Player Features and Ideas Discussion

10k isk small NOS on a frigate can drain all day long on a BS
250m isk deadspace A NOS on a BS can't cap a single GJ from a frigate

Yep, sounds balanced.

I don't think it will, really. Drain amounts and fitting requirements are unchanged, meaning that the ability of frigate Nos to defend against hostile neuting is pretty much unchanged.

There are some occasions where it would help, such as a case where a frigate is cap-stable at full cap recharge with a nos, but unstable at lower cap levels where it has lower cap regen, with absolute Nos making it more common that the Nos kicks in at a higher cap level. But really, how common is this? When people use Nos on frigates, they're generally using it as defence against neuting, and the ability of even a single med neut to nuke a frigate's cap means there won't be much difference in practice between percentage Nos and absolute Nos - in both cases the frigate's cap is lower enough for its Nos to activate.

And worse, if you do move to absolute Nos, then it's very tricky to fix Nos in its neut-defence role by increasing drain amounts, because of the extreme range of effectiveness of Nos relationships between different ship sizes and the ability of Nos to be used offensively against larger ships. It's a balancing cul-de-sac.

If the answer is absolute Nos, I have no idea what the question is. It certainly isn't "How do we make Nos of all sizes genuinely useful?", or "How do we help Nos in its established role as a counter to neuts?".

Realistic power drain --

same as Neutralizers (modification of same basic mechanism) except you get to keep % of neutralized energy
and running them when your own cap is full should cause OVERHEAT

(1) Should not be 100% efficient. 10 units lost by enemy might only deliver 4 units to NOS user

(2) NOS modules should require energy themselves regardless of successful drain.
Say 1 unit for small, 2 units for medium and 4 units for heavy.

Basically running NOS on completely drained target should be like running shield booster on 100% shields...a net loss of cap to NOS user jsut to maintain the status quo.

Also if you have no cap you should not be able to start NOS modules to fill up. If you want to make it complicated... perhaps NOS modules have direct cap use priority right behind warp engines (regen goes direct before it can be drained from storage) -- but many ships would not be able to run all NOS if neauting is keep ing cap storage drained.

(3) Due #1 and #2 above - remove the silly can't drain target lower than your own cap level. Realistically instead of a simple virtual wire and one way diode between the two caps there is probably a "voltage" boosting circuit in the NOS module to make the target cap appear to have higher energy levels than your own cap even when it doesn't.

Voltage multipers are real life technology today. So it would seem in EVE that once you drain any energy you can boost its apparent energy level-density (compress it if you will) before storing it in your cap.

(4) But when your cap is full where does all that stolen energy go?
I suggest NOS difference is more OVERHEAT points

(5) and of course NOS unti should be far less effective at target cap neut than plain neutralizers of same size. I would suggest only 66% of drain or maybe 75% for high meta.

Rebalancing NOS would be very simple with this new NOS model. Just adjust (1) amount neutralized (2) efficiency and (3) fitting cap use of various meta levels.

How about making NOS energy taken immune to Neutralizer. Or the NOS energy absorb redirect it to modules so that the specific module cannot be interrupted.

in that case. how bout the duration is adjustable

ITT: people whining that their battleships can't drain from frigates after this

Why should a battleship, a ship class of immense size and power, be able to drain a frigate's cap completely? Stop whining. Just because you fly a battleship does not mean they need to be overpowered compared to every other ship class, ffs.

I support this change.

NOS other BS and caps.

How many BS/BC use a nos in PvP/PvE? Might be 1% and that also in PvE. So I do not think it would harm. BC/BS will still use Neuts. I for one support the change.

I do on a few hulls. Reasoning to nerf something is justified because only a small number of people use it is hilarious, while nearly every tackle frig in low sec uses a nos today, for the simple reason that it provides the ability to keep tackle and speed up under neuts. The only difference with that changes would be that it now becomes abusable again, exactly the same reason why it got nerfed in the first place.

So why should a buff for a module that is already very often used and useful for some ship(frigs), that changes nothing outside fittings that abuse the change(by fitting a lot of nos again) while nerfing it into ground for BCs and BS where it is rarely used today as it is, because it is not powerful enough to provide enough cap for active tanks to make a difference and doesn't help vs small ships at all(different to neuts) is a good change?

Couldn't agree more. Even without this change nerfing heavy NOS's, they're still less useful than their frigate equivalent due to the amount drained not scaling to BS's well at all and for what amount of modules they can sustain while under neuting pressure. The very best heavy NOS's can't even sustain 2 tachyon turrets firing which is about 25% of many Amarr ship's firepower whereas the best small NOS can sustain 2.5 of the most cap hungry small beam lasers which is the vast majority of the frigates firepower or all of it in some cases. Also, the best heavy NOS can't sustain a 100MN AB whereas the best small NOS can more than sustain a 1MN AB.