EVE General Discussion

TEST doesn't even put up their own sbus in fountain, they make their nc. Pets do out for them.

Kind sir, your, errrm....7 kills show me you will deny VFK to Mittens and Ze Gewns, that for shure. Your activity since 2006 is a great inspiration for us. Like i said to Harry, we gonna cya in a week in VFK.
PS.
Dont forget to NOT spend a lot for ammo. Thrashers die fast.

I suspect that killing a cnyo ship is not so much an attack on the goons and having any great effect on their overall operations.


It's an attack on the individual goon, and his stats. Getting repeatedly boinked out there in space is not going to sit well with the individual who may be concerned with his future in Eve.


So the goons, I suspect, are acting along the lines of sticking up for each other, one of their selling points.


But this, given a little work and further experimentation, is going to be a liability for them.


Any large state, as we learn from history, is easily de-legitimized when it gets hung up on it's own glorious doctrines.


If you can't kill a battle tank, the road it needs to travel on is much easier to take out...

the truth is, I would engage in even fights, but the goons don't want to undock anything below a tengu when I'm there... I'm honestly at a loss with those guys... one on one seems to scare them alot...

As a logi pilot: Yes, that would be nice - if only to shut up people that are putting too much value into killboard stuff.



That is true. Goons and many others in the CFC don't care about their killboard, they don't care about ~elite pvp~, they don't care about giving fair fights as they are pointless. It's really fun to see all the tears from the pvp crowd when you drop a full fleet for a 10 man gang. Remember: When you find yourself in a fair fight in eve, either you or your opponent did something wrong.

I could imagine that dropping a fleet on a small or medium gang would be irritating to people who want stats or value the so-called "fair fight".


But they are working on an older generation of warfare. We are promoting a new concept, asymmetric warfare. The expectation of getting blobbed in an exercise of overkill is part of the goal you see.


We think of it like this: if you go into an area in a small group, and the response is a blob of enemy ships, who really won?

People will say, from the "war of attrition" perspective of 3rd generation warfare, that a superior force was deployed to overcome a smaller force the the region was kept under control.

From the approach of 4th generation warfare, the whole endeavor cost the superior force more. 4GW takes on the accountability of the greatest weapon ever known in warfare: economics.


Think of it this way: you spend millions on an attack aircraft, 40K on a smart bomb, and millions more getting that equipment into the field. The bomb gets dropped on a pickup truck worth at best 400 dollars.

Who won?

Even with nice cheap drones, the targets of these hellfire missiles are way cheaper than the missile. The cost and logistical support of the drone is also to be taken into account. So the drone operators high-five each other for taking out an old truck or barn, and just outside the door of their control room, their own country is bankrupt and falling apart.

Now, getting back in the game, a fleet is sent to dispatch a small incursion team.

That's a lot of material.

And what of the players? What were the players doing? Where they running anoms? Where they ratting (which many say is on the level of level 4 highsec missions)?

Take the amount of ISK per hour doing these "nullsec things" and say it takes an hour to catch the small incursion gang.

Let's say the small gang had mere destroyers, some frigates, maybe some of the tech 2 variety, or not. We can assume 2-month noobs even, in Rifters, raising hell for the fun of it.


So, if they small gang is nimble and has experience (and they will if they keep at it enough) they will be tying the "superior force" up for a while.

And finally, when the small gang or fleet is blobbed, and podded "back to highsec", you are looking at maybe on average (assuming T2 turrets and tanking modules) anywhere from 7 to 10 Million ISK per player, and if they player is only in a few months, a cheap clone too.

What did the individual members of "the superior force" pay for those ships? Naturally someone who sees a million dollar missile take out a 40 dollar tent in RL might cheer if they don't know economics. But that tent cost the RL "superior force" the price of the missile and the cost of getting the delivery platform into theater, and maintaining it too (wear and tear).

The team of noobs who got podded back to highsec will be back.

The people who killed them, will have paid the cost - the ISK they WOULD HAVE made if they didn't have to hunt down some noobs.

This is why we explain that if everybody in highsec, tired of the attitude towards them, tired of nullsec drama and feudalism (lots of people in highsec who tried nullsec and came back with a double-facepalm) , and tired of this wall of lies used to corporatize and pave over nullsec, which would otherwise be a rich land of exploration, harvesting, and PVP, would roll an alt, skill up to do some damage, and just start heading out there, nullsec would burn.

And the butthurt potential is great you see, because people pay to be in nullsec, they pay for SOV. And the alliances sell to the same kind of self-interested ISK-hogging that they say is so prevalent in highsec and poisoning the game. They only care about numbers and how much they get in taxes, while someone at the top acts like it matters, looking at numbers numbers numbers.

Once people realize this, things will change. Harry is proving that it can be done.

Once the pirate/griefer community realizes this, and once the rich incursioners in highsec provide ISK, it's over for nullsec. But we never know who the benefactors are, they might well be highsec incursion runners, making their habit of keeping the Sansha Mom alive while grinding sites the very infinite ISK weapon that nullsec should be worried about. For once that ISK becomes an endless supply of T1 and T2 ships for newer players, or their own alts, all the "nerf highsec" complaints in the world won't stop this juggernaut (the ISK is already earned).

Those people are wrong. And it's funny to make them cry about it, because their hurt feelings really stem from a deep seated desire to not admit that they are wrong.


The guys who lived. EVE is, at least in the kinds of numbers we are talking about, economic and psychological warfare. Economical, blobbing and taking no losses. Psychological, making you feel like it's futile to fight someone who will blob you so well.

In the end, the desire and the ability to fight is lost.

Most of the rest of your argument is pretty much absurd in a videogame. In real life? Yes, cost effective warfare is a problem.

But in EVE? All it costs someone to cyno a gang on you is a few minutes time and some minor materials. Materials, I might add, that are not all that tricky to come by.



Standing fleets. The entire thing, particularly the opportunity cost, is pretty well already taken into account. Yeesh.



Harry is making an ass of himself, as he always does.

Furthermore, your entire "sleeping giant" argument is asinine. If the people you are talking about waking up, ever could, there wouldn't be so much nullsec on the CSM. They aren't even capable of voting, let alone standing fleet timers and running ops and pos bashes.

I have a girlfriend....yep.

Yet the irony of goons getting ganked in their own system is very overlooked even in this thread.

Which is in itself... ironic.

Do you honestly believe that Harry is the first combat pilot to make their way into vfk and "gank" the goons? Have you missed the Black Legion kills of carriers or PL/Test or 401k activity there? You appear to have bought and eaten a lot of Blue Donuts!! Considering most Goons are in B-d & now 4-E your probably seeing their alts & or pilots who jc back who are bored to tears if gudfigts aren't happening in fountain! Goons maybe, hell no maybe about, the biggest sperglords out there but they are a close knit community and make content within the game that suits them, their play style and the propaganda...you guys are just feeding the dementedness that is Goons!