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New Players left out. Drones V is unfair.

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Anubis Joringer
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2013-06-23 05:52:10 UTC
Higgs Maken wrote:

Firstly for missile it's lock target, F1 and forget. For drone it's lock target, launch drone, attack target and monitor drone health. Which system seems working out of the box for you?


The ones that don't require a skill to use, i.e. all of them.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#142 - 2013-06-23 08:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
stoicfaux wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
UddWilliam wrote:

Maybe I don't make myself understood. See my example mentioned before. Vexor and Caracal are both available for trial accounts and they stand for two major ship types (drone boat and missile boat).

EVE is encouraging ship diversification. It means players can fight with the way he like. That's why we see ship rebalancing. That's why drake is nurfed, and we see new drone ship line like dragoon and new amageddon.

The key problem is that you can fit all your high slots with missile launchers with just 1 day skill training while drone boat need 1 week training to get the same effect. So players who choose drone boat (Vexor) as their initial LV2 mission boat is a bad choice because his effeicency in the first week is much worse than players who are using Caracal. Tristan has even worse situation. It's not because the ship is bad, but because the skill is designed in an imbalanced way.

OTOH, drones don't require much in the way of secondary skills, whereas guns/missiles do:
missiles: Target Navigation Prediction, Missile Projection, Rapid Launch, Warhead Upgrades, Guided Missile Precision (plus TP skills)

guns: Controlled Bursts, Motion Prediction, Rapid Firing, Sharpshooter, Surgical Strike, Trajectory Analysis (plus cap skills for non-projectile)

drones: Drone Durabilty, Drone Navigation, Drone Sharpshooting.




Combat Drone Operation. Drone Interfacing. Advanced Drone Interfacing.

Not sure I see your point.

Firstly, this is in the context of newbies getting the "most" out of their ships.

Combat Drone Operation == Gunnery == Missile Launcher Operation, which is why I left it out. Drone Interfacing I missed. Advanced Drone Interfacing is in the realm of T2 weapons, i.e. not applicable in the context of the "newbie" experience.

My point is that missile and gun ships need a lot of secondary skills to be effective. Drones on a drone bonused hull, on the other hand, work out of box with minimal skill training.


Wrong!

Drones = Gunnery = Missile Launcher Operation

Combat Drone Operation and Drone Interfacing are both supplemental skills just like Surgical Strike is for guns.

Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing adds range, just like Sharpshooting or Missile Projection.

Drone Navigation is a supplemental skill that doesn't have an analog in gunnery, but Trajectory Analysis is sort of similar.

Let's be frank: without Combat Drone Operation, your drones are going to be **** out of the box. No Drone Link Augmentors mean you also won't get much range out of your abysmally low-DPS drones.

You're simply wrong here. Decent drone boats require support skills just like missiles or any kind of guns on boats that get a bonus for those weapon systems.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#143 - 2013-06-23 09:23:32 UTC
Bl4ck Ph03n1x wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Quote:
New Players left out. Drones V is unfair.


No one ever promised that EVE was going to be fair. The odds are stacked against you, and you have to train to overcome them.

The Drones skill has functioned this way for the last decade. Training it to V like everyone else will enable people to field 5 drones.



There is a slight unbalance, though. A missile, laser, hybrid or projectile pilot can field all his guns at pew pew lvl1
A gallentean/ammar drone pilot need an additional skill to 5 to do the same.

But then we all know drones are broken for the last decade. Maybe, one day, a drone expansion...?

You mean... that i can shoot my autocannons at projectile 1 and do 2 dps... just like drones 1 will with its 2 dps?!

THE SHAME!!!

Christ it's probably faster to train into a solid droneboat with support skills than it is to train into a medium TII gun system

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."
Jeffrey Asher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2013-06-23 11:25:05 UTC
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
Bl4ck Ph03n1x wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Quote:
New Players left out. Drones V is unfair.


No one ever promised that EVE was going to be fair. The odds are stacked against you, and you have to train to overcome them.

The Drones skill has functioned this way for the last decade. Training it to V like everyone else will enable people to field 5 drones.



There is a slight unbalance, though. A missile, laser, hybrid or projectile pilot can field all his guns at pew pew lvl1
A gallentean/ammar drone pilot need an additional skill to 5 to do the same.

But then we all know drones are broken for the last decade. Maybe, one day, a drone expansion...?

You mean... that i can shoot my autocannons at projectile 1 and do 2 dps... just like drones 1 will with its 2 dps?!

THE SHAME!!!

Christ it's probably faster to train into a solid droneboat with support skills than it is to train into a medium TII gun system


Don't know about the T2 gun way of going from experience, but Drone 5/Scout 5 and the assorted add-on drone skills to 3 has been fairly quick, and I can lvl 3 mission in a Vexor with them doing most of the work. The time it took me to get there did not put me off in the slightest. I was equally crap with guns and drones when I started not long ago, so your point exactly.

Ain't seeing anything broken or unbalanced here. People still have guns to shoot when they only have Drone 1 too

The power to cause pain is the only power that matters, the power to kill and destroy, because if you can't kill then you are always subject to those who can, and nothing and no one will ever save you.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#145 - 2013-06-23 11:59:36 UTC
OP

Shut Up....

Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...
Chaibat
Amarr Cosa Nostra
#146 - 2013-06-23 12:34:36 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:
CCP should change the way the "Drones" skill works.

Set the base number of drones controllable to 5.

Have the skill just increase the damage by 20% per level.

It really feels bad to be a low SP player in a fleet with older players and only being able to launch two drones.


This is an emotional crisis for many new players.


Nicely done ::probing::
Manfred Hideous
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#147 - 2013-06-23 12:50:27 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Quote:
New Players left out. Drones V is unfair.


No one ever promised that EVE was going to be fair. The odds are stacked against you, and you have to train to overcome them.

The Drones skill has functioned this way for the last decade. Training it to V like everyone else will enable people to field 5 drones.



Please tell me you're not as dumb as everyone who thought OP was talking about drones.

/shoulda stayed at Kugu. ;)
Zeverin Madeveda
Doomheim
#148 - 2013-06-23 14:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeverin Madeveda
I give the op a 5/10. I will bite anyway tho. Fact remains...
Is it fair that a low sp pilot dies in a majority of pvp engagements?
Is it fair a noob miner makes tons of isk more then the noob running missions?
Is it fair most of null is owned by a select few?

NO!

But guess what eve is not fair and never will be. This is the beauty of eve.
Ken 1138
State War Academy
Caldari State
#149 - 2013-06-23 14:45:14 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:
CCP should change the way the "Drones" skill works.

Set the base number of drones controllable to 5.

Have the skill just increase the damage by 20% per level.

It really feels bad to be a low SP player in a fleet with older players and only being able to launch two drones.


This is an emotional crisis for many new players.


This and the ridiculous 3 weeks it takes to train up Jump Drive Operation 5.
Mytai Gengod
Sebees
#150 - 2013-06-23 14:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mytai Gengod
I believe it's taken me entirely too long to realize a significant portion of posts in the General Discussion are intended only to troll.

I try to give others the benefit of the doubt, but it appears this is abused regularly here. People earnestly arguing absurd position just to get a response or waste others times seems more common here than in other games and forums.

In any event, as a relatively new player who is only training Drones V after 4-5 months, it is perfectly fine as it is.
Skill Training Online
Doomheim
#151 - 2013-06-23 15:07:23 UTC
Mytai Gengod wrote:
I believe it's taken me entirely too long to realize a significant portion of posts in the General Discussion are intended only to troll.

I try to give others the benefit of the doubt, but it appears this is abused regularly here. People earnestly arguing absurd position just to get a response or waste others times seems more common here than in other games and forums.

In any event, as a relatively new player who is only training Drones V after 4-5 months, it is perfectly fine as it is.


First off it isn't an absurd position at all for consistency across all skills,

Secondly it wouldn't affect the balance of power... AT ALL.

Finally it would remove a pointless barrier preventing new players from integrating earlier in their careers rather than later.

The people who oppose this idea are the same who ***** and moan about people being in NPC corps for years.

Thank You Obama!
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#152 - 2013-06-23 15:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Skill Training Online wrote:

The people who oppose this idea are the same who ***** and moan about people being in NPC corps for years.


Ad-hominem detected.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
CCP Falcon
#153 - 2013-06-23 15:29:34 UTC
Manfred Hideous wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Quote:
New Players left out. Drones V is unfair.


No one ever promised that EVE was going to be fair. The odds are stacked against you, and you have to train to overcome them.

The Drones skill has functioned this way for the last decade. Training it to V like everyone else will enable people to field 5 drones.



Please tell me you're not as dumb as everyone who thought OP was talking about drones.


I do believe I may have successfully countered the original intention of this thread. Thankfully, very few people realized. Blink

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#154 - 2013-06-23 15:31:34 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
I do believe I may have successfully countered the original intention of this thread. Thankfully, very few people realized. Blink

Argument from Authority fallacy also detected.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#155 - 2013-06-23 15:41:49 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Manfred Hideous wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Quote:
New Players left out. Drones V is unfair.


No one ever promised that EVE was going to be fair. The odds are stacked against you, and you have to train to overcome them.

The Drones skill has functioned this way for the last decade. Training it to V like everyone else will enable people to field 5 drones.



Please tell me you're not as dumb as everyone who thought OP was talking about drones.


I do believe I may have successfully countered the original intention of this thread. Thankfully, very few people realized. Blink


Don't confuse the mouth breathers coming in from steam they may dock your paycheck.
Skill Training Online
Doomheim
#156 - 2013-06-23 15:45:55 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:

Don't confuse the mouth breathers coming in from steam they may dock your paycheck.


Steam Gamers are among the most elite gamer in all of gaming.

We have the achievements and time played to back it up.

Steam's played time on all Steam games exceeds all /played" on XBox Life and PSN combined.

Steam's achievement count is six times that of XBOX Live and twice that of PSN.

A steam gamer is an Alpha Gamer.

Thank You Obama!
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#157 - 2013-06-23 15:51:16 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:

Don't confuse the mouth breathers coming in from steam they may dock your paycheck.


Steam Gamers are among the most elite gamer in all of gaming.

We have the achievements and time played to back it up.

Steam's played time on all Steam games exceeds all /played" on XBox Life and PSN combined.

Steam's achievement count is six times that of XBOX Live and twice that of PSN.

A steam gamer is an Alpha Gamer.


This post emits a distinct sound of heavy mouth breathing and effeminate lisping.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#158 - 2013-06-23 16:10:53 UTC
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:

How did end up with 3k+ likes answering this way? I guess time to introduce downvoting.

It is actually YOUR responsibility to make game more convenient.

Please elaborate on your version of CCP Falcons job, because I'm fairly sure his job is to do what his employers ask and pay him to do, not what some random shiptoaster demands he do.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#159 - 2013-06-23 20:53:45 UTC
To be honest, all subcaps should only be able to use 1 drone (to reduce lag) and then carriers use 5 drones (max 10 with 5x drone controle units), and supercarriers use 10 drones (max 16 with 6x drone controle units)

and then adjust the drones themselves and skills related to make them equally strong as if you still had 5 drones, this includes the ehp and dps... then maybe buff them slightly in some way, since getting your drone killed would suck much more, and is much easier if it's only one, even with higher ehp.

but consider this... having a single drone that could take 5x more damage than currently before popping, will give you more time to save it...

the drone skill itself could be adding the basic adjustment that having the old 5x drones

like 100% more HP and 100% more DPS/EWAR/MINING per level...

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934