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Do Level 4 missions pay too much compared to 1 through 3?

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Author
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#321 - 2013-09-01 13:08:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Quite sad. My father was an alcoholic who drank his life away and never loaned me anything. After watching my single mother struggle to pay the rent , fail, and have our stuff thrown out into the streets I began a career of crime while trying my best to stay on the straight and narrow. Somehow breaking free from the chains of poverty. I sympathize with your hours in the batting cages.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#322 - 2013-09-01 16:08:43 UTC
I wouldn't do missions now, they have been nerfed so much. And you want to nerf them more? Shocked

Signature removed - CCP Eterne

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#323 - 2013-09-01 23:00:59 UTC
There's a lot of these nerf high sec threads around of late. Thing is though, they all want to punish people for playing in high sec like their version of fun is the one true fun, and everyone else's is less legitimate. Thing is though high sec can exist nicely without low or null, null can't say the same.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#324 - 2013-09-01 23:04:37 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
There's a lot of these nerf high sec threads around of late. Thing is though, they all want to punish people for playing in high sec like their version of fun is the one true fun, and everyone else's is less legitimate. Thing is though high sec can exist nicely without low or null, null can't say the same.


Actually it's the opposite.
Marius Rousseau
Guardians of the Underworld
#325 - 2013-09-01 23:25:00 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
There's a lot of these nerf high sec threads around of late. Thing is though, they all want to punish people for playing in high sec like their version of fun is the one true fun, and everyone else's is less legitimate. Thing is though high sec can exist nicely without low or null, null can't say the same.


Actually it's the opposite.


Not true. You can get any null sec mineral in high sec by refining mission loot, null is not needed.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#326 - 2013-09-01 23:37:46 UTC
Marius Rousseau wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
There's a lot of these nerf high sec threads around of late. Thing is though, they all want to punish people for playing in high sec like their version of fun is the one true fun, and everyone else's is less legitimate. Thing is though high sec can exist nicely without low or null, null can't say the same.


Actually it's the opposite.


Not true. You can get any null sec mineral in high sec by refining mission loot, null is not needed.


IIRC there's no such thing as T2 mission loot. Even if there was, recycling a T2 mod only gets you minerals. The T2 components made from moongoo are generally extra materials, so you won't get them back from refining. There's also miscellaneous things like ORE BPOs only found in Outer Ring.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#327 - 2013-09-02 01:02:38 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
There's a lot of these nerf high sec threads around of late. Thing is though, they all want to punish people for playing in high sec like their version of fun is the one true fun, and everyone else's is less legitimate. Thing is though high sec can exist nicely without low or null, null can't say the same.


It's the same harpies who can't never have enough of hating.

I stopped doing L4 long ago, it's worthless.

Whining against L4 missions is like complaining that Somalia people earn too much compared to Congo's: useless as both are dirt poor and you have just to look a bit around to find vastly higher income pro capita nations.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#328 - 2013-09-02 01:08:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
There's a lot of these nerf high sec threads around of late. Thing is though, they all want to punish people for playing in high sec like their version of fun is the one true fun, and everyone else's is less legitimate. Thing is though high sec can exist nicely without low or null, null can't say the same.


It's the same harpies who can't never have enough of hating.

I stopped doing L4 long ago, it's worthless.

Whining against L4 missions is like complaining that Somalia people earn too much compared to Congo's: useless as both are dirt poor and you have just to look a bit around to find vastly higher income pro capita nations.



Indeed. Trade is where the wealth is in HiSEC. Missions are a good time passer and a backup method of recovering from a catastrophic loss. And of course a good way for new players to get their initial trading capital. But as a long term method for wealth generation?

Level 4's do have risks, enhancing your mission ship with better mods creates even greater risk and it's a time monopolizing activity for somewhat meager results. There is a point where lowering the income of missions makes it an exercise in tedium that in the end will leave a certain brand of player feeling hopeless & bored. Neither of which will bring an influx of players into NullSEC but off to a new game.

You can arbitrarily lower the income of HiSEC residents all you want it's not going to convince freethinkers and independents to come under the control of a fellow subscriber. What it will do though is lower the prices of all those NullSEC imports. Because with less income coming in people aren't going to give you more for the same items.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#329 - 2013-09-02 01:50:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Tippia wrote:
...stuff...


I can't even tell what you are arguing about with that guy, but I wanted to say I disagree with you.

Also... You do move goal posts.

PS

Doing defensive sites in FW with a frigate with 4 warp corp stabs can out do income in a L4.

And your probaly only risking a few million versus a few hundred million. Just don't fly with implants and busy systems.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#330 - 2013-09-02 03:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
There's a lot of these nerf high sec threads around of late. Thing is though, they all want to punish people for playing in high sec like their version of fun is the one true fun, and everyone else's is less legitimate. Thing is though high sec can exist nicely without low or null, null can't say the same.


It's the same harpies who can't never have enough of hating.

I stopped doing L4 long ago, it's worthless.

Whining against L4 missions is like complaining that Somalia people earn too much compared to Congo's: useless as both are dirt poor and you have just to look a bit around to find vastly higher income pro capita nations.


Pretty much this. The problem with these threads is that it usually involves the same few anti-"carebear"/anti-hi sec players sending people on wild goal post chases with misinformation and convoluted nonsense responses. You'll notice it's always the usual suspects spewing hate and elitism repackaged and labeled as "facts". And once you bite the troll you're sent on a wild goose chase. These threads only survive as long as they do because they rely on circular reasoning, which often includes making ridiculous claims to bait readers into responding.

These threads eventually die down only to resurface a few months later with the same snipers again taking pot shots.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#331 - 2013-09-02 03:08:09 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Also... You do move goal posts.


This from the guy who says it's immoral to make somebody feel bad about a video game and then turns around and admits to running "double your ISK" scams in Jita.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#332 - 2013-09-02 03:20:36 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Also... You do move goal posts.

This from the guy who says it's immoral to make somebody feel bad about a video game and then turns around and admits to running "double your ISK" scams in Jita.

Double your isk huh

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#333 - 2013-09-02 03:24:52 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Also... You do move goal posts.


This from the guy who says it's immoral to make somebody feel bad about a video game and then turns around and admits to running "double your ISK" scams in Jita.


Hrm.... I don't think that is moving goalposts as it is just being honest with myself and my own evil morality. Unlike some people who have hangups about what they do and they can't admit to it.

Also... I seem to have perma-trolled you into replying to all my posts. I am enjoying that immensely.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#334 - 2013-09-02 04:51:30 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Also... I seem to have perma-trolled you into replying to all my posts. I am enjoying that immensely.


You got a Goon to never stop posting. You are the Puppet Master.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#335 - 2013-09-02 05:13:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Rhes wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Also... I seem to have perma-trolled you into replying to all my posts. I am enjoying that immensely.


You got a Goon to never stop posting. You are the Puppet Master.


I would hope so. One might question the mental health of a person who lets issues with other people fester into such a state that makes them keep spewing forth from their word hoard even after the other person has let the issue drop. Can't be good for the blood pressure either.

But as long as I made you do it, then there isn't anything other to worry about as I am just a provocateur.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#336 - 2013-09-02 05:14:48 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
As long as I made you do it, then there isn't anything other to worry about.


If you were a tenth as clever as you think you are this would be much more enjoyable for me. Any way you can up your game?

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#337 - 2013-09-02 05:59:32 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
As long as I made you do it, then there isn't anything other to worry about.


If you were a tenth as clever as you think you are this would be much more enjoyable for me. Any way you can up your game?


Well... I am not doing it for your enjoyment.

Actually, I wrote a really long reply talking about the meta game in question and the parties involved, but then the browser ate it. I think it was most likley for the best because it really did give the game and the parties away and they'd realize they have to lock this thread which is a loss in the meta game. You have to say just enough but if they lock it then you lost. I most likley also gave away my alts involved in the goons so it was best I started over and rethink my text.

Part of the story was that actually I don't give a damn about morality and that I made up the part about being a scammer. It was written to incite, which it seems to have done its job.

Anyways, there is a subset of players belonging to "the agenda". These players are mad and jelous that other players who play contrary to the way they believe the game should played have any income at all. You can't reason with them because of their cognitive dissonance so the only option is something else other than reason. There I think I wrote this in a way that the thread won't get locked.

Thanks for playing EVE.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#338 - 2013-09-02 06:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I can't even tell what you are arguing about with that guy, but I wanted to say I disagree with you.
I'm arguing that, no, moon goo does indeed not provide better income than… well… anything really, and that L4s a far better income stream, even on a corp level. You can disagree all you want, but that just makes you wrong.

Quote:
Also... You do move goal posts.
Prove it.

Quote:
Anyways, there is a subset of players belonging to "the agenda". These players are mad and jelous that other players who play contrary to the way they believe the game should played have any income at all. You can't reason with them because of their cognitive dissonance so the only option is something else other than reason.
Indeed. This subset often goes by the name of highsec carebears. The only hope is to bombard them with facts until they run out of uninformed and disproven fantasies to throw around.

MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
The problem with these threads is that it usually involves the same few anti-"carebear"/anti-hi sec players sending people on wild goal post chases with misinformation and convoluted nonsense responses.
Do you have any examples of this misinformation or nonsense?
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#339 - 2013-09-02 06:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Lol. Thanks Tippia. You have made my night!

I was vague enough that you didn't get what I was saying.

Or you were oblivious.

Thanks for being the entertainment.

Good nigiht!

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#340 - 2013-09-02 07:06:52 UTC
Anyone able to use eve-search may check how in 2009-2011 me and another person called the real, back at the time "overpowered" (ISK wise) L4 missions for nerfs and more nerfs. Same stance was also put for incursions later.

I and expecially that other guy brought statistics and arguments solid enough that L4 missions got nerfed twice in that period.


So I may hardly be considered a "carebear defender".

But there's a time to fight and a time to reason.

A great man may adapt his opinions as reality changes, L4 used to be atrociously op but now they are just a "middle of the pack" ISK income. Reality changed over the years, adapt to it.

The whole argument should be finally be put to rest, anyone who still wants to keep kicking the beaten man curled on the floor is being intellectually dishonest and downright unfair.

L4s are fine now, if there's any kind of nerf that could still be applied to them is the blitzing. But blitzing involves risk since blitzing many missions involves getting full room aggro, including scramblers. So with risk has to come reward. Maybe not as much as now but still more than doing them the "straight way".