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Data and relic sites need guardians in null/low sec
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dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-06-17 13:16:33 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
dexington wrote:
It's because the rated and unrated ded sites are the "hard" exploration sites, relic and data sites are the noob site.


And when all combat sites can be run in t1 frig then everything is noob sites. What's your point?


There need to be sites the new players can do, even in null, so they get relic and data sites.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Jonas Staal
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-06-17 13:18:27 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
I'm new to exploration, have hacking, archaeology and covops all to 4 and I'm running sites in a cheetah with rigs for increased virus strength, and I just can't win the mini game when the loot is above average. I might as well stay in low sec for the additional effort and risk I'm taking. i'm still making reasonable amounts of money but nothing like vets are reporting for null sites.


This amazes me.

I have same skills (lower analyze skills) and no increased virus scan hacks (I think it's cohorence rigs even, not strength?). Yet the only "games" I cannot break are the ones I wouldn't be able to break with perfect skills either.

And I can complete about 95% of the 0sec sites.
Fr00b Snap
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-06-17 13:25:57 UTC
Jonas Staal wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
I'm new to exploration, have hacking, archaeology and covops all to 4 and I'm running sites in a cheetah with rigs for increased virus strength, and I just can't win the mini game when the loot is above average. I might as well stay in low sec for the additional effort and risk I'm taking. i'm still making reasonable amounts of money but nothing like vets are reporting for null sites.


This amazes me.

I have same skills (lower analyze skills) and no increased virus scan hacks (I think it's cohorence rigs even, not strength?). Yet the only "games" I cannot break are the ones I wouldn't be able to break with perfect skills either.

And I can complete about 95% of the 0sec sites.


You pretty much must-have T2 hacking equipment and cov ops or T3 ship for the extra virus strength to be able succesfully hack databanks unless you are the lucky guy who gets core on first click in every can. And there is no rigs for virus strength.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-06-17 13:29:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Jonas Staal wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
I'm new to exploration, have hacking, archaeology and covops all to 4 and I'm running sites in a cheetah with rigs for increased virus strength, and I just can't win the mini game when the loot is above average. I might as well stay in low sec for the additional effort and risk I'm taking. i'm still making reasonable amounts of money but nothing like vets are reporting for null sites.


This amazes me.

I have same skills (lower analyze skills) and no increased virus scan hacks (I think it's cohorence rigs even, not strength?). Yet the only "games" I cannot break are the ones I wouldn't be able to break with perfect skills either.

And I can complete about 95% of the 0sec sites.


i can complete a majority of cans in the sites, just not the cans with really juicy loot. those go bang nearly every time for me. it's possible i'm being unlucky but i ran into a fellow scoper yesterday who was having exactly the same experience.

oh and yeah it's coherence not strength for the rigs

forums.  serious business.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#25 - 2013-06-17 13:40:58 UTC
dexington wrote:
There need to be sites the new players can do, even in null, so they get relic and data sites.


You know damn well that the sites wern't for t1 frigs before Odyssey. I don't see you champion l1 missions (with l4 rewards) or ded1 sites (with ded4 rewards) being littered all over null. How thick does a skull have to be not to grasp whats wrong with that?
Tho i'm sure you fully grasp it, just have an agenda of your own that benefits you from the current pathetic situation.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-06-17 13:45:01 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
i can complete a majority of cans in the sites, just not the cans with really juicy loot. those go bang nearly every time for me. it's possible i'm being unlucky but i ran into a fellow scoper yesterday who was having exactly the same experience.


I have skill 4 and i think i get 50/50 on the databank cans, most of the time it depends on whether or not you pick the right area to look for the core.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-06-17 13:47:44 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
Tho i'm sure you fully grasp it, just have an agenda of your own that benefits you from the current pathetic situation.


no agenda, i just run the sites while the loot is still worth something, everyone being able to run the sites does also mean the price on the loot will drop sooner or later.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-06-17 13:56:28 UTC
dexington wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
i can complete a majority of cans in the sites, just not the cans with really juicy loot. those go bang nearly every time for me. it's possible i'm being unlucky but i ran into a fellow scoper yesterday who was having exactly the same experience.


I have skill 4 and i think i get 50/50 on the databank cans, most of the time it depends on whether or not you pick the right area to look for the core.


yeah it seems like it's completely random which is sort of frustrating. apart from picking the right path, the only other consideration is whether you risk leaving defense subsystems active or data caches closed. not much to it really.

i wish they'd stolen the paradroid game instead, i have brainstem skills for that.

forums.  serious business.
Hrian d'Chick
Hrian Trading
#29 - 2013-06-17 20:19:19 UTC
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
I don't understand it, either. Could wear a tinfoil hat, actually, and make up nefariuos motives of nullsec powerblocs to 'entertain' their membership.

I never for a moment lied as of why I would like to see this changed. Right now, its way too easy for pugs, making my life harder. I can adapt, 99% of the playerbase can't, so if they make it harder, i will have the upper hand.

That making things harder would benefit me, does not yet mean that I'm not right though.

dexington wrote:

Are you mad because new players can train for covert ops, and compete with old players?

Adding "guardians" to the sites would only hurt the new players, older players with still clear them with easy flying the notorious T3 with covert ops alt setup.

Mad? No. Don't like it? Yea. I have no problem with scanning being more accessible, but there still should be a difficulty curve. Right now, there's none.

I don't particularly care about who the change would hurt, as long as the change makes sense and is for the benefit of the game. In such a complex system, every time you tweak something, someone gets hurt. Thats no argument against change.

Tzar Sinak wrote:
I really like not having rats in the sites because it brings many unarmed covops/T1: I run a light missile launcher and a scram on my covop. After all another covop/T1 in a site is just another "can" to be hacked. :)

A fair point.. In fact I was entertaining the idea of just fitting a pvp strat cruiser and instead of hacking the sites, i could hack the covopses trying to run the sites.

That - while it would be moderately fun and prolly also profitable - would not solve the problem at hand though, which is the imbalance the system suffers from.

dexington wrote:

Scanning and hacking should be the most important skills for data and relic sites, not the amount of sp you have i missile/gunnery skills or whether or not you can fly a T2 or T3 cruiser.

In this I agree completely. Except that I think low sec sites should require a compromise in ship fitting, as in they should require the fitting of some defensive and offensive modules, while null sec should require a dedicated combat ship to clear the site before it can be hacked. This does not invalidate what you said, merely supplements it.

Fr00b Snap wrote:

According to CCP devblog they wanted to lower entry level for exploration profession sites. In this light Odyssey expansion was success beyond all dreams.

CCP in his eternal wisdom has once again managed to overshoot the goal, not by a few kilometers this time, but several light years.
Hrian d'Chick
Hrian Trading
#30 - 2013-06-17 20:19:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrian d'Chick
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
I'm new to exploration, have hacking, archaeology and covops all to 4 and I'm running sites in a cheetah with rigs for increased virus strength, and I just can't win the mini game when the loot is above average. I might as well stay in low sec for the additional effort and risk I'm taking. i'm still making reasonable amounts of money but nothing like vets are reporting for null sites.

The mini game has some depth to it. With the proper strategy and style you can open about 80-90% of even the hardest 0.0 sites. That with T1 modules and lvl4 skills. I averaged 1 red core loss every 3 sites or so.

Fr00b Snap wrote:

You pretty much must-have T2 hacking equipment and cov ops or T3 ship for the extra virus strength to be able succesfully hack databanks unless you are the lucky guy who gets core on first click in every can. And there is no rigs for virus strength.

Thats bull.. You just need to learn how the mini game maps are laid out, the proper strategy to use, like which way to go, how to use the powerups properly, etc.

seriously, hacking / archeology is like taking candy from a baby right now... You can pretty much just throw cash at it to make up for any lack of skills be that in character or in person. The only advantage being smart about it gives you right now is an even lower entry barrier, but since there's no barrier to speak of, there's no advantage worth mentioning.
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