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Why We Should Support Off Grid Boosting
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Nikolai Lachance
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-06-20 17:57:23 UTC
I'm really enjoying how most people appear to be missing the very obvious irony and sarcasm dripping off of the original post.

I also love how hysterical some people are getting about the suggestion that making some ships unable to provide their massive benefits without any risk makes them completely useless and that EVE players are so risk averse that they won't use these ships anymore. It's like suggesting no one would ever try to transport PLEX in a frigate.

I feel that no one inside a POS shield should be able to participate in boosting activities in their fleet. That means if they are a designated booster they do nothing; if they are a squad/wing/fleet leader they pass no boosts, and if none of these, they receive no boosts. You want Rorqual boosts? Great. Figure out how to defend it.

I don't necessarily think off-grid boosting should be eliminated, but I do think there should be incentives to boosting on-grid, such as having on-grid boosts be more effective (or conversely, make off-gird boosts less effective). Also, activating boosting modules should run the weapons timer, and various flags should pass to boosting ships in fleet. However, I'm not sure how this flag passing mechanic would work since boosting isn't something that requires a target. But, I'm sure someone could figure it out.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#42 - 2013-06-20 18:13:53 UTC
Nikolai Lachance wrote:
You want Rorqual boosts? Great. Figure out how to defend it.



Until a Rorqual has the offensive capabilities of a dred or a carrier, it is pointless to have it in a belt.

For every pilot you have sitting there "defending" it, you lose millions of isk/hour.

Make your fantasy defense fleet 3 or more ships, and the Rorqual becomes irrelevant, simply because you could have those 3 ships sit in their own mining vessels and wind up making more isk/hour without the boosts. Once again, the Rorq would be rendered to POS duty, unless you intend to remove the industrial module completely, which would remove all usability beyond storage.

Risking a billion isk worth of mining vessels that have an align/warp time that is somewhere this side of a year and half is far more profitable than risking 3billion+ of Rorqual for lower yield because you have another billion isk worth of PvP ships sitting doing nothing.

Profit favors the prepared
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2013-06-20 18:22:24 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:



Until a Rorqual has the offensive capabilities of a dred or a carrier, it is pointless to have it in a belt.



Battle Rorquals are a real thing. The problem is PLBlink
Tomba
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-06-20 18:24:37 UTC
The solution to off grid alt boosting is quite simple.

On grid self boosting for everyone else...

Tomba
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#45 - 2013-06-20 18:30:57 UTC
Nikolai Lachance wrote:
I'm really enjoying how most people appear to be missing the very obvious irony and sarcasm dripping off of the original post.


I didn't miss it.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-06-20 19:26:56 UTC
Boosting off-grid, or not at all.

GTFO blob noobs.
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-06-20 19:29:44 UTC
Lots of people in this thread are equating OGB with POS-boosting. Just sayin'.

Of course those same people are too stoopit to understand the meaning of the word "equate" so w/e.

OGB is fine. POS-boosting must diaf.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-06-20 19:30:27 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
ITT: Lots of people who haven't read the OP. And by "read" I really mean "understood", I'm just being polite.


Just goes to show how smart the people arguing about OGBs are. Enough reason for CCP to ignore them IMO.
SpoonRECKLESS
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#49 - 2013-06-20 19:49:36 UTC
You want to fix off grid boosting. Step one only allow t3s to off grid boost for pvp . Step two. Give only 3 to 4% boost compared to commnd ships.3 give penitlies to t3 boosting like big sigs for probing out easy. Make command ships give great wonderfull boost only on grid. I see why people hate it but I see how important this is for pvp. larger gangs cant over power the smaller better fc gang when they have boost.I get the so called "soloer" who uses off grid booster. Make it hard for them make the t3 stick out like a fat moon on probes.Also dont allow pvp links be boosting inside a pos shield.Only the mining links should be able to do it.Then again I may be wrong with my ideas just my input.Smile

Blue
Adunh Slavy
#50 - 2013-06-20 19:57:40 UTC
SpoonRECKLESS wrote:

Step one ...



Step one, devise an idea that can be coded in such a way as to not create lag that also does not kill off fleet boosting. Adding more variables fails step one.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Mistress Lilu
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-06-20 19:58:49 UTC
Look at all the toons in big blobby blob corps/alliances saying OGB should be killed.
I do not think anyone in their right mind, who does small gang pvp, will agree to getting rid of OGB, even for solo people who take on gangs that outnumber them 3v1 or more.
As I have stated, this is a push from the big alliances and corps that can field 50+ or 200+ gangs to push links to ongrid.
What a joke that is.
When small gang pvp'ers go agains the odds, they need the little advantage that is provided by the links, just like the BLOBS HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF FIELDING 50+ WITH, 10 LOGI AND 4 OR 5 ECM SHIPS.
Take your head out of the ground. For those who say, links are not solo, gtfo, any adtvantage that does not provide ECM or DPS is considered solo, if thats your argument, than go to battle nude, no boosts, no drugs, no faction mods.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#52 - 2013-06-20 20:08:21 UTC
Mistress Lilu wrote:
Look at all the toons in big blobby blob corps/alliances saying OGB should be killed.
I do not think anyone in their right mind, who does small gang pvp, will agree to getting rid of OGB, even for solo people who take on gangs that outnumber them 3v1 or more.
As I have stated, this is a push from the big alliances and corps that can field 50+ or 200+ gangs to push links to ongrid.
What a joke that is.
When small gang pvp'ers go agains the odds, they need the little advantage that is provided by the links, just like the BLOBS HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF FIELDING 50+ WITH, 10 LOGI AND 4 OR 5 ECM SHIPS.
Take your head out of the ground. For those who say, links are not solo, gtfo, any adtvantage that does not provide ECM or DPS is considered solo, if thats your argument, than go to battle nude, no boosts, no drugs, no faction mods.

I like how the 50+ man gang somehow forgot to add +1 booster alt.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Draconic Slayer
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#53 - 2013-06-20 20:15:40 UTC
All these people saying "on grid or not at all" are just people who aren't able to use them because they either lack the skills to do it or the ISK to buy the ships/modules needed. OGB is fine, but I agree with the idea to make it so that the activation of the warfare link modules blooms your signature radius.
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-06-20 20:19:19 UTC
Getting rid of OGB only benefits those who can gather up enough logi to support the links = Large corps/alliances.
Leaving OGB benefits everyone..
Leave it be and concentrate on balancing ECM, something CCP has been ignoring for a long time.
Solhild
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-06-20 20:24:01 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Benjen Gelade wrote:
The funny thing is, whilst you were trying to frame the '1,2,3' scenario as totally unfair and unjust, with only the mentally sick thinking it is a realistic way for battles to work, I actually thought it made perfect sense....

I guess I better get my head examined

It's like asking CCP to make doomsday damage scale with the amount of people in your fleet. It's that bad of an idea.

But of course everyone has his own agenda so I doubt I'll be changing the minds of people who would actively benefit from this stupid proposed change.


Agree, and a great initial point too.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-06-20 20:26:58 UTC
Mr M wrote:
No, you're wrong. No risk, no gain. No boosting ship on grid, no boost.



This.

OGB mechanics make it so people have Faction/mindlinks fitted toons/T3's full of T2 links kissing the POS with 0 risk loosing it while directly boosting fights and thus a game changer but with absolutely no risk at all.

Mining is a whole other story because Rorkal is plain bad for doing anything else than compress **** sit at a pos or stay dock, take the system wide links away from it and there will be no point on using Rorkals, the exception could still be made for Rorkal mining links only I would care less about this, wouldn't make a change at all for high sec miners anyway.

OGB has to go away or nerf to the ground and beyond.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#57 - 2013-06-20 20:28:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeus Maximo
I support Offgrid boosting for all of the professions in eve.

Leadership skills are extremely unique in the sense that only 2 ship types require them. Furthermore a good boosting alt has a minimum of 10,000,000 SP in just leadership. Those skills dont help you defend yourself, they dont make you go faster, and they sure as hell dont make you invincible. They just allow you to better to help a FLEET. Leadership skills are so out of the way the average pilot doesn't even train them......

CCP should leave boosting alone all together. What other mods in eve are so unique that in order to function properly they have to be trained for 2 years?

Don't punish the people that went out of their way to get a leadership alt.

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-06-20 20:32:17 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Mr M wrote:
No, you're wrong. No risk, no gain. No boosting ship on grid, no boost.



This.

OGB mechanics make it so people have Faction/mindlinks fitted toons/T3's full of T2 links kissing the POS with 0 risk loosing it while directly boosting fights and thus a game changer but with absolutely no risk at all.

Mining is a whole other story because Rorkal is plain bad for doing anything else than compress **** sit at a pos or stay dock, take the system wide links away from it and there will be no point on using Rorkals, the exception could still be made for Rorkal mining links only I would care less about this, wouldn't make a change at all for high sec miners anyway.

OGB has to go away or nerf to the ground and beyond.


People do loose link ships you know..
They are probable, there's no such thing as a ship that can not be probed. With the new probing updates, it is much easier to probe people these days. Your argument holds no value, now go back to that little cave and hide.
Termin Aurilo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-06-20 20:36:44 UTC
Is this topic something ccp is taking a look at and thinking of changing? or just something ppl are asking to be changed?
Leper ofBacon
HELP GRANDMA SMASH HER LEGS IN
#60 - 2013-06-20 20:46:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Leper ofBacon
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Those skills dont help you defend yourself, they dont make you go faster, and they sure as hell dont make you invincible. They just allow you to better to help a FLEET. Leadership skills are so out of the way the average pilot doesn't even train them......


If you're using an alt to boost then the skills are doing precisely this. They are increasing the statistics of the ship(s) that are actually in combat. What is 10m sp really worth in terms of isk (the only measure that matters)? Nothing significant.

OGB is in the game and the pay to win model is also already in, but it really should be moderated. Allow it to be an advantage but give players tools to detect and counter it.

Also although the economic reasons for keeping it are good, making changes to increase accessibility are also valuable for the same reason. Where OGB is truly sticking out is the 'low resource' pvp types like FW where casual play is suffering. If we're talking about 0.0 just bringing more material and balancing numerically imbalanced engagements is more important.