Player Features and Ideas Discussion

and what is with the usage of nos against NPCs? Will you still get cap from them?

People. Really. Hate reading. Don't they?

It was said in the first couple of pages that the usage of NOS against NPCs will not change.

lets not forget to add a t1 MWD also, that 25% reduction in cap will do wonders for abusing the new NOS mechanic.

Thank you gentlemen!

I really kind of hate it when people say this, but I put this proposition forward a couple of years ago pretty much word for word. My main problem was that nobody could make the mental distiction between relative cap percentage and relative raw cap amount.

All tricks aside, in basic terms this change will mean the following.

If you are in a larger ship and want protection from tacklers, stick with a neut.

If you are in a small ship and want to remain in close but cap stable, stick with a NOS.

Larger ships will rarely have less raw cap available than a smaller vessel (though there are clever ways around that), so a Nos is of little use to them vs tacklers... but excellent against same size or larger (caps).

Smaller ships will almost always have less raw cap available than a larger ship (often their target), so a NOS will usually be an excellent choice for them as it sustains them while still weakening their larger target.

In the case of a Curse or Pilgrim you'll need to make some choices, depending on what you want to be most effective against... or fit both NOS and Neuts to maintain flexibility (but reduced effectiveness). I think that considering their standard uses these two vessels are put to you will see Curses stick to running mainly Nuets, while Pilgrims will tend to run NOS to enhance their ambush tackle and grind them down role. Exceptions will exist of course.

NOS will now make running a MWD a much more attractive option for a tackler, as previously a NOS was a very undependable beast to have mounted. Even against a larger target you could still easily have a higher percentage of cap, rendering the NOS useless. Now, however, if tackling a larger target (or any target that is neuting your cap) the NOS will be very, very helpful and reliable.

I'll have to take a closer look at the Dragoon now, as I think it may help bring them up to a more effective level... but I think that will depend of if the module fitting requirements stay the same.

All in all, I couldn't be happier... and Curse/Pilgrim/Dragoon/Bhaalgorn (and it's smaller siblings) pilots throughout the game should give you a big thumbs up.

This change is **** , don't push it. I really like many changes , many odyssey changes were great (except exploration). But here we don't have fix for nos. We just have nos buff for minmatar ships alone as they always start fight with less cap amount compared to amarrian, gallente ships.

We don't need fix NOW. We can wait , but i'm pretty sure that Devs can come up with solution that will be benefit slasher with NOS as it will benefit Executioner with NOS. As it is now , ships with bigger cap pool will hate this change. And Losematar will welcome it as any other undeserved buff they receive now or in future.

Seeing your description i can add one thing mate. There is time when it's not tears. Devs ask now if we like change or not. It's time to post , as you cannot outproduce , outfight ... whatever.

After change going live if someone will complain it will be too late tho. Because they can now prevent this disasterous change from going live.

You explain how this works , but actually i see you don't know how it works. Or you lack knowledge about fittings of many ships.

Let me put one example : Rifter cap amount (one of candidates to put nos in his utility high) - 250 (base amount before skills etc)
And Punisher cap amount (also can use nos - but probably wont with changes like that) - 400.

Now if you don't see those nos changes being more beneficial to Rifter (and other minmatar ships like RFF or slasher) then stop posting in this thread.

You were saying like frigate is frigate, destroyer is destroyer, cruiser is cruiser. No my dear friend you are VERY WRONG. Amarr ships as race advantage got bigger cap pool (hardly can call it advantage when we need to shoot lasers but whatever)
, Minmatar - everything (except maybe maybe cap pool) - be it sig radius, speed, versatility etc.
Now we are on edge of devaluation Amarr race "advantage".

Now let me explain WHY I'M RIGHT. If you think this is how it is supposed to work then why webs don't slow only ships that are faster than you ? And no slow at all if they are not ? Oh sorry it would be bad for Minmatar - sorry for ever mentioning it.
Or another example TP only increase sig radius if target got less sig radius than yours. Oh sorry it would hurt minmatar most. As always anything that ***** on amarr race goes through without opposition.

BUT NOT THIS TIME.

Cap hungry lasers ? Yes
NOS - not every ship got utility high (tormentor, omen, maller , abaddon etc) , so invalid argument
Cap boosters ? How i'm supposed to fit cap booster on punisher ? On slicer ? On Coercer ? On Dragoon ?
Hell it's even hard to fit it on 3 mid ships as it is always hard choice to give up web (tho we are only race who has to give up anything here).

So yeah cap hungry lasers yes, but no NOS - it will be terribad mod for amarr ships (except dunno maybe ewar ships). No cap boosters - we got no mid slots for this fancy stuff.

And to prove i'm not just crying here what i would like to see:

Keep nos as it is but reduce req fittings. Atm it consumes huge amount of pwg and cpu , while it doesnt give much in return.
Reduce cycle time by 50% also. It will be useful module, commonly used .

Let me simplify this for you.

Amarr have more cap before the fight begins.
Amarr have far less cap moments after the fight starts.

Nobody cares how big your cap pool is before a fight.

What is the easiest way for Minmatar (or any ship really) to kill most Amarr vessels? Remove it's cap.
What keeps this from happening? Cap Injectors or (especially if you can't fit a cap injector) NOS.

By the way this change benefits the frigate and destoyer classes you mentioned, particularly those that burn a lot of cap, FAR more than any other classes.

Stop putting projectile weaponry on your Amarr ships. If you're clever you'll be able to run those lasers now.

Stop basing your opinion on EFT fittings, try using the ships in question in combat when they hit the test server.

I've used NOS (and Nuets) on ships of every race, both looooong before the NOS nerf and after (especially on the Pilgrim and Curse). I can say with complete confidence that the race that will benefit most from this change will be the Amarr, followed closely by the Gallante.

I'm pretty sure it won't take you long (in practice) to figure out the same thing.

Why just not have it work against any ship as long as it has cap? Level restrictions makes no sense

You have to give CCP credit...

They came up with the one idea that simultaneously buffs NOS's for use in frigates where they're already popular due to their low cycle times and relative cap drain to fitting.

...while at the same time nerfing them for the large ships where they are not used at all due to weak drain, obnoxious fitting, and long cycle times....none of which were addressed with the change AT ALL.

Do you guys just see that no one is using NOS's and come up with the one idea that doesn't address any of the underlying issues or do you actually ask the player base why they're not fitting them?