Science & Industry

Oh yes, 10-20 seconds extra time to react to a threat makes no difference at all. WTF have you been smoking. 5 seconds makes a difference. 10 seconds gives you a fighting chance. 20 seconds makes you safe, or at least safe enough to mine in a MAX yield HULK.

Small sov empires, NPC null, and low sec are affected by this even more than W-space dwellers.

I'm not referring to reaction time to a threat but the time it takes afk/idling miners to actually notice a neutral entering system. Yes obviously more time to react to a threat you know about is going to be better, but if a miner or someone in your fleet of miners hasn't noticed a threat in local in the first 10 seconds of them showing up, chances are they wouldn't have noticed in another 10 seconds. The gains that were made from the increases in ore far outweigh the minor loss in security that was gained from a few seconds of possible warning you may have had if you were paying attention. And there is no loss to security for those who are willing to deal with the occasional loss in cheap fitted barges.

I don't get it tbh.

Even with those changes, gankers will need at least some 40 seconds from popping up in local to being on grid with you, most likely longer - which is still a totally sufficient time for anyone to yell 'dock up, dock up' in any adequate channel. Besides that, if you are as example afraid of cloaky gankers, why not go with a 08/15-trap and take a small bubble (tech I) and abandon a bunch of ec-300s. Or park an alt in a falcon, always wonder why people don't do that. Or dock up if blob next door.

In terms of wormhole mining - it is now exactly as safe as running combat anomalies. Probably less because there are no sleepers to protect you. But even here creativity is rewarded, afk mining is not.

I don't see how they totally goofed that one. Would be great if they could unsafe the complexes aswell.

Aww, so you people are beginning to understand that mining is a harsh profession? Real miners have known it for a long time

Now stop whining about the changes you pussies screamed for, mine or don't mine...just stop crying all the time

It is the mega corperations that are responsible for this blatent and rediculous addition to EvE, those elected to the CSM positions this year botched Odyssey and ruined industry for the benefit of empires and alliances that need no more additional power and money.

Greed and corruption are reigning down on EvE this year, and even though industry needed a bit of toning down, making gravimeteric sites that any two bit ganker (which they all are really) can warp to on a whim anywhere, anytime, with no scan training was not just a mistake, but it absolutely crippled anyone who had an entrepenuers drive to go fourth into null/low/WH and stake a claim.

It needs to be fixed, and i'm going to keep this post open until someone consults the issue and considers undoing what obviously CCP allowed a labotomized monkey to change.

If you don't understand why that was bad for industry, you are either not a miner, or your too stupid to play EvE.

I am used to dealing with children, so i'll break it down for you. I understand that you don't know what critical thinking is, or what the actual word 'whine' means. However, because I actually have a valid complaint, all of what you just said above was nothing more then the tears of an angry child. I know what warp bubbles are, mmmkay sweety? I also understand that you live in nullsec which means you are part of a corperation or alliance that can provide security for you, which pretty much means what CCP did does not affect you because your deep inside allied space where you can be coddled and protected by your friends. However, you must understand that you do not speak for 'most' people on this server, and you can barely speak for yourself. I know chanting the word 'whine' makes you feel grown up and like your in on the conversation, but please just try to stay in your lane and only engage in conversations that you plan on actually contributing too or at least offering alternative ways to mine that arent obsurd, costly require permanently coordination, or multiple accounts, or just plane a waste of time. I know thats difficult for you to grasp, but bare with me.

The way that it was should have never been changed, and even you can comprehend that, if you disagree then you should offer a reason (logical) as to why it shouldent be changed, if you agree, then be quiet and go ahead and go back to huddling with your toddler friends in nullsec. Don't bother speaking because I won't read anything your going to say from now on, I will skip your posts, as they do nothing but fish around to see if you can get tears. Keep trollin' trollin' trollin'.

Hmmmm. Thinking about it some more, I honestly can't see what the adaptation strategy is for this. In null, if you're in non-alliance null that is, or if you run ninja-ops, you have to fall back on local. That's good or bad depending on whether you get to know the locals. Certainly means you'll spend a lot of time in GTFO mode. So that's not good. But then to be honest it was never that good anyway, compared to relatively stress free ISK earning possibilities elsewhere.

As far as WH mining is concerned, you're totally screwed. No day-tripping. Only the WH corps can really do it now. Otherwise, it's just down to luck. I guess CCP must have queried the DB to find out how many this would affect it came out as quite a small number.

Are the people in this thread complaining about the changes used to mining with fleet support (ie Rorqual/Orca boosts)?

I'm seeing at least three categories of people here - those who ninja mine in space they don't control, those that only control a small amount of space and have difficulty securing it, and those who live in WHs who may fall into one of the above categories.

These are balanced by the people who DO live in space they control as a result of being part of a larger coalition, who DO protect their assets via on-grid countermeasures and off-grid intel, and those who have adapted nicely.

It seem very clear that the change was detrimental to mining in general outside of hisec, but is the adaptation really that severe? The proposals from the other side seem to summarize to "I can't mine solo anymore because people kill me too quickly or I spend all day docked up."

This seems to be really a case of not being in a large enough organization to control your environment.

Was putzing around Providence the other day and came across an industrial index level V system - complete with warp bubbles, guards picketed outside and inside the gates, and actual atk personnel. They noticed me in system, told me to leave, and had the ability to enforce that request had I non complied.

I don't see what's so hard about setting up that sort of a system - if one is wanting to reap the benefits of all the rarer and more valuable materials that are outside of protected spaces.

Yes this does put more high-ends in the hands of the larger groups - but they had the majority of them anyways. Now people who are unorganized or unwilling to create a coalition to seize those rewards are getting cut out due to the barriers to entry. Seems to be working as intended.

CCP Fozzie says mining in lowsec is increased.

Low-sec industrialist here, confirming that this is spot-on:



But if you want to believe that low-sec mining is impossible, please don't let me stop you - I like having the sites and belts all to myself.