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Do Level 4 missions pay too much compared to 1 through 3?

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Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#21 - 2013-06-21 17:19:29 UTC
Remove all missions from high-sec, drop the payouts/bounties by 99.99%.
Anyone making more than 1isk/hour in any activity in high-sec is automatically biomassed without warning.

This will completely solve all high-sec issues.

Profit favors the prepared
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-06-21 17:19:56 UTC
Yes lvl 1-3 missions need a buff, Level 4s are steady good income, but if you compare them in skills/ships needed VS faction warfare they are pretty low income.
Mytai Gengod
Sebees
#23 - 2013-06-21 17:24:35 UTC
I also want to add I'm against any major changes to payouts or difficulty. It seems like every patch has some change that nerfs gameplay for new players. From T2 BPO's, to recent skill changes (which I managed to just squeeze in), to capital large rigs, etc. As a person who has spent the last 3-4 months working to level 4's and plan to do my 2nd this weekend (don't ask about my 1st), it will not be appreciated.

My first level 4 mission, scarlett pirate or whatever it's called, smoked me. If your running faction/t3/etc gear and complaining about it being too easy, that's ridiculous.

It's easy to armchair game design EVE for 5 year vets with loaded bank accounts and ship hangers. Asking that newer players have much more difficult grind to get where you are is shameful really.
Omarous III
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-06-21 17:25:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Omarous III
I think what people are missing on this topic, is that in order to make 60 - 100m, you need to have invested a lot of time in getting skills, isk and outfitting a high level ship to run those missions.

For someone new (like me) with my tech 1 fit and standard domi... I can't make that much. I make about 8 - 15mil an hour, which is about right.

If you put the time and effort in to run those missions, you deserve the payout IMHO.

Edit: Just to clarify my point, the types of people pulling in 60 - 100mil an hour probably have so much isk in the bank that it is a drop in the bucket compared to a new person who is probably only pulling in 15 mil/hr or so due to their lower level fit.
BORRIS DEMONTFORD
THE OFFENDERS
#25 - 2013-06-21 17:28:06 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The pay is fine; the risks are far too low.



I don't think the risk can be adjusted without removing them from hi-sec due to the nature of missions tbh.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2013-06-21 17:33:50 UTC
EvEa Deva wrote:
Yes lvl 1-3 missions need a buff, Level 4s are steady good income, but if you compare them in skills/ships needed VS faction warfare they are pretty low income.


No high sec level 4s need a nerf.

Its the one that stands out after all.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#27 - 2013-06-21 17:36:25 UTC
Please, explain how do you make 60mil/hour in L4s? I can't make even 30mil/h for Caldari navy (poor LP shop choice I guess)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#28 - 2013-06-21 17:42:20 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Please, explain how do you make 60mil/hour in L4s? I can't make even 30mil/h for Caldari navy (poor LP shop choice I guess)
Ignore loot, ignore salvage, ignore all but the highest-bounty ships, blast through to the objective, get/kill it, get a new mission ASAP, repeat.

The biggest error people make when trying to increase their L4 income is to come back to loot and salvage — it massively reduces your income unless you can do large batch jobs (e.g. 10 missions in rapid succession in one system using a Noctis)… and even then, it's questionable.
Korah Arnelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-06-21 17:59:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The pay is fine; the risks are far too low.



Pretty much this. There's some missions I can literally get up to pee and be back in three minutes and nothing really bad happened (Even to my sentry drones).
Korah Arnelle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-06-21 18:03:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
Please, explain how do you make 60mil/hour in L4s? I can't make even 30mil/h for Caldari navy (poor LP shop choice I guess)
Ignore loot, ignore salvage, ignore all but the highest-bounty ships, blast through to the objective, get/kill it, get a new mission ASAP, repeat.

The biggest error people make when trying to increase their L4 income is to come back to loot and salvage — it massively reduces your income unless you can do large batch jobs (e.g. 10 missions in rapid succession in one system using a Noctis)… and even then, it's questionable.



Thanks for clearing up my own ignorance there as well. I've often tried to clear every things from a mission that didn't need to be cleared. Now I know better, lol.
Throktar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#31 - 2013-06-21 18:13:16 UTC
To those who want to nerf level 4's all the time I am genuinely asking this question...What is it about someone doing their own thing and running missions that bothers you? Also, so what if they are making a lot of isk, what concern of that is yours? There are BP manufacturing toons who never undock and make billions, should we nerf them too? No of course not, they put the time and effort in to make it there.

I believe its truly a difference in people's personalities. I know there are probably 10,000 or more players who have more isk that I do, yet I strive to build up an wealth like theirs, not try to knock them all down to my level so its "fair".
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2013-06-21 18:18:01 UTC
Throktar wrote:
What is it about someone doing their own thing and running missions that bothers you?
Aside from the fact that the way EVE is put together, the whole “do your own thing” doesn't really exist… nothing. The problem with missions is that their effort:reward is out of whack.

Quote:
Also, so what if they are making a lot of isk, what concern of that is yours?
It's a single economy. Any given activity spewing out ISK at an unreasonable rate is problematic.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#33 - 2013-06-21 18:22:07 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The pay is fine; the risks are far too low.


Yeah, right.

The risks are far too high, not too low.
So the plan is nerf missions, then go after incursions once you have lowered the value of missions?

Seems to me back in December mission income was hammered with the AI nerf, yet here we are again.
And before that we had the mission payout nerfed when meta 0 mods were removed from the loot tables.
And I remember somewhere in there a nerf to mission payouts when the other meta drops were "rebalanced".

Same crap from the same actors as before.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#34 - 2013-06-21 18:23:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
Please, explain how do you make 60mil/hour in L4s? I can't make even 30mil/h for Caldari navy (poor LP shop choice I guess)
Ignore loot, ignore salvage, ignore all but the highest-bounty ships, blast through to the objective, get/kill it, get a new mission ASAP, repeat.

The biggest error people make when trying to increase their L4 income is to come back to loot and salvage — it massively reduces your income unless you can do large batch jobs (e.g. 10 missions in rapid succession in one system using a Noctis)… and even then, it's questionable.




Lowsec missions would be doable if people did them that way. Often it's orbit/gimp-in-place till all rats are dead, profit?

The expectation of taking a long time to fully exploit a mission is why almost nobody takes lowsec missions. It boils down to expectations, like the notion that merely jumping into low is automatic instagank every time.

Since the forums are all about complaining, perchance those who figured this out are actually playing the game and never come to the forums to talk about it.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2013-06-21 18:26:33 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
The risks are far too high, not too low.
In L4s?! LMAO Lol
The only way for the risks to be lower would be if the missions auto-completed themselves when you clicked the “accept” button.

The risk in L4s is zero. The only way to create some is to have no tank at all, but that's your decision — not something the missions themselves are designed around.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#36 - 2013-06-21 18:29:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
The risks are far too high, not too low.
In L4s?! LMAO Lol
The only way for the risks to be lower would be if the missions auto-completed themselves when you clicked the “accept” button.

The risk in L4s is zero. The only way to create some is to have no tank at all, but that's your decision — not something the missions themselves are designed around.


Yes, lvl 4s are dangerous, but only when they include U.N. CSM Black Helicopters that swoop down and carry people off to null sec by force. This conspiracy goes to the highest levels!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-06-21 18:32:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Throktar wrote:
What is it about someone doing their own thing and running missions that bothers you?
Aside from the fact that the way EVE is put together, the whole “do your own thing” doesn't really exist… nothing. The problem with missions is that their effort:reward is out of whack.

Quote:
Also, so what if they are making a lot of isk, what concern of that is yours?
It's a single economy. Any given activity spewing out ISK at an unreasonable rate is problematic.


But you are attacking the problem from the wrong angle because not every mission runner is able to get those time:isk ratio. The guy just starting lvl4 is not chunring them at breakneck speed in his faction fit pirate BS. The guy who just bough his 1st BS with only somewhat decent skill in a lvl 4 will no be breaking the bank at all. The real difference come from the fact that lvl 4 is the end level. Nobody really run lvl 3 in faction fit ship with perfect set of implants to maximise thier isk and thats why the income seems out of whack. How much could people really earn if they did put the effort to see what is the real upper limit of lvl 3 when chained and run at neckbreak speed in really optimised ship/fit.

Increase the spending people do on high level mission to do them optimally if you really want to nerf the income of high level runners. The LP store is probably the best palce for this since you can eliminate ISK from the game without impacting the lesser mission runner as much.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-06-21 18:33:44 UTC
This thread again. Well, good thing CCP doesn't take you seriously.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#39 - 2013-06-21 18:35:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
Please, explain how do you make 60mil/hour in L4s? I can't make even 30mil/h for Caldari navy (poor LP shop choice I guess)
Ignore loot, ignore salvage, ignore all but the highest-bounty ships, blast through to the objective, get/kill it, get a new mission ASAP, repeat.

The biggest error people make when trying to increase their L4 income is to come back to loot and salvage — it massively reduces your income unless you can do large batch jobs (e.g. 10 missions in rapid succession in one system using a Noctis)… and even then, it's questionable.




Also we are forgetting something: missioning for LP. What you describe is perfect for LP farming. Consider that you use LP to get Navy issue ships or BPs and then sell the ships.

I know not the mathematical wizardry to determine what the ultimate ISK payout is by running for LPs and then selling off the rewards.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Omar Godsman
Rancid Chickens
#40 - 2013-06-21 18:37:15 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Throktar wrote:
What is it about someone doing their own thing and running missions that bothers you?
Aside from the fact that the way EVE is put together, the whole “do your own thing” doesn't really exist… nothing. The problem with missions is that their effort:reward is out of whack.

Quote:
Also, so what if they are making a lot of isk, what concern of that is yours?
It's a single economy. Any given activity spewing out ISK at an unreasonable rate is problematic.


But you are attacking the problem from the wrong angle because not every mission runner is able to get those time:isk ratio. The guy just starting lvl4 is not chunring them at breakneck speed in his faction fit pirate BS. The guy who just bough his 1st BS with only somewhat decent skill in a lvl 4 will no be breaking the bank at all. The real difference come from the fact that lvl 4 is the end level. Nobody really run lvl 3 in faction fit ship with perfect set of implants to maximise thier isk and thats why the income seems out of whack. How much could people really earn if they did put the effort to see what is the real upper limit of lvl 3 when chained and run at neckbreak speed in really optimised ship/fit.

Increase the spending people do on high level mission to do them optimally if you really want to nerf the income of high level runners. The LP store is probably the best palce for this since you can eliminate ISK from the game without impacting the lesser mission runner as much.



What even happened to lvl 5 missions???