesis until then your claims are crap.

~~~~Highsec is Safe~~~~

E: Your sig literally rails against people that have pointed out time and time again the decadence and horrible excesses of highsec
Quote:
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby".

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#719 - 2013-09-06 04:23:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
La Nariz wrote:
So you don't like people who support null because they are involved with the game more than highsec people are. You don't like the people who are most engaged in player interaction, what the game was literally designed for.

The champion you seek "Darth Nefarious."

Where is he?

In a thread like this, isn't it practically requiring his erudite "nullsec is too safe because of players working together" voice?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#720 - 2013-09-06 04:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Darth Nefarious? Seriously. He's the champion of high-sec. I think your being trolled good sir.. Anyways...

I did a google search for "EVE Online player income" and this thread pops up so good lot that does.

Secondly, aren't you the one supposed to be providing the evidence. You are making the claim.

It would be like a scientist said "My hypothesis is true. Go look it up." They would be laughed out of their profession.

Saying "find the keywords to google it" doesn't count as proving anything. There is tons of data. I want to know which data you think applies.

I'm not proving anything. I am asking you to prove it. That you do the work and prove it.

Otherwise you are not only not proving you point, you are coming across as lazy or that you never had the data to begin with.

Let's not get wishy washy on the issue by trying to start an argument on my personal being.

Either you can prove your point with data or you don't have the data which means your argument can't be proven true.

Keep in mind I never said I could prove high-sec was balanced nor implied that there was data to back this up.

For all we know it might not, but there is no evidence either way is what I am saying.

But you are saying IT IS a certain way so I want you to back that up.

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