Intergalactic Summit

No, Minmatar are NOT Caldari. We, at least, had a valid causus belli when we invaded Luminaire.

Targeting military production would be a better response than taking territory in my opinion. Weaken them and once the Amarr press they will beg to come to the table.

It will show the entire cluster that once other options are exhausted (This assumes we cut ties first without result from them) We WILL fight back.

Then again it likely will not come to that. If we simply end our alliance and let the Amarr press even that advantage they will come to the table. Then after they agree to full reparations to the federation families that suffer without their loved ones due to the attack and apologize for betraying our good will by spitting on our judicial system we can THINK about restarting the alliance.

This Ma’dame is a “fact” I challenge you to prove.

I am glad I am not the only one that was rechecking the fluid routers when I actually heard "unfortunate misunderstanding" coming from that Republic apologist.

If the battle was SOMEHOW a misunderstanding the Republic would not have allowed a verdict later on that spit in the face of Federation good will.

It was not a misunderstanding at all.

Millions of dead Caldari over the last three hundred years might take exception to that. Oh, and you don't even need a good reason - the Gallente started trying to starve the Caldari on Caldari Prime before Nouvelle Rouvenor even occurred.

By the way, just because we are getting Heth out of the way, don't think that we love the Gallente now. You are still our enemies, and, personally, I think the Gallente are worse as friends.

I suppose since our ancestors did it its okay for us to continue? We aim to rise above vengeance and revenge, it's iconic amongst our civilization is it not? Sure we have failed horribly in the past and we are most certainly fighting against the sins of our fathers in our conflicts with the Caldari now. Does this mean we have to succumb to this sin yet again because of what the Minmatar did at Colelie? Let go of this pride if its even that.. it tends to trap our frame of mind quite easily into conflicts that make generations to come suffer horribly.




I won't deny that at all and I stand by what I said.




Captain Akahoshi, first let me make this very clear.. I don't stand with the Republic. I stand with the Minmatar people that will surely succumb to the atrocities of a war with us. Its in our hands to make a choice, and to encourage a war is going to kill more lives on both sides. Minmatar blood will be on our hands.

Turning the cheek is the only clear way to fight something of this nature. The battle of Colelie was a clash of cultural differences that hit the very core of who both the Gallente and Minmatar are. If we say "Lets go to war!" and flex our muscles what are we then? Are we even Gallente in the principle sense?

Let the Republic choose its response for what occurred. If they, as a nation and a political entity have any sense.. they will find it within themselves to apologies, not for their culture or their passion that drives them.. but for the battle that left so many dead. On the other hand, if they decide to bully us with border engagements, let them. I think it's safe to say the Federation will protect what is ours. Minmatar blood would not be on our hands in that scenario, it would be on that of the Republic. The Minmatar are a smart people, they will eventually see who their enemy is within their own nation at that point.

And as I said before, the Federation personnel fought to protect ideals we hold close. They died doing so wouldn't you say? How is that dying for nothing? The Republic Fleet that acted in a rage was unfortunate, but their passion is a part of who they are and they died trying to enact core ideals they also hold close.

Did they ask to have observers?

The legacy of the dead can guide us only so far, Vikarion. I honour my ancestors as much as any Caldari, but we must remember that the present and future belong to the living and those yet to live.

We have Home again. Haajakin taalo - we have returned. Our promise is kept.

What our people need now is stability, time to collect ourselves, sort out our house and prepare for the future. We must ask ourselves - seriously and fearlessly - what role the Federation will play in that future. Because you can't ignore them, or hide from them, or keep them at bay completely. And, I think, nor should we want to.

They're a big economy, that means big profits. They've got some very good ideas we should give serious thought to adapting for our own ends, ideas that could be adapted for the benefit of the State with no Faustian contract involved. And the same is true in the other direction.



That's a false dilemma. There are positions on the relationship spectrum besides "friends" and "enemies". I don't think I want the Federation to be our close and trusted friends - nations, in my view, should not have any close and trusted friends - but we don't have to be the bestest best pals for ever and ever with sunshine and bunnies and hugs and cake in order to benefit from one another, nor does the State automatically benefit from Federal misfortune.

There's a middle ground: formal business, a coolly professional relationship. We trade with them, they trade with us, both sides agree to stay out of each others' domestic affairs. We don't have to like them or adopt their culture, nor they us and ours, but mutual disagreement is not a barrier to co-operation.

The same goes for the Minmatar. I personally very much like the Matari, but I don't expect that the entire State should share my fondness. What I do expect is the recognition that there is in fact no good reason for our peoples to be at war, and that if anything we're a rather better match with the Tribes than we are with our traditional trading partners, the Amarr. The Republic at least don't view us as eventual subjects.

Nations need to hold each other at arm's length, have a clear position on "this is yours, this is ours, we won't interfere in yours, you don't interfere in ours." Nations aren't friends. Nations act in their own interest, unashamedly and without apology.

However, a nation's interests are served better in the long run by a reputation for honourable conduct and honest dealing than by a reputation for cynical exploitation and rip-offs.

As I said earlier, it's only a matter of time before it got bumped up to "The Colelie Genocide."

Even tho there's no stations in Colelie, not sure if it's inhabited.

Genocide is "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, Caste, religious, or national group." Some thousands of Federation crewmen consist of a part of a national group, do they not?

Rather than attempting to nitpick verbiage (and failing), it might better serve the Republic for you and other Republic-aligned capsuleers to attempt to repair relations with the Federation capsuleers.