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I'd like to see tags4faction the way tags4sec works

Author
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#161 - 2013-06-16 11:34:45 UTC
Am I too late to be blocked too? Just curious...
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#162 - 2013-06-16 11:38:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Brainless Bimbo
Harry Forever wrote:
Brainless Bimbo wrote:


I put you on ignore now, read through your first comment and you sure will understand why, you may as well rethink your character name next time, yours has a racist understatement, for that alone you should get banned

ps: if you want to understand a thread you need to read the details not only the header



Please explain to me and the other forum readers how my name is as you portray?

reading your posts all i see is a self entitled spoilt brat whining that he can´t have everything his own way

Harry Forever wrote:
honestly the NPC Faction Standing hinders you to play the game like you want to play it, it feels like a cage put on the endless possibilities the game has to offer, for me it feels like the biggest drawback


The underlined part, you see it, you are complaining about making a choice and not liking the consequences, its a game, they all have rule sets, yes its a sandbox, but a sandBOX has limitations, that´s why its not a beach, you personally just don´t like the mechanic and the ways to counter it, well you made the informed choice did you not, so HTFU

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....

Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#163 - 2013-06-16 12:23:28 UTC
Dun'Gal wrote:
Am I too late to be blocked too? Just curious...


its never too late to use the power of bock Cool
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#164 - 2013-06-16 12:26:03 UTC
Darius Brannock wrote:
I think that we should leave COSMOS agents out of this discussion. They can raise faction standing above zero. I think it is a valid point to think about a mechanic like "tags for security to zero" that would work in a similar fashion for faction standings where the mechanic could not raise standings above zero and could be used over and over.

Perhaps this could be achieved in creative ways. For example, having special npcs in FW complexes/missions in losec that drop the required tags. Ideas such as this would maybe pull more people into FW while giving others the opportunity to get out and leave the war behind. This kind of mechanic could extend to pirate factions as well where they would take those tags for standing that dropped from the special empire npcs to raise a standing to a pirate faction to zero.

Maybe instead of looking for ways to humiliate the OP or discredit him, we could discuss how such a mechanic could be made interesting and create more content?


yea that would be something cool, if it makes the level 1 grinding go away I'm all for it, encouraging people to play factional warfare to gain the tags even better, i think some do not try it yet especially new players because they are worried of the negative impact, did see a lot of comments about it on the forums
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#165 - 2013-06-16 12:48:13 UTC
Darius Brannock wrote:
Maybe instead of looking for ways to humiliate the OP or discredit him, we could discuss how such a mechanic could be made interesting and create more content?

Maybe instead of the OP ignoring advice and blocking people who disagree with him, he can explain how the existing solutions are inadequate (and no “I don't wanna” does not make something inadequate) and how making it easier to escape the consequences of one's choices will in any way be better for the game.

Oggat wrote:
He had a valid debate.
The fact that he put it in GD and got trolled in to the ground is just par for EVE forum.
Not really, no. The problem is that he doesn't want to discuss the topic and sees anyone suggesting that maybe he's going about it all wrong as a personal insult. His choice not to engage in actual debate invalidates any debate that there might have been. He wants agreement, not a debate.

The fact that he tried to post an “agree with me or I'll stomp my feet and pout”-thread in General Discussion is what makes people point out that he's a troll, nothing else.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#166 - 2013-06-16 13:03:24 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
If discouraging players from interacting is not a good case...well then there is no discussion.
It would be a good case. It's just that it's not what's going on here. The game mechanics do nothing of the sort. If anything, they encourage interaction because one of the solutions available to the OP's problem is to rely on other people for certain services.

Quote:
If tags4standing inherently makes gaining faction standing easier then tags4sec has also been made easier.
No. You're forgetting the underlying activity that generates the (supposed) needs for the two. Tags-for-sec doesn't make sec grinding easier because you still have to grind to make use of it: either you grind rats for tags or you grind ISK for tags. When you start your trip back to Sec -2, you have neither because you've blown up people, which yields neither tags nor ISK.

With tags-for-standing, you don't have to grind to make use of it: either you grind rats for tags (which you probably already picked up as part of the NPC killing that gave you the bad sec standing) or you grind ISK to buy tags (ISK you definitely already earned as part of killing NPCs). The grind that you're supposed to do to get back to neutral standings has already happened as part of the activity that led you to negative standings — it is skipped. The process is made hellalot easier.

Again, the “punishment” for PvP is enforced PvE. Tags-for-sec does not change this. To make the same thing work with standings, you'd have to reverse it, or it's simply a mechanic to outright skip that punishment. So the “punishment” for PvE would have to be enforced PvP — not tags or ISK or anything else you could pick up in the process of the PvE itself.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#167 - 2013-06-16 13:31:05 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Then there would be no consequences for pve activities outside of "I might get ganked for my shinies".


yea i know, however it just feels like it hinders me to play the game to its full potential, maybe they should make it possible to pay down the negative standing with ISK, I don't know... mabe also reduce the power of the navy ships so you just have to fight in negative empire space but not get killed immediatley...


Training to fly a Titan takes more than a day, and is therefor hindering me from playing the game to it's full potential. CCP should change this!

Ok, turing off the Sarcasm, EVE is about CHOICES and CONSEQUENCES. Want to go into another faction's space, don't trash yous standings to them in the 1st place, simple as that.

See here "more subs" people, this is what you're want more of, people mentally unsuited to play EVE demanding changes....
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#168 - 2013-06-16 13:39:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Jenn aSide wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Then there would be no consequences for pve activities outside of "I might get ganked for my shinies".


yea i know, however it just feels like it hinders me to play the game to its full potential, maybe they should make it possible to pay down the negative standing with ISK, I don't know... mabe also reduce the power of the navy ships so you just have to fight in negative empire space but not get killed immediatley...


Training to fly a Titan takes more than a day, and is therefor hindering me from playing the game to it's full potential. CCP should change this!

Ok, turing off the Sarcasm, EVE is about CHOICES and CONSEQUENCES. Want to go into another faction's space, don't trash yous standings to them in the 1st place, simple as that.

See here "more subs" people, this is what you're want more of, people mentally unsuited to play EVE demanding changes....


god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#169 - 2013-06-16 13:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Harry Forever wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Then there would be no consequences for pve activities outside of "I might get ganked for my shinies".


yea i know, however it just feels like it hinders me to play the game to its full potential, maybe they should make it possible to pay down the negative standing with ISK, I don't know... mabe also reduce the power of the navy ships so you just have to fight in negative empire space but not get killed immediatley...


Training to fly a Titan takes more than a day, and is therefor hindering me from playing the game to it's full potential. CCP should change this!

Ok, turing off the Sarcasm, EVE is about CHOICES and CONSEQUENCES. Want to go into another faction's space, don't trash yous standings to them in the 1st place, simple as that.

See here "more subs" people, this is what you're want more of, people mentally unsuited to play EVE demanding changes....


god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change again



That's classic. YOU'RE the one who wants things made easier but it's the rest of us who are wrong and should leave lol. And how could I repeat the same sentence when this is my 1st post in this thread lol?

The truth is that you (and people like you) want CCP to insulate you from your bad in game choices and ignorance. That's just weak minded.
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#170 - 2013-06-16 13:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Jenn aSide wrote:


you did not even take the time to read through the thread in detail, its not about making things easy, its the opposite, the level 1 mission grinding is boring to bring up standings, thats why we want another mechanic which is more challanging

you just repeat what others say, nothing new, just standart ignorance without even looking at what was said
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#171 - 2013-06-16 14:37:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Harry Forever wrote:
you did not even take the time to read through the thread in detail, its not about making things easy, its the opposite, the level 1 mission grinding is boring to bring up standings, thats why we want another mechanic which is more challanging
You're confusing “easy” with “simple”. You can deny it as much as you like, but the simply fact remains: you do want to make it easier; you do want to remove the resistance you've come up against; you do want to skip the penalties for the bad choices you've made.

Quote:
you just repeat what others say, nothing new, just standart ignorance without even looking at what was said
In other words, you have no idea what he just said. You just keep repeating the same lies over and over again. Why are you so afraid of discussing the topic? Why are you so unable to provide any kind of argument for change? Do you even have any?
Raven Solaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2013-06-16 15:42:07 UTC
Wouldn't this cause issues with people flip-flopping between militias in FW to always be on the winning side?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#173 - 2013-06-16 19:43:09 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
but thats the point it does not make sense to play level 1 missions for hours if you have a high trained character


It makes perfect sense, it's a consequence for their choices.

Harry Forever wrote:
people don't want that, they want a different way to fix the standings, maybe a challanging way but not boring level 1 missions for hours


If they don't want to do that then there's nothing forcing them to actually do it. If they feel the need to fix their standings then running L1 missions is the consequence of of bad choices they made previously.

Harry Forever wrote:
the plan just shows that the faction standing mechanic has issues for a lot of players, therefore it needs to be adjusted, anyway, it will happen if you want it or not


Apparently a lot of players make bad choices that they regret later on. Adjusting it would remove the consequence altogether.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#174 - 2013-06-16 19:46:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Harry Forever wrote:
god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change


You haven't managed to explain why our argument is invalid beyond you not wanting consequences for your actions & blocking people who actually provide very valid reasoning against your suggestion. You're suggesting CCP remove the consequences for bad pve choices & we're telling you why that is a bad idea.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#175 - 2013-06-16 19:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Mallak Azaria wrote:


It makes perfect sense, it's a consequence for their choices.



you only know that sentence right? like a cd who got stuck, spinning the same thing again and again
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#176 - 2013-06-16 19:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change


You haven't managed to explain why our argument is invalid beyond you not wanting consequences for your actions & blocking people who actually provide very valid reasoning against your suggestion. You're suggesting CCP remove the consequences for bad pve choices & we're telling you why that is a bad idea.


hey dude, just read through the things I mentioned a hundred times already, consequences are fine, there just needs another mechanic to fix it, got that now? can not be that hard, please move along if you don't get it! the bricks of my house are more flexible then you
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#177 - 2013-06-16 20:05:16 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change


You haven't managed to explain why our argument is invalid beyond you not wanting consequences for your actions & blocking people who actually provide very valid reasoning against your suggestion. You're suggesting CCP remove the consequences for bad pve choices & we're telling you why that is a bad idea.


hey dude, just read through the things I mentioned a hundred times already, consequences are fine, there just needs another mechanic to fix it, got that now? can not be that hard, please move along if you don't get it!


You're the only one not getting it. It's probably because the idea of responsibility is foreign to you.

There doesn't need to be "another mechanic to deal with it", there should be players smart enough to STOP doing what they are doing BEFORE it gets so bad that the only thing you can do is grind lvl 1 missions. If they aren't smart enogh to stop digging themselves huge standings holes, they SHOULD "suffer" for it.

What you want is an easier way to avoid these necessary painful consequneces, and when people (who are obviously smarter than you when it comes to the game) tell you it's a horribly bad idea, you act as if it's there fault, rather than your fault for not understanding you idea is bad.... All of which reinforces the fact that you have no sense of personal responsiblity.
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#178 - 2013-06-16 20:07:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Jenn aSide wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
god you just repeat the same sentence over and over again like robots, people like you should just leave eve because you are hindering the developement of the game, go buy a gamboy and play some old mario, those games never change


You haven't managed to explain why our argument is invalid beyond you not wanting consequences for your actions & blocking people who actually provide very valid reasoning against your suggestion. You're suggesting CCP remove the consequences for bad pve choices & we're telling you why that is a bad idea.


hey dude, just read through the things I mentioned a hundred times already, consequences are fine, there just needs another mechanic to fix it, got that now? can not be that hard, please move along if you don't get it!


You're the only one not getting it. It's probably because the idea of responsibility is foreign to you.

There doesn't need to be "another mechanic to deal with it", there should be players smart enough to STOP doing what they are doing BEFORE it gets so bad that the only thing you can do is grind lvl 1 missions. If they aren't smart enogh to stop digging themselves huge standings holes, they SHOULD "suffer" for it.

What you want is an easier way to avoid these necessary painful consequneces, and when people (who are obviously smarter than you when it comes to the game) tell you it's a horribly bad idea, you act as if it's there fault, rather than your fault for not understanding you idea is bad.... All of which reinforces the fact that you have no sense of personal responsiblity.


no, i just don't want the game to be as annyoing as you, therefore no level 1 missions for faction standing repair but a more challanging mechanic

i know you want those level 1 missions like you want me to explain the same thing for hours, but there are people who want a better challange, because this one is getting boring -> blocked
Oggat
The Adam's Family
#179 - 2013-06-16 20:12:34 UTC
For what it's worth OP, I've been where you are right now.

Simply reply with copy and paste "I'd like to see tags4faction the way tags4Sec works".
No matter how they twist it, spin it, troll it bait it, just spam the same one line. I'm sure it will get the thread locked but you won't feel like a dog bone being tossed around a kennel.

It's pretty easy to see who the ISD and Dev alts are here.
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#180 - 2013-06-16 20:16:28 UTC
Oggat wrote:
For what it's worth OP, I've been where you are right now.

Simply reply with copy and paste "I'd like to see tags4faction the way tags4Sec works".
No matter how they twist it, spin it, troll it bait it, just spam the same one line. I'm sure it will get the thread locked but you won't feel like a dog bone being tossed around a kennel.

It's pretty easy to see who the ISD and Dev alts are here.


my tactic was to make them give up :) but you maybe right, thats an unstoppable troll invasion :D