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Dramiels speedtanking the nerf-bat?
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Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#21 - 2011-10-24 02:40:52 UTC
Sinnek wrote:
1. remove drones
2. make Firetail slightly faster (than Dramiel)

balance achieved?



Remove the dramiel and all the existing intercepters are back in business.. with 4 different flavors and different advantages

.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#22 - 2011-10-24 02:56:03 UTC
I've seen dramiels die more to webbing ishkurs and rifters than any other ship.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
RandomFlame
Gila Knights
#23 - 2011-10-24 17:49:32 UTC
So the big boys are afraid of the Dramiel eh? Same old same old. Grow up fellas and do it fast.Big smile As for revolting character photos-suits you Sir.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#24 - 2011-10-24 17:52:01 UTC
perhaps if LCO's signature radius wasn't so... um... BROAD Shocked
Demon View
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-10-25 01:25:28 UTC
Aside, I used to hate, hate, hate the Dramiel, and then I discovered their perfect counter in solo lowsec combat: the directional scanner. Now, flying a Dramiel just means that you never land on grid to find that I'm still there. When I see it demonstrated that even a plated Punisher can decide to only engage ships that aren't Dramiels (or Hookbills, or Crows, or Slicers, or...), a lot of emotion goes out of the picture.

Instead of being an 'I win' button, Dramiels feel more like a "the guy I might've fought just buggered off to another constellation" button, or a "others gain extra satisfaction for killing me no matter how underhanded their means because I totally deserve all of it" button.

Doubly aside, how much of a boost to non-Dramiels would it be if certain T2 ships' MWDs weren't deactivated by a scram - or if overheating countered this effect of scramblers?
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#26 - 2011-10-25 03:07:52 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I disagree that the Dramiel has "killed" frigate combat other than solo work (a mixed gang of frigates including keres, hyena, etc can make piecemeal even of multiple dramiels, once you slow them down they dont stack up great against other combat frigates in a straight brawl.) I think the biggest threat from the Dramiel is psychological - if everyone assumes that nothing can beat a dramiel, no one brings anything else out, and combat overall gets stale. For those tenacious enough, dramiels can still be caught and killed easily, especially since the flavor of the month factor means theres a lot of underqualified pilots buzzing around in them too.

That being said - I wanted to offer up something that may help the situation. Over in our Faction Warfare thread, one of the popular "fixes" to the FW mechanics is to banish pirate ships from any of the plexes that banish tech 2 ships. If you can't bring a wolf into a plex, you shouldn't be able to bring a dramiel. This is an easy fix, and very popular amongst FW enthusiasts.

If this change takes place, and I hope the developers take it into consideration, than this will provide a Dramiel/cynabal-free zone where pilots can PvP the old school way. So, taking care of the FW plexes in this fashion also serves as a de facto Dramiel nerf, and if it is implemented I hope it draws in a group of players who want to roam and fight in cheaper, smaller ships and enjoy gang warfare without the overpowered pirate ships getting in the way.



agreed. needs more types of plexs to. 3 types is not enough. more plexs would nerf the dram in it self. perhaps certain pockets at like wormholes int he sense that you speed would be lowered or your resistance would be lowered, or your smart bomb range increased. perhaps a mining plex? for LOLZ

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#27 - 2011-10-25 03:15:52 UTC
The Dramiel nerf has been a long time coming. Don't let it slip by, CCP!
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#28 - 2011-12-19 12:30:28 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
[...] perhaps a mining plex? for LOLZ


Bring back teh Battle-Hulk of win!

Ni.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#29 - 2011-12-19 12:41:58 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Bo Bojangles wrote:
The appropriate thing to do would be to balance that out before seeking a counter from another class.


I'd take on a Dram any day in my Hookbill Pirate



It's a dam good frig for sure. People just don't spec light missiles enough to see how much dmg you can put out with those on small stuff. Caracals, Navy caracals, Hookbils are incredible GOD mode with those vs small ships.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#30 - 2011-12-19 12:44:43 UTC
Oddly enough the only reason I ever thought about getting a Dramiel was to kill annoying Dramiels.
Shaalira D'arc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-12-19 13:50:41 UTC
This thread is necro-tanking death.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#32 - 2011-12-19 14:55:22 UTC
The problem with the Dramiel is that is has little to no weaknesses in comparison to the others.

The Worm is slow.
The Daredevil is vulnerable to cap warfare and has to get within point blank range. The fact that you need to fit a web on the DD to take advantage of it also means dual prop isn't an option unless you discard this awesome bonus.
The Cruor is somewhat slow, and has a difficult slot layout/fittings
The Succubus is vulnerable to cap warfare and doesn't really have any special abilities other than doing high damage.

In comparison, the Dramiel is the fastest ship with selectable damage type, comes in third on damage, has the second most EHP. is fairly resistant to cap warfare with capless guns. It has both a falloff and a tracking bonus so you can't kite it in scram range nor can you try and go in close to get under it's guns. It also has drones so the applied DPS of the Dramiel is very difficult to remove.

The best and most reliable counter to a Dramiel is a Dramiel. Followed by Imperial Navy Slicer (but the dramiel can escape fairly easily), and then AB/Scram/web Ishkur/Jaguar. pretty much everything else a Dramiel can kill or run from. Cruor/Daredevil MIGHT be tough fights but the advantage is in the Dramiels favour if he starts off outside scram range.

All of the other pirate frigates have obvious weaknesses and counters, and are countered by ships other than themselves and specific setups. (sure ab/scram/web might be common in lowsec, but in 0.0 fitting an AB gives up the ability to run camps).


Personally, I'd rather see the drones removed, and then the tracking bonus switched out for an autocannon damage bonus (to replace drone DPS). This would leave the Dramiel as a fast, hard hitting skirmish frigate but would now have to be careful about ships going under it's guns, would have a slightly harder time trying to deal with drones, and wouldn't be able to kite as many ships without tracking bonuses by orbiting at 500 with ab on.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#33 - 2011-12-19 15:24:20 UTC
Metal Icarus wrote:
For every ship there is one that can easily defeat it. For every dramiel, there is a hookbill


More than just the Hookbill.. The Blarpy, Hawk, Vengance can all kill a dram.. the problem is none of them can "catch" the dram. A Dram pilot pretty much has to screw up to die to another frig in a 1 vs 1.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#34 - 2011-12-19 15:30:25 UTC
I'm pretty sure they actually nerfed the dram with the last major patch

oh... didn't they nerf it enough for you?

well, hate to break it to you, but learn to fly and you might get those juicy dramiel kills that the rest of us are enjoying
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#35 - 2011-12-19 15:35:36 UTC
Morganta, learn to read post dates before trying to smack.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#36 - 2011-12-19 16:28:01 UTC
Killstealing wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Between the Hybrid Buff and the Dramiel Nerf the Daredevil is gonna be crazy.

This. The daredevil is already a close contender with the Dramiel for best (pirate) frigate and is its hard counter as well. Just because 'everyone' uses a dram doesn't mean just nerfing that will make frigate PvP magically better. What needs to happen:


  • AF 4th bonus
  • Dramiel/Daredevil rebalance
  • Cruor and Succubus are pretty niche nowadays because honestly, neut/nos on frigs is not always useful
  • Worm needs to be watched very carefully, it's not the powerhouse the DDD brothers are but with those 2 rebalanced it might
    • become really really strong.


To the guy saying the entire angel lineup is OP, angels are all about speed and that is one of the most important things in frig/cruiser PvP (the Dram is called OP mostly because it can disengage at will, go at 6km/s and hit at 20km out. The DD counters it because of web bonus). The Bhaalgorn/Vindi/Nightmare are not weak at all compared to the Mach considered you use them well (incursion fleets, capping out supers Lol). The issue there is not that 'angels are OP' but that speed is really ******* important and angels just so happen to focus on that. Plus falloff is cool, yo. Hitting people from 20km out in a frig, yo.




The Worm in the hands of someone trained up "all 5's" on missiles and drones would be deadly. But such a player is not common.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#37 - 2011-12-19 17:27:01 UTC
I'm such a person and the Worm is simply sub par.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2011-12-19 18:38:32 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I'm such a person and the Worm is simply sub par.


I'm another.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#39 - 2011-12-19 19:35:40 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I'm such a person and the Worm is simply sub par.



Thanks. I too, am "up there" in drones and missiles thanks to a preference for Minmatar ships, but have considered the Worm in the past. Never dropped the ISK on one as I was busy with other things, but will take the advice and forget it.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#40 - 2011-12-19 19:36:00 UTC
Don't get me wrong, its not utterly dreadful but whenever I fit one up I just fail to see why I should use it over a hawk apart from for the novelty of flying something different.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
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