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Multiboxing miners is it proftable ?

Author
zeyta102
Sun Gods
#1 - 2013-06-16 18:40:08 UTC
Quick question guys im looking to take my first few steps into indy and i was thinking of multiboxing miners. and i was wondering around about income.

The plan..

Max orca booster + 10-15 hulks / macks

the question is would this be viable currently i have assumed the avarage income in highsec after reprocesing at 50mill per hulk per hr is this around right or is it more or less ?

better of mining ore or ice with new changes.

i would also look into research and producsing t2 mods and hulls in the future but again thats in the future.

have i over looked anything ? is my maths bad ?

anyhel would be appreciated
Markus Navarro
Osmon Integrated Robotics
#2 - 2013-06-16 21:34:20 UTC
50mill/hour per hulk is exagerated, especially since you will munch trough belt fast, and finding/setting up will take a lot of time

I sell drones and drones accessories.

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#3 - 2013-06-16 21:46:54 UTC
10-15 hulks mining ore are a lot of micromanagement. And you'll definitely want a dedicated hauler for them. Besides the boosting orca.

Remove standings and insurance.

zeyta102
Sun Gods
#4 - 2013-06-16 22:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: zeyta102
I would be using an isboxer and yes would a hauling orca do ?

And how much an hr per mack would we be looking at
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-06-16 23:13:40 UTC
With so many miners you pretty much need freighter, and i wouldnt even want to see the guy multiboxing 15 miners, he must be something scary.Pirate
MicDeath Titan
No Mans Corp
#6 - 2013-06-17 02:50:23 UTC
As a multi-boxing miner, yhea can be worth it. if you take the time to set up your route, you will save time down the road, a butt loads of time. before you start, with each miner set up their book marks for every roid belt you want to mine in every system you want to make your route.
The goal is to spread out the fleet so you don't pop a belt so fast that you end up spending most of time relocating. My rule of thumb is max of 3 miners per belt.
Once you get those bookmarks set up take a day to practice freighter running. Getting inside the freighter, running to each belt via "Warp to member", i find warp to 0 causes you to have too much forward momentum you get out of range of the cans too often.
I make my freighter mine as well, no sense having the freighter on standby for 70 minutes or so.

The way I go about it is, have the miners and freighter mine at least 3 full cans for the start, and then once the freighter has 2 cans on the second run the third can on the miners should be getting full. Each run should yield 32 cans. Each belt can sustain 3-6 runs before you waste more time locking new roids than actually mining them. At this point just move to the next system. For me I make the move once every 3 hours and 20-30 min. Each system will give about 2.5-5 milion m3 of ore.

Work your way from the higher value ores and down. I also don't even bother locking onto roid with less than 10k units.
@Termy Rockling doing 15 accounts isn't scary, just got to be on the ball. :D
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/micdeath/cascade_zps976da79a.png
MicDeath is my main and orca pilot, Kaling is the freighter.
Sabre Rolf
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-06-17 05:25:26 UTC
zeyta102 wrote:


the question is would this be viable currently i have assumed the avarage income in highsec after reprocesing at 50mill per hulk per hr is this around right or is it more or less ?



50 mil per hulk in hi-sec isn't realistic. rather 8-10mil and even with isboxer 15chars are effort. 15 clients will require a high-end machine.
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#8 - 2013-06-17 06:02:56 UTC
When you reach 10-15 miners you are better off mining in nullsec and taking advantage grav sites that spawn based on industry level.
zeyta102
Sun Gods
#9 - 2013-06-17 06:31:35 UTC
So would nullse be a better bet taking into account time lost with afk cloakers? How much Ore is in ur max grav site?

And about my pc I'm running quadcore 16gb ram and 2gb grafics so I should be able to handle 13-15 toons on minimum settings
Tash'k Omar
Indefinite Mass
#10 - 2013-06-17 06:44:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tash'k Omar
With the changes to ice belts, running 10-15 hulks is no longer feasible in highsec. You will want to be mining ore anomalies in nullsec, where the rocks can support that many miners, and they respawn after completion. Also, you will be able to use Rorqual boosts, resulting in 17% more yield.

However, pulling in that much ore, you will easily bring the system to level 5 industry, which attracts the wrong kind of attention for mining. Level 5 does take a lot of mining though, so depending on your play schedule you may be OK.

Also, with a sieged Rorqual boosting your 10 max skilled hulks, you will be bringing in 31,690m3 of ore per minute. Pulling numbers out of thin air, I reason that realistically, you can expect a sustained 2,750m3 per minute from your hulks (as opposed to 3,169 with a 3% implant). This brings your intake to 27,500-41,250m3 per minute (10-15 hulks). With 15 hulks you are able to fill a T2 rigged Ity 5 every 60 seconds. At this rate of extraction, even hauling with an Orca is not feasable, due to the long align time and slow warp speed.

You will want to haul with a freighter or second rorqual, and possibly may want to consider fitting dual webs to one of the ships in site, for faster align time of the hauling ship.

Delving further into the logistical challenges, your hulks ore hold can only contain 8,000m3 of ore, however your T2 strips will be bringing in just under 5,500m3 of ore every 104 seconds. Managing shifting that much ore is not feasable over a long period of time, so you may wish to switch to mackinaws, jet cans every ~5-10 minutes, and tractor with a rorqual from 100km away. As it so happens, 15 max skilled Mackinaws will take very nearly exactly 10 minutes to mine the 400,000m3 of ore that a T1 rigged rorqual can hold, which brings us to our second problem, compression.

Your boosting Rorqual will need to be compressing, and you may need a third Rorqual compressing as well. Assuming we are using the mackinaws, you are mining 2.4 million m3 of ore per hour. 8 hours of mining and your last Rorqual load won't fit in your Large Ship Assembly array (you are hauling to a POS right? It takes way less time than docking).

Sorry for the book. And yes, it is that much of a pain.

Edit: Didn't consider can mining into an enormous freight container, and then scooping out of there with a Rorqual or freighter (don't bump the miners). That may be your best bet, and it lets you use hulks (moving ore every 2 minutes) for better yield == better money. I personally would not use a freighter, as the Rorqual has a jump drive as well as the ability to fit modules, which is a HUGE plus if anything ever hits the fan. Capital shield boosters/reps, capital tractor beam, 100mn MWD, jump to safety if hotdropped.

Also, 15 hulks brings you to ~3.13 million m3 per hour, if you use mining drones. 2.85 without drones.

I think the saddest part of this entire post is that it will still take you over an hour to mine the Spod.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-06-17 07:38:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Sin
I multi-box with 3 characters and it's enough micro-management (2 x miners, 1 x booster - but that 1 booster boosts other people in local too), and the other 2 chars build stuff with the minerals (add value). The best place to do it is in null anoms, where the rocks are enormous. If you're going to multi-box 15 characters there, you're going to lose lots of them to reds, that's if the locals don't do it first because they find your mining crew annoying, anti-social and stupid.

If you've got OCD, try washing your hands every 30 seconds instead of mining with 15 characters.
Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#12 - 2013-06-17 08:06:09 UTC
The correct answer is that you don't multibox 15 hulks. The 8500 ore hold will push you past the edge of sanity.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#13 - 2013-06-17 08:51:30 UTC
zeyta102 wrote:


the question is would this be viable currently i have assumed the avarage income in highsec after reprocesing at 50mill per hulk per hr is this around right or is it more or less ?



50mil intuitively strikes me as too high but I haven't actually worked it out.

Quote:

better of mining ore or ice with new changes.


There's a lot of over-capacity for ice mining in highsec right now. If you're determined to do this in high-sec ice belts then you will have trouble finding enough ice to mine.

Quote:


have i over looked anything ?



Yes.

Asteroids in many high-sec belts will be depleted in a maximum of two cycles with one turret on one hulk. Even with just one miner you're constantly "sweeping" through the belt and changing targets. With 15 hulks and 45 turrets you'll have enough capacity to sweep through an entire belt in ... lets say 10 min or so.

This will mean that you literally can't use isboxer for this. Putting 15 hulks on one asteroid using isboxer is going to mean in terms of theoretical capacity that 14 of them never mine anything. In order to get this to work at all you'll have to target each turret on each miner by hand.

You'll also need to "sweep" through the belt, moving from one end to the other as you go. You might think you could do that in a blob by getting 14 ships to approach the one you're controlling but even at that you'll have 45 turrets to target seperately as you go and you probably won't be able to get 45 asteroids in range of a blob of ships at one time.

That said.....

Your mining fleet isn't usless... just a little over-dimensioned for using in high-sec. Your fleet is very suited to mining in null-sec (or in wormholes if you're properly set up). The asteroids in nullse are much larger which will eliminate most of the problems I just mentioned.


Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#14 - 2013-06-17 13:02:46 UTC
zeyta102 wrote:
Quick question guys im looking to take my first few steps into indy and i was thinking of multiboxing miners. and i was wondering around about income.

The plan..

Max orca booster + 10-15 hulks / macks

the question is would this be viable currently i have assumed the avarage income in highsec after reprocesing at 50mill per hulk per hr is this around right or is it more or less ?

better of mining ore or ice with new changes.

i would also look into research and producsing t2 mods and hulls in the future but again thats in the future.

have i over looked anything ? is my maths bad ?

anyhel would be appreciated


You're going to be as popular as a Rottweiler with bubonic plague & AIDS doing that in high sec. Blink

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Echo Mande
#15 - 2013-06-17 14:51:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Echo Mande
zeyta102 wrote:
Quick question guys im looking to take my first few steps into indy and i was thinking of multiboxing miners. and i was wondering around about income.

The plan..

Max orca booster + 10-15 hulks / macks

Too much teeth (miners), not enough tail (haulers, support).

zeyta102 wrote:
the question is would this be viable currently i have assumed the avarage income in highsec after reprocesing at 50mill per hulk per hr is this around right or is it more or less ?

50M per hulk per hr is almost certainly not doable in highsec. Your biggest problem will be keeping your hulks/macks fed and mining, especially since 3-4 hulks (probably 5-6 macks) seem to me to be the maximum number you want in a single belt. With your miner horde I would almost certainly use two orca haulers and they would be kept fairly busy. You will probably want to mine in places far away from markets and mission systems just to keep your barges fed.

In nullsec things should be slightly easier to manage. There I would use a rorqual booster, a second rorqual to haul (an orca might be able to do it but would be busy all the time), a shield ratter to keep the rats at bay and maybe even a vulture if I felt my miners and ratter don't have enough tank. Proper use of corp POSses and corp/alliance/block intel channels goes without saying. Chow down on a few ore sites per week and your indy buddies will thank you for keeping the indy level up (just keep it under level 4). Your alliance (super)cap builder team also ought to thank you.

zeyta102 wrote:
better of mining ore or ice with new changes.

Ore. There likely isn't enough ice in even a nullsec ice site to keep your horde fed for long. That doesn't mean that an occasional ice op is something you should avoid. You would have a rorq to keep lit (siege mode)

zeyta102 wrote:
i would also look into research and producsing t2 mods and hulls in the future but again thats in the future.
Don't bother to do that on your mining toons. To manufacture T2 you need access to markets your mining toons will rarely if ever be near (for materials, datacores). If you've got an altcorp for the alts on your miner accounts, knock yourself out. Just remember that you'll almost need a highsec POS for copy purposes. Inventing/building modules at the POS is faster and lets you plan things better but it's not to everyone's taste. With 10-15 alt toons you should have more than enough to keep a large industrial POS busy fulltime manufacturing and still have some toons left over to run a smallish (1-4 ships per month) carrier building shop. Just remember that both T2 building and carrier building have very large up-front investment requirements.

One thing you could look into doing with your mining horde is PI. You could have an orca follow a gaggle of frigates from planet to planet.

zeyta102 wrote:

have i over looked anything ? is my maths bad

anyhel would be appreciated

Hope this helps
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#16 - 2013-06-17 15:01:17 UTC
zeyta102 wrote:
Quick question guys im looking to take my first few steps into indy and i was thinking of multiboxing miners. and i was wondering around about income.

The plan..

Max orca booster + 10-15 hulks / macks

the question is would this be viable currently i have assumed the avarage income in highsec after reprocesing at 50mill per hulk per hr is this around right or is it more or less ?

better of mining ore or ice with new changes.

i would also look into research and producsing t2 mods and hulls in the future but again thats in the future.

have i over looked anything ? is my maths bad ?

anyhel would be appreciated


I have 3 hulks and an ORCA, not quite maxed out. I make about 100M for the fleet per hour. So averages 25m per ship, including the ORCA. I dobt you will do near 50M per ship, even using isk boxer you lose a lot of efficiency to the multitasking. you will not be able to cherry pick ores as you will be eating through them far to fast. You will be stripping entire belts, probably 2-3 belts at a time just to spread out your 15 HULKS.

Multiboxing mining does stack very well compared to other activities. For example. As I said I make about 100M /hr with a 4 ship mining fleet. I also make about the same with a 4 ship mission running fleet. At least in high sec. Adding a 5th ship will add another 30M/hr to the mining fleet but only about 5M/hr to the mission running fleet. The more accounts you add the better mining looks.

Again I say you will not get near 50M per account in high sec. Sov null sec, sure, although you may attract a lot of ganker attention with such a fleet. But 50-60M/hr per account should be easy in null. In high sec the best you can hope for is 30-35M/hr per account.
zeyta102
Sun Gods
#17 - 2013-06-17 16:10:31 UTC
So null would be the way to go proper intel looking rorqual I'm going to be buying all the toons offa bazaar and with a 45b investment I could proberly set up in a back end system bubbled to hell an back on one gate with 300km worth of bubbles and spread my machs in the Belt with a diffrent overview set up so only 2 alts or so mine the same type of ore .
Tash'k Omar
Indefinite Mass
#18 - 2013-06-17 16:25:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tash'k Omar
zeyta102 wrote:
So null would be the way to go proper intel looking rorqual I'm going to be buying all the toons offa bazaar and with a 45b investment I could proberly set up in a back end system bubbled to hell an back on one gate with 300km worth of bubbles and spread my machs in the Belt with a diffrent overview set up so only 2 alts or so mine the same type of ore .


This would be the way to go. However you will want to mine in the ore anoms spawned by the ihub. Initially in the small you can put all 15 miners on the large spod roid and it will take you over an hour to complete it, but it's a good way to boost the industry level, especially now that spod isn't worthless to mine.

I have no experience in the Extra-Large and Giant grav belts since the ore composition changes, but it is generally considered most profitable to cycle the Large (Indy lvl 3). This grav belt also has extremely large rocks so switching targets will not be too much of an issue.
Ginger Barbarella
#19 - 2013-06-17 16:32:04 UTC
Can you generate enough ISK on your accounts to buy PLEX for them while still having time to actually *enjoy* Eve? Cool

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

zeyta102
Sun Gods
#20 - 2013-06-17 16:32:41 UTC
So it's viable with the null roid size?

I was then going to refine and sell cta ships or caps for my alliance to avoid the need to import in using bpos of common fleet docs and a jf to move them to system staging. An I'm guessing in null the micro management would be quite small just boosting rorq and hauling. Rorq and 10 or so macks with a 40-50m an hr for a 500m an hr
Turnover using is boxer to copy all at once
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