These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

'Local' is a problem? Why is that? (further study on AFK cloaking subject)

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2013-06-19 15:27:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Sometimes people are too dumb to do their null sec pve activities in groups. I heard one guy claim that the rest of his corp was asleep when he was online so he had no back up. GEE GOLLY it couldn't be his incorrect choice in corps to join could it? NO its afk cloakers and local.

I mean seriously, look at the peopel whining. Rather than use what they got to deal with the problem, they just dock up and run to the forums asking for ccp to help them. How bloody weak is that?



Exactly. if people are going to null to solo pve and don't have adequate support to allow them to do so, it's not the result of AFK being over powered. That is just silliness. It's fear that is over powering those players....doubt CCP can do anything about that.

If someone comes into our static, probes everything out and has bm's for every anom/data/relic/gas site, we've no way to know that. If he's going to stay in there for hours waiting for us to farm, we have no way of knowing that either. He might call in friends. We'll know that because we're covering our exits with scouts. You guys in null don't even need to do that. Just watch local. Ok, so you might get hotdropped. I'm pretty sure you'll see that when it happens right in front of you even if it's covert. At that point you GTFO. Always be ready to GTFO.

Granted you might lose a ship that's pointed but, then that's the name of the game. It's not like a fleet is going to appear on top of you without any kind of warning. When you're in a data relic gas site try hitting dscan occasionally if you already know someone is in system that isn't blue. If you see probes, might be a good idea to GTFO here too.

I don't know what to tell you guys in nullsec. Deal with it? Move back to hisec if you want that kind of womb like feeling?

Don't ban me, bro!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#162 - 2013-06-19 15:31:06 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I wish I was smart enough to persuade Tippia that it would be in her rational interest to run for CSM

Oh well, that still leaves blackmail, bribery and threats! Pirate

Rationally, the vizier's seat has much better stuffing and far fewer stabbing-holes in the backrest than the throne. Blink

…also, if there's anything I've learned from my dayjob, it is that politics and bureaucracy is a great spectator sport, but not something I wish to engage in personally. Except maybe using cardboard tokens and small wooden houses.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#163 - 2013-06-19 15:37:40 UTC
Sarcasim wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ayuren Aakiwa wrote:
Removing local is a terrible idea supported by terrible people.

That's because it's a solution to a terrible “problem” — not in the sense that the problem is truly horrific, but that the problem is horribly poorly defined.

The removal of local is the perfect “solution” to the “problem” of AFK cloakers. As luck would have it, AFK cloakers are not a problem to begin with, so the solution isn't needed either. Everyone wins! \o/

Luck? How about truth? Truth is afk cloaking is a issue. Local allows you to see it. Don't pull your eyes out bc you don't like what you see in the mirror.

Change whats in the mirror not ur ability to see the issue.


The truth? The real truth of the matter is that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat. He might be zero threat (afk), he might be a small threat (a solo hunter) or he might be a large threat (ready to hotdrop you in an instant). Certain types of player are driven absolutely insane by the inability to resolve this unknown down to something nice and distinct. They can't deal with the large, vague possibilities.

"AFK cloakers", while they are part of this grand system, are themselves practically irrelevant. They are only relevant in the context that they increase the level of unknown.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#164 - 2013-06-19 15:46:09 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
The truth? The real truth of the matter is that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat. He might be zero threat (afk), he might be a small threat (a solo hunter) or he might be a large threat (ready to hotdrop you in an instant). Certain types of player are driven absolutely insane by the inability to resolve this unknown down to something nice and distinct. They can't deal with the large, vague possibilities.

"AFK cloakers", while they are part of this grand system, are themselves practically irrelevant. They are only relevant in the context that they increase the level of unknown.

Shocked I think I might have to turn that into copypasta for future threads. Very neatly described.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#165 - 2013-06-19 15:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Tippia wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
The truth? The real truth of the matter is that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat. He might be zero threat (afk), he might be a small threat (a solo hunter) or he might be a large threat (ready to hotdrop you in an instant). Certain types of player are driven absolutely insane by the inability to resolve this unknown down to something nice and distinct. They can't deal with the large, vague possibilities.

"AFK cloakers", while they are part of this grand system, are themselves practically irrelevant. They are only relevant in the context that they increase the level of unknown.

Shocked I think I might have to turn that into copypasta for future threads. Very neatly described.


I'll say, Gunslinger for president.

The real problem may not be the game mechanics (which are not perfect and can always be improved, i'm all for good, rational reasonable progress), but the fact that some null sec PVE players are misplaced and would be happier in high sec where threats are easier to quantify and mitigate.

The vast majority of "nullbears" like me deal with the issue without complaining about it on the forums or asking for sweeping change and i want ccp to know that. I still find it horribly disconcerting that some video game players (of a hard core game) can't figure out for themselves how to use thousands of tools and tactics to defeat a perceived threat when people like me deal with it every single day of the week.

I once had a guy on here tell me he wasn't in null sec because of cloakers and hotdrops and "there is nothing you can do to protect yourself". I fairly screamed at the dude "don't you understand you're not describing a bad mechanic, your describing a bad PLAYER" lol
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#166 - 2013-06-19 16:00:17 UTC

Me an' mah famlee has a long honored tray-dishon of Ay Eff Kay cloakin'

And ay ain't about to let no Gov'ment Man from no County awwface come down here an' teyell me whut ay can n' cant do



Y'all'll have t'pry mah Covert Cloaker from mah cold, dead hands, ah telly'whut
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#167 - 2013-06-19 16:06:52 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:

Me an' mah famlee has a long honored tray-dishon of Ay Eff Kay cloakin'

And ay ain't about to let no Gov'ment Man from no County awwface come down here an' teyell me whut ay can n' cant do



Y'all'll have t'pry mah Covert Cloaker from mah cold, dead hands, ah telly'whut


I don't know if you were shooting for Highland Scots or Lowland Alabama redneck? Twisted
Sarcasim
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#168 - 2013-06-19 16:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarcasim
Jenn aSide wrote:
Sarcasim wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Ayuren Aakiwa wrote:
Removing local is a terrible idea supported by terrible people.

That's because it's a solution to a terrible “problem” — not in the sense that the problem is truly horrific, but that the problem is horribly poorly defined.

The removal of local is the perfect “solution” to the “problem” of AFK cloakers. As luck would have it, AFK cloakers are not a problem to begin with, so the solution isn't needed either. Everyone wins! \o/

Luck? How about truth? Truth is afk cloaking is a issue. Local allows you to see it. Don't pull your eyes out bc you don't like what you see in the mirror.

Change whats in the mirror not ur ability to see the issue.


Sometimes people are too dumb to do their null sec pve activities in groups. I heard one guy claim that the rest of his corp was asleep when he was online so he had no back up. GEE GOLLY it couldn't be his incorrect choice in corps to join could it? NO its afk cloakers and local.



Dumb is arguing on the internet. I am not like you and your friends. I will not be drawn into your game of stupidity so that you can beat me with experience.

Many people have pointed out numerous valid points on how AFK cloaking effects others. You as well as others argued in previous threads against AFK ice mining using interaction as one of your points. Now you argue against AFK cloaking?? Same difference in my opinion. AFK is AFK if it’s the miner or the cloaker. The cloaker gets a lot more bang for his AFK buck then the miner ever did.

You and your buddies refuse to see it because you don’t want to lose this overpowered tool of AFK cloaking gives. It’s not weather it’s a issue but you don’t want to loose it.
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#169 - 2013-06-19 16:10:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:

Me an' mah famlee has a long honored tray-dishon of Ay Eff Kay cloakin'

And ay ain't about to let no Gov'ment Man from no County awwface come down here an' teyell me whut ay can n' cant do



Y'all'll have t'pry mah Covert Cloaker from mah cold, dead hands, ah telly'whut


I don't know if you were shooting for Highland Scots or Lowland Alabama redneck? Twisted



AHM Missoura Irish, y'dummy! Pirate
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#170 - 2013-06-19 16:12:04 UTC
Sarcasim wrote:
The cloaker gets a lot more bang for his AFK buck then the miner ever did.
Eh… When did “nothing” become more than “a lot”? Ugh
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#171 - 2013-06-19 16:14:12 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:

Me an' mah famlee has a long honored tray-dishon of Ay Eff Kay cloakin'

And ay ain't about to let no Gov'ment Man from no County awwface come down here an' teyell me whut ay can n' cant do



Y'all'll have t'pry mah Covert Cloaker from mah cold, dead hands, ah telly'whut


I don't know if you were shooting for Highland Scots or Lowland Alabama redneck? Twisted



AHM Missoura Irish, y'dummy! Pirate




I really have to apologise for my Mother





Deep space AFK cloaking does tend to wear a way at a person's manners, y'know?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#172 - 2013-06-19 16:22:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Sarcasim wrote:

Dumb is arguing on the internet. I am not like you and your friends. I will not be drawn into your game of stupidity so that you can beat me with experience.

Many people have pointed out numerous valid points on how AFK cloaking effects others. You as well as others argued in previous threads against AFK ice mining using interaction as one of your points. Now you argue against AFK cloaking?? Same difference in my opinion. AFK is AFK if it’s the miner or the cloaker. The cloaker gets a lot more bang for his AFK buck then the miner ever did.

You and your buddies refuse to see it because you don’t want to lose this overpowered tool of AFK cloaking gives. It’s not weather it’s a issue but you don’t want to loose it.


And there it finally is, the standard "im losing the argument, lets challenge their MOTIVES" fall back LOL.

I have NEVER once afk cloaked anyone (I don't waste game time), I rarely pvp nowadays and I can count the number of hotdrops I've been on since I started pvping in 2008 on one hand (nothing wrong with it, I just hate sitting on a titan or black ops while their are npcs that need killin).

But seriously, don't you understand, by having to fall back on "you just want to keep killing stuff" (when talking to a person who is a NULLBEAR, if we had npc kill stats I'd be at the top of battleclinic lol) you're exposing the weakness of your beliefs? I'm not the hunter, I'm the guy the cloaky is hunting lol.

No one is refusing to see something just because we disagree with you, we are telling you the truth. I am doing so from the perspective of a NULL SEC PVE PLAYER. AFK cloak and local are not problems , Sarcaism, people like you who refuse to fight back and use the thousands of tools at your disposal are the problem. I'm sorry you can't see that.

EDIT: You also need to lay off that afk ice mining BS. I've never said anything about it.
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#173 - 2013-06-19 16:57:19 UTC
Quote:
You as well as others argued in previous threads against AFK ice mining using interaction as one of your points. Now you argue against AFK cloaking?? Same difference in my opinion. AFK is AFK if it’s the miner or the cloaker.


WTF??? AFK cloaking vs. AFK mining? Even remotely related? How much money does an AFK cloaker make because I'm willing to sign up for it!!
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2013-06-19 17:04:56 UTC
This thread makes me want to recruit more afk cloakers to my corp. i see a recruitment drive in my future.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Sarcasim
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#175 - 2013-06-19 17:10:21 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Incorrect. Your main problhttps://forums.eveonline.com/themes/ccpEveOnline/pix-trans.pngem is that you automatically equate “asking hard questions” and “questioning unproven assumptions and claims” to trolling. In reality, it's the opposite: if you can't stand hard question and if you can't prove your assumptions or claims, you are the troll. That's all I'm doing: exposing the trolls. They really don't like that and have a tendency to call people trolls for doing so… but, of course, as always, without any kind of proof to back that claim up.


I just wanted to highlight that point. I sometimes post out of irritation, irritated by the fact that someone posts a stupid/unfounded/unprovable thing, gets called on it, and all of a sudden the person pointing out the flaw is the bad guy. Why not just THINK before posting and develop good reasoning skills?

Because that's too damn hard, that's why lol. Just easier to label the half of the universe that doesn't agree with you as "troll" (trollverse?) and be done with it. And that is both weak and lazy....

..in the same way that running to a forum and asking CCP to fix something that doesn't need fixing and is easily aviodable is weak and lazy.

I must simply be doing it wrong, flying Machariels and Rattlesnakes around null sec (usually solo) making isk by the crapload while ignoring (or rarely, killing) cloakers that try to gank me or camp my system. I should have just docked up and spent that time badgering CCP ti fix the game for me....


You should be on the CSM.

Omg yea bc we really need another Mintchip event..
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#176 - 2013-06-19 17:12:56 UTC
Sarcasim wrote:

Omg yea bc we really need another Mintchip event..


What a well thought out and eloquent reply.

Oh wait Mintchip isnt on the CSM

And has nothing to do with this

Is that really the best youve got?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#177 - 2013-06-19 17:13:08 UTC
Sarcasim wrote:
Omg yea bc we really need another Mintchip event..
A what?
Faenir Antollare
For Ever And Ever
#178 - 2013-06-19 17:25:32 UTC
After reading the full thread I would like to say, from a relatively new player`s pov, that the removal of local chat (in null) would drastically dilute my enjoyment.
I likes to wander abouts a bits, whilst immersing myself within the game I had the idea to try and visit each and every system I could and I am making progress.
Every now and again I enter a system where the locals are seriously hostile, I absolutely adore this..I learn more in trying to avoid a confrontation that I cannot hope to win than I ever would learn whilst fannying about in H-sec, If those adversaries were not present to me in local and then my craft unto them, then all this would be lost, whilst not a pvp orientated Peep the lessons from such interactions should not be cast away lightly.

Please do not change anything, just embrace the hostile nature of the environment we populate and get on with it Cool


/fly true
Les

RiP BooBoo 26/7/1971 - 23/7/2014 My Lady My Love My Life My Wife
Sarcasim
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#179 - 2013-06-19 17:44:26 UTC
Onomerous wrote:
Quote:
You as well as others argued in previous threads against AFK ice mining using interaction as one of your points. Now you argue against AFK cloaking?? Same difference in my opinion. AFK is AFK if it’s the miner or the cloaker.


WTF??? AFK cloaking vs. AFK mining? Even remotely related? How much money does an AFK cloaker make because I'm willing to sign up for it!!


As stated in previous post the cloaker gets paid in intel while at the keyboard but gets paid while afk with the ability to effect other players all just from being logged in and not even ingame.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#180 - 2013-06-19 17:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Sarcasim wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Incorrect. Your main problhttps://forums.eveonline.com/themes/ccpEveOnline/pix-trans.pngem is that you automatically equate “asking hard questions” and “questioning unproven assumptions and claims” to trolling. In reality, it's the opposite: if you can't stand hard question and if you can't prove your assumptions or claims, you are the troll. That's all I'm doing: exposing the trolls. They really don't like that and have a tendency to call people trolls for doing so… but, of course, as always, without any kind of proof to back that claim up.


I just wanted to highlight that point. I sometimes post out of irritation, irritated by the fact that someone posts a stupid/unfounded/unprovable thing, gets called on it, and all of a sudden the person pointing out the flaw is the bad guy. Why not just THINK before posting and develop good reasoning skills?

Because that's too damn hard, that's why lol. Just easier to label the half of the universe that doesn't agree with you as "troll" (trollverse?) and be done with it. And that is both weak and lazy....

..in the same way that running to a forum and asking CCP to fix something that doesn't need fixing and is easily aviodable is weak and lazy.

I must simply be doing it wrong, flying Machariels and Rattlesnakes around null sec (usually solo) making isk by the crapload while ignoring (or rarely, killing) cloakers that try to gank me or camp my system. I should have just docked up and spent that time badgering CCP ti fix the game for me....


You should be on the CSM.

Omg yea bc we really need another Mintchip event..


i'm a dude, don't let the white chick avatar fool you. I just picked this avatar as a way of saying "where the white women at?".