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CCP- what r you guys thinking towards marauders? not finished stats, just general role change

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Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#301 - 2013-07-07 22:42:22 UTC
This has become personal attacks and criticisms. Very disappointed in you.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#302 - 2013-07-07 23:09:26 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
* eats popcorn* So... anytime you Gent's going to stop Arguing over PVE content or the lack of Interesting PVE content.. and back to actually Discussing... Marauders or the future of them. While I do know in the end you both might wander back to the ship itself. I fear it might occur AFTER the changes Go live and all Relevant Conversation about them that might occur will be to late. But as one of them Slightly More PVE vs PVP players.. I would like to see them Rats more Intense. Would rather See my Rattle, Nightmare, Or Kronos actually Get Damaged Instead of me just ya know, Load FOF or Drones into a ship, Watch Ani's Stream, check my indy alt mining Ice.. and glancing at the Level 4 occasionally... I would as others have mentioned (not many) Like to see the PVP aspect of it rise up remarkably.. Especially for a T2 Battleship being built with the best technology available at the time.. to act that way... Just my two Cents..

I do like the mentioned possibility someone Said of a Jump Drive on it.. Let it get behind enemy lines and actually Cause chaos. That Idea I do enjoy.. Kind of like the Big Nastier Brother of a BOP. Just without the Cloak.

Agreed.

Daniel Plain, I yield no point in my debate with you on missions, as you have not convinced me the effort is either not possible or not worth the interest of players.
I only admit to a detail I never contested, that being the original mission content should be left in the game for those who, like you, simply have no interest in changing it.

As to suggestions, one of mine got paved over by this debate.



What about a change to enable a method that would encourage solo unsupported attacks?
(Of course these could be used in groups too, but this would not require them as much as other methods)

Make the Marauder truly live up to it's name. It would become popular to use it in ways that would be suicidal with other ships.

Proposal:
Once per day, the Marauder is able to execute an emergency jump, to a location preset by a bookmark.

The range of this jump to be modified by the pilot's jump drive calibration skill, and is the same as the BLOPs BS.

To be specific, this would not be wise to use for attack if it would also be needed for defense.
(It would drain 80% of cap, so using this as an attack would risky)
How is this different? In the event the cap is below 80%, it still jumps, but it arrives at the preset BM with zero cap.

The once per day is a balance point, it could be done more often if dev balance found it practical.

This will obviously encourage wilder behavior in null and low, security hits will still happen where applicable.
This obviously may be blocked from use in high sec.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#303 - 2013-07-07 23:11:49 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
This has become personal attacks and criticisms. Very disappointed in you.

My apologies for my participation in this.

Consider it ended on that derailing topic.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#304 - 2013-07-07 23:32:20 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Daniel Plain, I yield no point in my debate with you on missions, as you have not convinced me the effort is either not possible or not worth the interest of players.
it's funny how i have discredited all of your essential claims and you have not come close to addressing any of mine (except some vague handwaving), yet you get to not yield anything.
Quote:
[once a day jump drive stuff]

the basic idea sounds nice, but i would make the emergency jump even more prohibiting. something like a 1minute cooldown on your warp drive, target lock and cap regen comes to mind. also, obviously it should be an attribute of the character (like the jump clone cooldown) rather than a specific ship hull.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#305 - 2013-07-08 00:07:49 UTC
I really think that if people want to design the marauders around doing PVE that we fix the PVE first before specifically changing ships to be like them.

New level 4/5's with a low number of powerful npcs ergo simulating a form of PVP would allow CCP to remain balancing the game towards this creation/destruction ideology without requiring (hopefully) hundreds of man hours.
Alizebeth Phoenix
Hydra Inc.
#306 - 2013-07-12 17:44:26 UTC
time to bring this up...

CCP i wanna know noooow!
It's been some weeks, you can tell me. I won't tell anybody else, i promise *cross*
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#307 - 2013-07-12 19:49:33 UTC
I don't think CCP has a patch or solution to Marauders because they have not released anything at all. No one keeps a secret that well unless there isn't one.

I personally hate Marauders being brought up because nothing negatively pulls at my heart more then the most overall broken ships in the game.

I'd be happy with a T1 haul with identical bonuses and grids that also have a + 100% to weapon fitting and -99% to tractors/ salvages fitting w noctis bonuses of course. It's unepic but I don't see it breaking the game.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#308 - 2013-07-12 19:55:44 UTC
I find it depressing that the ultimate battleship, or at least what you would expect the class marauder to be seen as, is so out of place outside of mission running.

I am not suggesting it be tweaked into the next FOTM, but at least something that belongs in PvP doctrines at some level.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#309 - 2013-07-13 05:22:10 UTC
If I was going to redesign the marauders I'd make it a boat that can't be be remote repped and is designed for death, it's own and those it will bring down with it.

Take a beating and give a beating as the solo pilot goes kamikaze deep into enemy space.

Taking a ship like that out would be a test of a pilots individual skills untainted by fleet support.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#310 - 2013-07-13 09:30:21 UTC
Can we just address the ships that need fixing (HAC, Black Ops, Marauders), stop nerf'ing others (T3) and maybe get back to... oh, actually new content for a change?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
David Kir
Errantry Armaments
Empire of Decadence.
#311 - 2013-07-13 13:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: David Kir
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Can we just address the ships that need fixing (HAC, Black Ops, Marauders), stop nerf'ing others (T3) and maybe get back to... oh, actually new content for a change?


New content?

You mean starting to release actual new, shiny, amazing content, not balance patches and fixes?
New gameplay mechnics?
New ingame items, instead of renaming old ones?
NEW STUFF?

ARE YOU MAD?

EDIT: I'd start a "bring back the jesus features" thread, but most of this forum's posters are so obsessed with stuff being "unbalanced" that I'd get lynched.
MOAR SHINIEZ PLS!

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#312 - 2013-07-13 13:21:22 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Can we just address the ships that need fixing (HAC, Black Ops, Marauders), stop nerf'ing others (T3) and maybe get back to... oh, actually new content for a change?


New content?

You mean starting to release actual new, shiny, amazing content, not balance patches and fixes?
New gameplay mechnics?
New ingame items, instead of renaming old ones?
NEW STUFF?

ARE YOU MAD?

EDIT: I'd start a "bring back the jesus features" thread, but most of this forum's posters are so obsessed with stuff being "unbalanced" that I'd get lynched.
MOAR SHINIEZ PLS!


Stark raving MAD. But quite certain I'm not alone...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
kerradeph
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2013-07-14 09:25:22 UTC
I tend to agree that having something that can appropriately maraud would be nice. maybe warp disruption nullification as a hull bonus?

something that's designed to be capable of taking on any type of target without significant weakness by having equal resists across the board on their primary tank type?

something that's capable of moving relatively unimpeded by having a jump drive? an advanced warp drive that warps far faster than normal BSs? warping to locations closer than 150km? being able to stop mid warp to allow someone to fly past without noticing?

fleet operations ship that is designed to fly with other marauders? improved RR to and from marauders, but not to other ships?

combat flag ship that can fit 3 command links, but no command processors. but it gets a flat 5% to any links used? keep everything else pretty much the same otherwise. (this sounds like what they might be doing with eh command ships, so we'll have to wait and see)

maybe a fleet support ship that can fit something to counter warp disruption bubbles?


with a ship like this that has been falling behind into a niche that's no longer so much of a niche, maybe it's time for a complete remodel of its capabilities?
when given something that *could* be this advanced and unique, why not make it borderline absurdly so?
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#314 - 2013-07-14 12:54:30 UTC
Wonder how close those marauders will be to what the current description promises :|
Cyrus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#315 - 2013-07-14 17:01:54 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
I find it depressing that the ultimate battleship, or at least what you would expect the class marauder to be seen as, is so out of place outside of mission running.

I am not suggesting it be tweaked into the next FOTM, but at least something that belongs in PvP doctrines at some level.


You do realize that the primary purpose of a marauder is PVE right? That's the whole point of the low sensor strenth... to make them out of PVP.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#316 - 2013-07-14 17:27:31 UTC
Cyrus wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
I find it depressing that the ultimate battleship, or at least what you would expect the class marauder to be seen as, is so out of place outside of mission running.

I am not suggesting it be tweaked into the next FOTM, but at least something that belongs in PvP doctrines at some level.


You do realize that the primary purpose of a marauder is PVE right? That's the whole point of the low sensor strenth... to make them out of PVP.

Stating the obvious result of an improvised limit...

Ok, lets consider the design perspective.

The concern that skill demands and ISK cost was not going to be enough to keep the Marauder from becoming a FOTM ship, resulted in the sensor nerf you mention.
It has nothing to do with the ship being designed for PvE, and everything to do with fears it would imbalance PvP.
Once they realized the sensor nerf neutered the ship for PvP too effectively, they tried to compensate by making it more useful in PvE.
The design being compromised was not commented on, since devs want to promote a positive view of game aspects, not that they made a ship overly limited at one area.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#317 - 2013-07-14 17:58:51 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Can we just address the ships that need fixing (HAC, Black Ops, Marauders), stop nerf'ing others (T3) and maybe get back to... oh, actually new content for a change?
Well there's TONS of other crap that still needs fixing besides ships. POSes, sov, industry, ramifications of easy logistics, etc. New stuff is shiny and fun, but it just adds more garbage that needs to be fixed later, or lapses into the limbo zone of shiite that isn't fully addressed. Fix most, if not all, of the old broken crap first, and then move on to new shiny. Granted, to stay a relevant and interesting game, those fixes need to come ALOT quicker than they have so far. Three more years of fixing old mechanics isn't gonna cut it.

(zomg EvE is dying!!!!1111oneoneeleventy)
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#318 - 2013-07-14 22:38:31 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
Well there's TONS of other crap that still needs fixing besides ships. POSes, sov, industry, ramifications of easy logistics, etc. New stuff is shiny and fun, but it just adds more garbage that needs to be fixed later, or lapses into the limbo zone of shiite that isn't fully addressed. Fix most, if not all, of the old broken crap first, and then move on to new shiny. Granted, to stay a relevant and interesting game, those fixes need to come ALOT quicker than they have so far. Three more years of fixing old mechanics isn't gonna cut it.


That's exactly my point. Set a 6-month target and fix this stuff already. Stop dicking around with DUST514 and make EVE the game it should be.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#319 - 2013-07-15 02:32:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
I wonder if you could do something like give them flat-out pwnmobile bonuses to the ship itself, in exchange for stiff penalties to any kind of remote assistance, including fleet boosts and remote reps. They could have some really unorthodox bonuses: perhaps they would be as difficult to scan down as a ship with a much smaller signature, or something like that.

They should remain active tankers, just because that emphasizes the "endurance" aspect of the ship.

The goal would be to have a ship that is capable of going deep into enemy territory in the broad sense, not just in the 'deadspace pocket full of rats' sense.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Sh'iriin
Perkone
Caldari State
#320 - 2013-07-15 17:03:08 UTC
Marauders get a new module wich allows them to hack the mater beam of moon miners by using the new odyssey introduced hacking-mini-game. After a successful hack, they redirect a certain % of the current cycle from the moon miner to the marauders' bay.

Marauders get a new specialized drone bay with bonus for salvage drones.

Marauders get a bonus on the dropchance of loot from ships they have the final blow on.

Marauders get a new system that allows them to destroy stations when they're below 1% structure.

Marauders get special emp weapons that allow them to totally shutdown hostile ships and board them, kicking out the pod of the pilot.

Marauders and Blackops form the new Specops BS class. One gets the combat and one the attack role.

.......