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Do Level 4 missions pay too much compared to 1 through 3?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#41 - 2013-06-21 18:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The real difference come from the fact that lvl 4 is the end level.
Close, but not quite. I'd say that the problem is that people treat L4s as if it's the end level, and that the missions themselves have such high income caps that it helps with this illusion. The entire system needs to be disabused of this incorrect notion.

Ideally, that cap should be set lower so that once you've gathered up that pimp mission ship, L4s no longer offer any improvement — you're banging against ceiling and need to move on to something more lucrative that's better suited for the level of skill and equipment you've amassed. Yes, the casual player might never reach that ceiling, but that's fine too, and rather shows that it wouldn't really be a bad thing.

That progression needs more fixes than that. The lower-end could certainly use a bump in income; more difficulty needs to be introduced earlier; the jumps in both income and opposition need to be smoothed out; a natural “it's time to move on…” endpoint needs to be added to all of them.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2013-06-21 18:44:08 UTC
Omar Godsman wrote:



What even happened to lvl 5 missions???


They are in low sec and thus, don't exist to the high sec bears.
Sandroz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-06-21 18:44:39 UTC
*hands the OP troll a cookie*
Now no one can say I never feed trolls
Adunh Slavy
#44 - 2013-06-21 18:54:39 UTC
Nerf *all* rat rounties by 90%, reduce all skill book costs by 90%, reduce all ISK required by LP stores by 90%.

There, now doing something else other than missions is worth while. There's enough ISK in eve to feed the economy for a long time.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-06-21 19:04:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The real difference come from the fact that lvl 4 is the end level.
Close, but not quite. I'd say that the problem is that people treat L4s as if it's the end level, and that the missions themselves have such high income caps that it helps with this illusion. The entire system needs to be disabused of this incorrect notion.

Ideally, that cap should be set lower so that once you've gathered up that pimp mission ship, L4s no longer offer any improvement — you're banging against ceiling and need to move on to something more lucrative that's better suited for the level of skill and equipment you've amassed. Yes, the casual player might never reach that ceiling, but that's fine too, and rather shows that it wouldn't really be a bad thing.

That progression needs more fixes than that. The lower-end could certainly use a bump in income; more difficulty needs to be introduced earlier; the jumps in both income and opposition need to be smoothed out; a natural “it's time to move on…” endpoint needs to be added to all of them.


To cap the reward potential of lvl 4, change how LP are given since top mission runner count on LP to make bank not bounties and mission isk rewards. Force people to actaully clear mission field for full LP payment so they can't blitz for more money than killing. It will slow them down thus reducing thier isk/hour cap. The lower skill pilot who can't blitz anyway won't really be affected.
Tiber Ibis
The Paratwa Ka
#46 - 2013-06-21 19:07:48 UTC
To be honest, even with a max skilled character with a faction ship and modules, the income for level 4s is still too low to be worth my time. It is good for new players getting to grips with the game, but your never going to make mega bucks by grinding missions all day. So working as intended in my opinion.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#47 - 2013-06-21 19:17:40 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
To cap the reward potential of lvl 4, change how LP are given since top mission runner count on LP to make bank not bounties and mission isk rewards. Force people to actaully clear mission field for full LP payment so they can't blitz for more money than killing. It will slow them down thus reducing thier isk/hour cap. The lower skill pilot who can't blitz anyway won't really be affected.

Hmm… could work. The question is how. Also, with less LP being handed out, the LP store goods would go up in value and this would somewhat counteract such a change.

Maybe if there was some kind of ramp-up for both LP and ISK payouts? The missions are already scored by how long they take on average, but what if some immediate reward-for-time balancing as well, such as the LP and ISK rewards not being fixed, but rather what they max out at, and then they constantly increase at [magically determined rate] per minute while the mission is active. So if a mission gives 4k LP + 4M ISK, it takes 10 minutes of ramp-up before that maximum is reached; if it's 8k + 8M, it takes 20 minutes to max it out. Come home too soon, and you get proportionally lower (semi-)fixed rewards.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-06-21 19:27:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
To cap the reward potential of lvl 4, change how LP are given since top mission runner count on LP to make bank not bounties and mission isk rewards. Force people to actaully clear mission field for full LP payment so they can't blitz for more money than killing. It will slow them down thus reducing thier isk/hour cap. The lower skill pilot who can't blitz anyway won't really be affected.

Hmm… could work. The question is how. Also, with less LP being handed out, the LP store goods would go up in value and this would somewhat counteract such a change.

Maybe if there was some kind of ramp-up for both LP and ISK payouts? The missions are already scored by how long they take on average, but what if some immediate reward-for-time balancing as well, such as the LP and ISK rewards not being fixed, but rather what they max out at, and then they constantly increase at [magically determined rate] per minute while the mission is active. So if a mission gives 4k LP + 4M ISK, it takes 10 minutes of ramp-up before that maximum is reached; if it's 8k + 8M, it takes 20 minutes to max it out. Come home too soon, and you get proportionally lower (semi-)fixed rewards.


That would work too because it hits the right target. The only problem I see is people chaining missions from the same system or close to be able to still blitz with your idea. Find a system with more than one lvl4 agent and run 2 missions insetaad of 1. You will take longer to come back without really impacting the current isk/hours because you have 2 timers working side by side. This hole in the net can be plugged by forcing no more than 1 mission active at a time.
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#49 - 2013-06-21 19:29:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
EvEa Deva wrote:
Yes lvl 1-3 missions need a buff, Level 4s are steady good income, but if you compare them in skills/ships needed VS faction warfare they are pretty low income.


No high sec level 4s need a nerf.

Its the one that stands out after all.


60 million an hour if you get some decent missions, normal number is more like 30 million for lower SP players, if they salvage and use LP to buy/sell stuff on the market.

But enough of this dead horse because some people are so anti-everythingbutmyplaystyle every thread turns into a sameold troll reunion.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#50 - 2013-06-21 19:33:10 UTC
You want to start another campaign to destroy high sec income, take it features and ideas.

This is supposed to be for general discussion, not suggested game mechanics.

I look forward to see if the ISD follows their own rules and moves this thread to that forum.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#51 - 2013-06-21 19:37:47 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
You want to start another campaign to destroy high sec income
Good thing that missions only exist in highsec. Ohwait…
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#52 - 2013-06-21 20:13:51 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:
]

Level 4 Mission... 60 million per hour

Consider that it costs 5m isk to fit up a proper condor for level 1 missions, if you happen to lose the one from the tutorial, it would take you 2.5 hours of mission grinding to replace that condor. With the new system you could have it replaced in the better part of an hour.
.



Consider that it costs 2b isk to fit up a proper nightmare for level 4 missions, if you happen to lose it, it would take you over 30 hours of mission grinding to replace that nightmare. With the new system you could have it replaced in the better part of an hour.

Buff lv4 income by 350%

Thank.
DRGaius Baltar
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-06-21 20:25:40 UTC
Missions are for scrubs
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#54 - 2013-06-21 20:26:47 UTC
Don't know why some people complain about l4 mission runners so much. The income really isn't that super duper great even the higher end numbers some boast about. On top of that it's a mind numbing grind after doing the same mission for the 100th time.
Just be glad and thankful those mission runners don't venture into more profitable playstyles and create more competition for you there.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#55 - 2013-06-21 20:59:39 UTC
stop me if I am wrong, but is Mission primary and possible only isk printing in EVE online?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#56 - 2013-06-21 21:06:58 UTC
unidenify wrote:
stop me if I am wrong, but is Mission primary and possible only isk printing in EVE online?

It's one of the three activities that contribute to the largest portion of ISK injection (bounties), yes — the other two being combat sites and plain old belt ratting.

On top of that, they are responsible for the fifth and sixth (or, if you like, smallest and next smallest) ISK faucets (mission rewards and bonuses), but those two are consistently cancelled out by the LP store.
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#57 - 2013-06-21 21:43:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Kult Altol
Posting in a destination skill que ship toasting thread number 5


*skill training online

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

tikiana
Golden Eagle Research Corp
#58 - 2013-06-21 23:16:21 UTC
The only way to fix this is to limit the amount of mission a person can run lets say 2 lvl 4s a week. and leave the rest as is.

Or you have to run 15 lvl 3s to get offered a lvl 4 and then remove the storyline missions, or you have to then run 15 lvl 4s to get a story line and it can be a super mission
Caldari Citizen 20120308
Doomheim
#59 - 2013-06-21 23:21:36 UTC
Are you high on something? Making over 60 million an hour wtf .... If lucky flying solo and with a standard bs you're looking at most 20-30 an hour at best. Now if you ahve plenty of alts along with your t2/faction battleship then yes maybe your character is making more than 60m an hour.

Crawl back into your cave while i drink a few more beers.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#60 - 2013-06-21 23:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:
Are you high on something? Making over 60 million an hour wtf .... If lucky flying solo and with a standard bs you're looking at most
…70–100M, if you're efficient (and using obsolete ships); 45M if you're pedantic about picking up every last valuable.

But those are old numbers. You get more faster these days.