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Demographics VS CSM & Goons Are Masking CSM Issues

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-10-23 13:58:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Nope this is not a "I hate goons" Thread.
This is the exact opposite.



I know enough "Goons" to know that they are decent folks, and are exactly like everyone else in the game. The only thing that they do differently is embrace their "cold and dark universe evilness" to the point of (almost) being RP. People are stupidly blaming the Goons for the issues in the CSM, because they are buying into all of the "Anti-goon" drivel.

If it's not anti-BOB
It is anti-Russian
Or, it is anti-Goon.

But it is all the same...



The problems with the CSM have existed for a very long time. Everyone harping on the goons you are not actually making any sense, and in doing so you are also not helping your case. The issues with the CSM are the CSM's alone, and how CCP have allowed for exploitable voting practices in concert with no internal "demographic data gathering"




Demographics

EVE Online needs demographic oversight at the corporate level in Iceland. Professionals need to be gathering data and applying it to the game play, not just taking a few peoples word for it. We also need some mechanism that will allow CCP to collect this data, and I don't mean these garbage forums. We need poles, info on who lives where and why they are living there. EVE needs to be analyzed in a more scientific way in order to better it and take it into the next decade.


We do not need people buying a CSM seat with Plex's or large alliances exploiting a voting system with multiple accounts. We need much better CCP oversight of their own game and we need realistic goals and expansions based upon what the Demographics reveal about EVE Online.


All of the "I hate goon(dot)" whining is inevitable, because in the current CSM system you cannot hope to avoid political agendas and rivalries. People are only Human, there is no way to divide these things from the equation and it does far more harm then good... if for no other reason then harming CCP's already tarnished outward image in the eyes of it's player base.




/Post off.
Now commence flaming you insufferable piles of troll dung.

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Embrace My Hate
Bitmap Brothers
#2 - 2011-10-23 14:04:51 UTC
Pretty good read actually. If CCP isn't already compiling the information you suggested OP they should probably start doing so.
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-10-23 14:40:17 UTC
I have suggested many times that CCP create a "Research and Statistics" department. Another good idea is that, given how complex the EVE economy is, they may wish to employ a professional economist to keep track of it and advise them.

Oh well, maybe someday.

In the meantime, keep in mind that one purpose of the CSM is to provide an outside perspective that is relatively unaffected by he Reykjavik Reality Distortion Field, though I will admit they do try to get us to drink the Kool-Aid™ -- last time we were there they tried to sneak it into our coffee.

With respect to bias towards nullsec on the CSM, the solution to that is simple -- organize and get out the vote. If hisec voted at the same rate, and with the same focus, as nullsec, then more broad-based candidates would dominate the CSM.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-10-23 14:46:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
With respect to bias towards nullsec on the CSM, the solution to that is simple -- organize and get out the vote. If hisec voted at the same rate, and with the same focus, as nullsec, then more broad-based candidates would dominate the CSM.


Maybe you should go fly around empire and PM random people, just to see for yourself how many otherwise intelligent human beings have no idea even how to vote.


I get that it is a simple thing...
But it is not always so simple when dealing with multitudes, and that resulting failure all by it's lonesome, could potentially cost CCP a great deal of money (and headaches as we have seen) in the long run.



Quote:
keep in mind that one purpose of the CSM is to provide an outside perspective that is relatively unaffected by he Reykjavik Reality Distortion Field



Well Himlar seems to think that your "Outside Perspective" is far too one sided, and thus could serve to negatively effect EVE Online as a whole. More or less this is what the player base has been saying too, so I don't see that as being a plus by any stretch of the word.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-10-23 16:19:32 UTC
Weird, thread was moved with no moderator notification.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-10-23 16:40:17 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Reykjavik Reality Distortion Field, t


Is this another product of "The Device"?

Stuff Goes here
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-23 21:18:25 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Maybe you should go fly around empire and PM random people, just to see for yourself how many otherwise intelligent human beings have no idea even how to vote.


The message is rammed down their throat from various angles when voting time rolls around. If they are somehow incapable of figuring out the process even with flashing neon signs telling them how, they really don't count as 'otherwise intelligent human beings' and its better for all concerned that they don't attempt to vote in case they somehow physically damage themselves in the process.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-10-23 21:40:34 UTC
If I realized that a focused campaign of terror against miners (rather than a diffuse one, a la the original Jihadswarm or Hulkageddon) would result in this maelstrom of suffering and angsty emo threads spouting GSF-related conspiracies, I'd have done it years ago.

Oh well, best to make up for lost time!

~hi~
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-10-24 01:50:32 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Maybe you should go fly around empire and PM random people, just to see for yourself how many otherwise intelligent human beings have no idea even how to vote.

During the elections, I visited every hisec system in about 10 regions and posted in local. I had a lot of conversations with people. The bottom line is, if you think lack of hisec representation is a problem, you have to make sure everyone in your corp is voting, and convince your out-of-corp friends to spread the word.

I'll be happy to provide you with some self-serving boilerplate next election. When it comes to whoring for votes, I'm shameless.

Quote:
Well Himlar seems to think that your "Outside Perspective" is far too one sided, and thus could serve to negatively effect EVE Online as a whole. More or less this is what the player base has been saying too, so I don't see that as being a plus by any stretch of the word.

Bad case of kill-the-messenger, IMHO. CSM has been saying pretty much the same thing about CCP's overall strategic direction for a long time. I refer you to the infamous CSM5 open letter, which many of the CSM6 noobs ridiculed during the election campaign, but now -- quibbling about tactics aside -- acknowledge was pretty much dead-on.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery
Roldanus
Black Anvil Industries
#10 - 2011-10-24 05:27:15 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Nope this is not a "I hate goons" Thread.
This is the exact opposite.



I know enough "Goons" to know that they are decent folks, and are exactly like everyone else in the game. The only thing that they do differently is embrace their "cold and dark universe evilness" to the point of (almost) being RP. People are stupidly blaming the Goons for the issues in the CSM, because they are buying into all of the "Anti-goon" drivel.

If it's not anti-BOB
It is anti-Russian
Or, it is anti-Goon.

But it is all the same...



The problems with the CSM have existed for a very long time. Everyone harping on the goons you are not actually making any sense, and in doing so you are also not helping your case. The issues with the CSM are the CSM's alone, and how CCP have allowed for exploitable voting practices in concert with no internal "demographic data gathering"




Demographics

EVE Online needs demographic oversight at the corporate level in Iceland. Professionals need to be gathering data and applying it to the game play, not just taking a few peoples word for it. We also need some mechanism that will allow CCP to collect this data, and I don't mean these garbage forums. We need poles, info on who lives where and why they are living there. EVE needs to be analyzed in a more scientific way in order to better it and take it into the next decade.


We do not need people buying a CSM seat with Plex's or large alliances exploiting a voting system with multiple accounts. We need much better CCP oversight of their own game and we need realistic goals and expansions based upon what the Demographics reveal about EVE Online.


All of the "I hate goon(dot)" whining is inevitable, because in the current CSM system you cannot hope to avoid political agendas and rivalries. People are only Human, there is no way to divide these things from the equation and it does far more harm then good... if for no other reason then harming CCP's already tarnished outward image in the eyes of it's player base.




/Post off.
Now commence flaming you insufferable piles of troll dung.


Just watch this Space Ghost Coast to Coast. We will understand many of the things you posted between Goons and CSM.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-10-30 00:25:42 UTC
* Sneezes.

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StarTrotter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-10-30 02:52:31 UTC
This issue is as simple as, "They killed me, thats not fair". Does the fact that Mittani is leader of the CSM make much difference?

I just wonder what would happen if he had done this when not in the CSM, the whines would be just as consistent. I just hope that CCP don't make any foolish decisions like simultaneously ruining the sandbox concept and annoying a large percentage of the player base.

Goons aren't that hard to get into anyway. If you cant beat them, join them?
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#13 - 2011-10-31 16:07:23 UTC
StarTrotter wrote:
This issue is as simple as, "They killed me, thats not fair". Does the fact that Mittani is leader of the CSM make much difference?

I just wonder what would happen if he had done this when not in the CSM, the whines would be just as consistent. I just hope that CCP don't make any foolish decisions like simultaneously ruining the sandbox concept and annoying a large percentage of the player base.

Goons aren't that hard to get into anyway. If you cant beat them, join them?


Ye last I heard it only costs about a 100M ? With a bit of hardcore Ice mining u should get that together in no time.

I hear Gallente space is the place to be for that.